League players are strange people

I think the one thing more annoying (and I believe much more prevalent) than the sandbaggers is the guys who lose matches and then kind of go around implying/joking they didn't care and/or were sandbagging when they just lost because they are not that good. I see that a lot.
 
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krupa said:
Great post.

The closest poolroom to me is an hour drive but I can stay in town and play in leagues 4 nights a week. If the leagues were to disappear tomorrow, how many of those players would still come out and play? Damn few.
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I have noticed this too. It used to bug me cuz these players will all year long complain about how they got "unlucky", didn't get "roles", and lost focus when they loose a match. But, that is going to happen cuz these players never put practice time on table other than the league season.
Some players are just "league" players all they want to do is perform better in league than the year before and there is nothing wrong with it. You can walk to your local pool room and you will see the same league players playing the same league with same handicap (give or take + - 1). And there is nothing wrong with it, pool is a great game. The thing that's wrong is when a league system has various loopholes in it and some people exploit them for short term benefits. That right there just takes all the fun out.
 
Some people are more ambitious then other, here is a situation i had bout two weeks ago.

My fellow team player only had to pocket the black ball to win his match, on that moment the other player took a ball out of the pocket a put it on the table, my fellow player was disturbed and missed an easy black. the other player excused him by saying he only did it for fun, not to disturb him, my teammate didn't make a big issue of it. but in the rules it says that the other guy lost the match by taking the ball out the pocket. the other player runs the table and has a point. after the match another team mate of mine started arguing about that one point...

it was our player on the table who should reacted if he wanted that point or resettle at the black ball, he didn't, so in my opinion the point was for the other team...
and i found the reaction after the match of our team member a little over the top, i have a total different view on our team member now ...
we play in a little league, nothing to win or brag about, i just didn't understand his reaction...
conclusion, even people who you think you know can show odd behavior...

kind regards
 
I suppose i'm one of the lucky ones. I play on an APA team that has a group of like-minded individuals. We do our best week in and week out. We also have a fairly regular practice schedule. Of course we see teams dump matches, sandbag, so on and so forth but that is their prerogative. The main reason I play is not for trips to vegas or tournament winnings...I play because I enjoy being part of organized competition. We all compete at something when we are young...baseball, football, basketball, hockey, scrabble...whatever. Now that I am older I still have that urge to compete week in and week out. APA provides me with the satisfaction of being able to play in an organized and competitive environment...if anyone wants to sandbag or complain about sandbagging they should probably ask themselves if they are playing for the right reasons.
 
pogmothoin said:
There are many threads on here that bemoan the death of pool and what can be done to save it. Yet whenever a thread about leagues come up people tend to kill them on here.

From where I sit leagues seem to be pretty successful. Once, twice, three times a week many people go to their local bar or pool hall and plunk down their cash to have some fun.

People are just messed up no matter what the sport. You have your cheaters and whiners, you have some really terrible players, you have some very good players but overall what you see is a microcosm of our society.

I think that leagues, whether it be APA, NAPA, TAP or any of the others, deserve the support of the top level players and anyone interested in seeing pool succeed. It's where the masses are, the very market that needs to be engaged for the industry to grow.
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For the record, I was just being honest about APA league. I've praised the fact that they bring in more new players than do any other leagues, to my knowledge.

There are a dozen different leagues here now in Des Moines, as it seems no one is perfectly happy with existing leagues so they start a new one. I've played in league regularly for over 25 years now. I love league pool....AND it is the only successful thing goin' right now in the pool world.

Jeff Livingston
 
Ken_4fun said:
I was at a tournament once and gambling cheap ($5 game 9 ball), and beat a guy pretty soundly. I cant remember exactly but it was definately less than $50 total. We were playing even on a bar box and I was really playing to warm up for the tournament.

I think I was a SL3 or SL4 and this guy I was beating was at SL5.

Nobody knew me but they looked up the SL, for the calcutta and when they announced my name and my SL, this guy I beat started crying like a baby that I was sandbagging or whatever. So I had to play as 5.

The biggest deal was I started playing in a bigger town (Springfield, MO) and he was playing in burg where their handicaps were higher because of less players.

To me that pretty well typified league players....

Ken
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This right here is what everyone in a league needs to remember. Your handicap is only relative to the group of people you are playing with on a regular basis. Therefore a rating in one location does not correlate to another because they may have either a stronger or weaker pool of players as a whole.
 
Notice most of these stories seem to be Apa. No surprise. I don't Incounter any of this in bca and acs but a ton in Apa. I write it off to the vast majority of players being newer pool players and inexperienced to leagues. The cockiest players I deal with our mid level Apa players.
 
