League players are strange people

[Nitrokid373]

For Me I play in the VNEA league up here in Ontario Canada. I dont know much about the BCA or the TAP or APA but i do know in the league i play its basically a test of who can show up and play the best 5 games over a span of 3-4 hours. 5 Man teams and you play every fifth game. So i believe that this is not a real test of skill its a test of who can show up and be "ready to shoot". Getting back to the original topic we have players that sandbag we have players that whine and we have players that think they should be at the Mosconi Cup next year. The point is its the nature of the beast. The league is only as serious as you make it. Its a night out and not somewhere you should be hanging your head because you missed the final runout in week 3. Everyone makes the final tournament. I personally am fairly new to the sanctioned leagues having played for 3 years. Iam 23 and have been in talks to get some coaching from some top players and have realized that the 5 games i play in league arent whats going to put me at that next level. Its going to be the knowledge and the PRACTISE that will put me ahead.

 

[Runnintable]

The APA dwarfs the other leagues you mentioned. Therefore by shear #'s they will be named more in a thread like this. Depending on the region you live some of those others leagues just don't exist.
For example, In my region BCA?? huh what who... and whats this TAP this stuff people talk about. Oh and forget about the fringe leagues of VNEA or whatever.

Also, the whole nittty league player shit is over played. People in any form of pool competition can act like jackasses. Whether it's a gambling session, weekend warrior tournament, weekly calcutta, and so on.

 

[StuartTKelley]

There are many threads on here that bemoan the death of pool and what can be done to save it. Yet whenever a thread about leagues come up people tend to kill them on here.

From where I sit leagues seem to be pretty successful. Once, twice, three times a week many people go to their local bar or pool hall and plunk down their cash to have some fun.

People are just messed up no matter what the sport. You have your cheaters and whiners, you have some really terrible players, you have some very good players but overall what you see is a microcosm of our society.

I think that leagues, whether it be APA, NAPA, TAP or any of the others, deserve the support of the top level players and anyone interested in seeing pool succeed. It's where the masses are, the very market that needs to be engaged for the industry to grow.

I agree with this.

I'm not terribly concerned about the opinions of those who tear the leagues apart every time they open their mouth. If you want to be an elitist so be it but don't tell those who play league that they take it too seriously just because you don't take them seriously. If this is the only stage on which they measure their ability and compete then I believe they should take it very seriously and give it all they have. Yes, this is their arena. Would they get swallowed up by shortstops who gamble for a living or those unknown champions..local heros..whoever... who spend every day and night in the pool hall? Most all of the casual players yes, but, why should they care about that? That's not where they live. Give em a break folks. I love pool and I play league. I have some fun but I take it very seriously when I play. If I didn't what would be the point? If I'm not giving my best on every shot for my team then I need to play at home in my basement or just watch tv....

 

[justadub]

The APA dwarfs the other leagues you mentioned. Therefore by shear #'s they will be named more in a thread like this. Depending on the region you live some of those others leagues just don't exist.
For example, In my region BCA?? huh what who... and whats this TAP this stuff people talk about. Oh and forget about the fringe leagues of VNEA or whatever.

Also, the whole nittty league player shit is over played. People in any form of pool competition can act like jackasses. Whether it's a gambling session, weekend warrior tournament, weekly calcutta, and so on.

Indeed....well put.

 

[justadub]

I agree with this.

I'm not terribly concerned about the opinions of those who tear the leagues apart every time they open their mouth. If you want to be an elitist so be it but don't tell those who play league that they take it too seriously just because you don't take them seriously. If this is the only stage on which they measure their ability and compete then I believe they should take it very seriously and give it all they have. Yes, this is their arena. Would they get swallowed up by shortstops who gamble for a living or those unknown champions..local heros..whoever... who spend every day and night in the pool hall? Most all of the casual players yes, but, why should they care about that? That's not where they live. Give em a break folks. I love pool and I play league. I have some fun but I take it very seriously when I play. If I didn't what would be the point? If I'm not giving my best on every shot for my team then I need to play at home in my basement or just watch tv....

Another good post

 

[leto1776]

Dave,
My son who has never played pool competitively except on Tuesday nights at Buffalo Billiards in Metairie is getting together with some of his pool friends and forming a team. My son has never played in a pool leagues and all of the guys on the team think like you. None of them are going to sandbag. You'd be welcome on the team if you are interested.

I won't be playing on the team. For the most part they are all about your age. Most have only been playing for a year or two but one guy plays pretty sporty.

The problem is that we are at a loss to decide which leagues would be the best to start in. I was thinking that if they play one session in the APA they will move them up faster than Usain Bolt and then they could go on to other leagues.

Does anyone have amy thoughts on which league to start them in (AND WHY)?

JoeyA

Shop around with them.the big, National leagues may not suit them as much as the local, "in-house" or club based leagues.