I've never played in a league, I've considered doing it. After reading a lot of the posts here, I might as well just continue playing with my friends on our home tables. But then again, I might wanna check it out for myself first and then make my own decision.
 
pogmothoin said:
There are many threads on here that bemoan the death of pool and what can be done to save it. Yet whenever a thread about leagues come up people tend to kill them on here.

From where I sit leagues seem to be pretty successful. Once, twice, three times a week many people go to their local bar or pool hall and plunk down their cash to have some fun.

People are just messed up no matter what the sport. You have your cheaters and whiners, you have some really terrible players, you have some very good players but overall what you see is a microcosm of our society.

I think that leagues, whether it be APA, NAPA, TAP or any of the others, deserve the support of the top level players and anyone interested in seeing pool succeed. It's where the masses are, the very market that needs to be engaged for the industry to grow.
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Good observation and points made... Leagues definitely play an important role in growing pool and introducing the masses. And handicapping ensures that lower ranked players keep interest and stick around season after season. And the rules apply the same for all players.

In my case, I just wish I had joined that straight pool league to begin with... Instead, I jumped back into APA, knowing what to expect. Shame on me. LOL
 
DAVE_M said:
I moved to another town, that is big on APA 8-ball & 9-ball. I decided to join in the league; For fun of course, playing 3's and 4's isn't exactly thrilling money matches. The captain of the team badgered me every night to sandbag, which I did not. Trying to cheat in a trophy league is stupid and a waste of effort and time. Anyways, I went from a SL3, to a SL4, to a SL5, and finished the session 7-2.

I found another team to play with, because I was tired of the "league player" and sandbagging crap. When the captain found out, the dude flips out, calls me a traitor and says never to talk to him again. Are all league players little nitty ninnies like that? I hope not.

I was told once from someone on these forums, "If you're in a league for money and trophies, you're in it for the wrong reason."

Maybe I should start wearing my APA patches, pocket chalker, and neon glove? :rotflmao1:
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After my last league experience which ended up badly due to one of the the 'captains' on the team. I don't wish to play leagues again anytime soon. We had two captains sort of, one decided he did not like me, so that was that. I played my arse off for them and got screwed in the end. Now I am content to play non handicapped tournaments, (handicapped ones are just like leagues) when and if I feel like it. No more BS, No more I have to win for the 'team'... If I EVER play in a league again it would be on my terms and for fun only.. The last team was all about winning at all cost and was ridiculously full of pressure to win every match. The funny thing was all you ever win is this cheap plastic trophy, I tossed all mine into the recycle bin.. Bye Bye!!
 
Dave,
My son who has never played pool competitively except on Tuesday nights at Buffalo Billiards in Metairie is getting together with some of his pool friends and forming a team. My son has never played in a pool leagues and all of the guys on the team think like you. None of them are going to sandbag. You'd be welcome on the team if you are interested.

I won't be playing on the team. For the most part they are all about your age. Most have only been playing for a year or two but one guy plays pretty sporty.

The problem is that we are at a loss to decide which leagues would be the best to start in. I was thinking that if they play one session in the APA they will move them up faster than Usain Bolt and then they could go on to other leagues.

Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Dave,
My son who has never played pool competitively except on Tuesday nights at Buffalo Billiards in Metairie is getting together with some of his pool friends and forming a team. My son has never played in a pool leagues and all of the guys on the team think like you. None of them are going to sandbag. You'd be welcome on the team if you are interested.

I won't be playing on the team. For the most part they are all about your age. Most have only been playing for a year or two but one guy plays pretty sporty.

The problem is that we are at a loss to decide which leagues would be the best to start in. I was thinking that if they play one session in the APA they will move them up faster than Usain Bolt and then they could go on to other leagues.

Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?

JoeyA
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Because league experiences vary based on the people in it, I'm going to confine my comments to the structure...

I really like my NAPA league.

We play no-limit (skill-wise) lagger's choice so on any given week, you may play 8, 9 or 10 ball. The rules are mostly BCA with a couple of small tweaks (e.g., 9-ball is slop, but you do have to call the 9 except on the break.). Also, there are only three matches a week (5-man teams) so we start about 6:30 and are done by 9.

We don't have free trips to Vegas but there are a lot of ways to qualify for the National tournament. I haven't been to it yet (I'm going for the first time this year) but I've heard good things about it from some friends who have.
 
JoeyA said:
Dave,
My son who has never played pool competitively except on Tuesday nights at Buffalo Billiards in Metairie is getting together with some of his pool friends and forming a team. My son has never played in a pool leagues and all of the guys on the team think like you. None of them are going to sandbag. You'd be welcome on the team if you are interested.

I won't be playing on the team. For the most part they are all about your age. Most have only been playing for a year or two but one guy plays pretty sporty.

The problem is that we are at a loss to decide which leagues would be the best to start in. I was thinking that if they play one session in the APA they will move them up faster than Usain Bolt and then they could go on to other leagues.

Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?

JoeyA
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I appreciate the offer Joey! However, I'm up in Covington right now, possibly permanently. I'm still driving to New Orleans everyday for work, though.

I know that the APA is still strong out in New Orleans. The BCA was going well a few years ago, but haven't been much into it since then. There are a slew of in-house leagues to play in down that way (including 8-ball, 9-ball, and even one hole).
 
JoeyA said:
..Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?
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APA night can be a fun night and good for cutting your teeth on pool competition, and they may really enjoy the APA and stick with it.

Personally, I'd recommend they seek out a league where you have to at least call the ball and pocket, not just when shooting the 8...
 
APA League operators

If the APA league operators are doing their job, 95% of the sandbaggers will just be re-rated. If they dont do their job, everyone suffers from the cheats
 
You got unlucky. I played on multiple teams in APA, BCA, and VNEA.
In almost all of them, there was zero pressure to sandbag.

A couple of years ago I had one or two teammates casually suggest
"maybe we should lose a couple of matches? Just so we can make numbers?
we're having trouble with handicap."

I told one that I felt that lacked integrity. Several weeks later, another (who was a little drunk
and probably just making excuses) claimed he lost on purpose.
I told him that's not what our team's about and if I ever suspect he's doing that,
one of us is off the team and I'd also report him.

We squabbled a bit but later he accepted it. We're still friends and can shoot together.

It's surprising to me, but otherwise cool and (generally) honest people can sometimes
be tempted to dump in league, because they just don't take it seriously.
But I can't look at it that way. For me, it's like... you're gonna do something dishonest
at least have a good reason or incentive to do it. Don't sell out over something that's meaningless.

Honestly in your shoes I'd report the old captain, and I'd have done it long ago,
not played a whole season with one or more players trying to cheat the system.
By doing that you let them think you were cool with it. So no shock he'd act all surprised and offended.
 
CreeDo said:
Honestly in your shoes I'd report the old captain, and I'd have done it long ago,
not played a whole season with one or more players trying to cheat the system.
By doing that you let them think you were cool with it. So no shock he'd act all surprised and offended.
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I did report him about half way through the session. Nothing that I know of was done. I told him it didn't fly with me. He pulled me to the side one night and said I need to sandbag or I'm off the team, that's when I reported him.

I'm not the best 8-ball player by far, but I'm not an SL3 or SL4 either. I'm currently an SL5, but the session is over, so it had no effect. The APA handicap system seems to do it's job. I understand why I was ranked low in the beginning, new guy, new town... makes sense.
 
DAVE_M said:
I did report him about half way through the session. Nothing that I know of was done. I told him it didn't fly with me. He pulled me to the side one night and said I need to sandbag or I'm off the team, that's when I reported him.

I'm not the best 8-ball player by far, but I'm not an SL3 or SL4 either. I'm currently an SL5, but the session is over, so it had no effect. The APA handicap system seems to do it's job. I understand why I was ranked low in the beginning, new guy, new town... makes sense.
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You obviously are on the wrong team. You need to play on a team that don't want to win money and don't want to go to Vegas. You need to play on a team that don't mind being in last place.

You should get off that team right away. All teams that win money and win in Vegas have at least two players that are under handicapped. On these teams, players need to be a team player and keep their handicap as low as possible.

It is a real art form to keep your handicap down and win without people noticing. You can call it cheating or sandbagging if you want, but it's not all for just a trophy like you say. It's about winning some cash and going on vacation in Vegas. People shoot all year around for this.

If you don't care about winning cash or a trip you should play in a bar league where there is a trophy and banquet at the end of the season. APA, TAP, and other handicap leagues is all about winning money and trips. You are fooled if you think otherwise.

If you don't know this by now...well maybe you never will. Paying $7 dollars a week plus $20 for a yearly membership, it's nice to get something back for your investment.

Be a team player and keep you handicap down and win at the same time. You need to think about the rest of your team or don't play in a team event.
 
Welcome to the APA or anyother handicapped league system.

Handicap = Sandbagging

And yes, there are whiny nits in every league system.



Stones
 
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