 

[jburkm002]

I prefer BCA. More money comes back to the players. There are more high level players it's just a better structure in my opinion. Oh and there are plenty of gamblers in league. Or should I say league players that wouldn't shy away from gamblers.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[Str8PoolPlayer]

This may explain it, to a degree ... Just "click" on the Link, listen to the music and
substitute the word "people" for "League Player", and there you have it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRAr354usf8

 

[ctyhntr]

I thought 2 was the lowest handicap in APA 9-ball. Curious as how did your 2 dropped down to a 1. I have 4 2s on my team and only one is at 50%.

i have an 8 that went up to a 9 a few weeks ago.... thankfully my 2 went down to a 1 or i would be hurting to fit my 9 in .

 

[justadub]

I thought 2 was the lowest handicap in APA 9-ball. Curious as how did your 2 dropped down to a 1. I have 4 2s on my team and only one is at 50%.

Ladies can go to a 1 in APA 9-ball. They only need 14 points for a win. So don't give them ball in hand too much, they (usually) can get a point that way. My SL7 got beat by an SL1 once, she would miss, and kept accidentally leaving him snookered. Crazy game.

The 50% benchmark alone won't drop them to a 1. Way too many determining factors in 'the equalizer" which we've beaten to death.

SL2 is the lowest in APA 8-ball.

 

[APA BRIAN]

Ok so the question is... is the behavior described typical of the APA? The answer is..... sometimes. I don't know how many teams are in your league, or how many APA leagues are in your area. But let's say you have 12 teams. 4, 5, 6 of them could be sandbag Vegas happy. Its a "landmine" experience for sure, but a lot of this falls on the LO.
And now you knowing what teams are prone.. or "demand" you hold back speed, you should connect with your LO, let him know, he agreed to deal with sandbagging when he bought the franchise.
Just tell them, this is the APA dude...nobody is going broke, nobody is getting rich, I'm here to play my best. That's how its going to be, if you don't like that, I'm sorry.
Good luck and sorry for your experience, but yeah league players can be totally weird.... your taking bar pool players and giving them structure and a fairly easy system to atleast try to take advantage of.... try to consider the source in a lot of this, everybody else should do that as well :grin:

 

[chefjeff]

I thought 2 was the lowest handicap in APA 9-ball. Curious as how did your 2 dropped down to a 1. I have 4 2s on my team and only one is at 50%.

I'll tell you the "answer" our LO told me: Look it up in the rulebook.

So, I look it up in the "rule" book and it says to ask the LO !


This ambiguity is the handicapping/sandbagging problem in APA along with the subjective opinion of players and LOs who don't play well enough to know a player's true speed, but arbitrarily change handicaps anyway.

Now, this craziness turns folks towards better-player leagues, thus opening spaces for new players for APA. Rinse, repeat. It works somehow, as proven over the years.

Truth is stranger than fiction.


Jeff Livingston

 

[CreeDo]

Ladies can go to a 1 in APA 9-ball. They only need 14 points for a win. So don't give them ball in hand too much, they (usually) can get a point that way. My SL7 got beat by an SL1 once, she would miss, and kept accidentally leaving him snookered. Crazy game.

The 50% benchmark alone won't drop them to a 1. Way too many determining factors in 'the equalizer" which we've beaten to death.

SL2 is the lowest in APA 8-ball.

All this time I had no idea that ONLY females could drop that low.
If I were a woman I'd be insulted lol... there are males that are perfectly capable of playing
like total spastics also. It's like saying "women are capable of a level of terrible that
you'd never see from a male".

We have a female 1 on our team. Win rate is around 25% and it took a while for her to get her first win.

I almost hate to do it but our best chance seems to be to put her vs. a 9. Not because we're throwing off
and expecting her to lose... and not cuz we think the 9 is so scary they'll always win anyway.
His race is so long that eventually via the law of averages she will get a couple of ball in hands
and a couple of easy opportunities... there's a legit chance for her to win and she came within 1 ball last time.

 

[lorider]

I thought 2 was the lowest handicap in APA 9-ball. Curious as how did your 2 dropped down to a 1. I have 4 2s on my team and only one is at 50%.

9 ball s/l ranges from 1-9. 8 ball from 2-7.

i got a little known rule for you here..... guys can play as a 1 in 9 ball but if you make it to cities or nationals they are automatically raised to a 2.

my player who was just dropped to a 1 happens to be an 18 year old boy who never picked up a cue in his life until he joined this session. his record so far is 8 losses and 1 win. his only win was against a 1.

we got 1 more session before cities and i have to make a roster change to be competitive.

i gotta get rid of the best 5 i have ever seen "' he is undefeated so far'' but he is unreliable. good news is i think i got a 4 joining that plays like a 5. :grin:

 

[lorider]

All this time I had no idea that ONLY females could drop that low.
If I were a woman I'd be insulted lol... there are males that are perfectly capable of playing
like total spastics also. It's like saying "women are capable of a level of terrible that
you'd never see from a male".

We have a female 1 on our team. Win rate is around 25% and it took a while for her to get her first win.

I almost hate to do it but our best chance seems to be to put her vs. a 9. Not because we're throwing off
and expecting her to lose... and not cuz we think the 9 is so scary they'll always win anyway.
His race is so long that eventually via the law of averages she will get a couple of ball in hands
and a couple of easy opportunities... there's a legit chance for her to win and she came within 1 ball last time.

yea i know what you mean about those " lucky " 1's. i played in a singles board last weekend. did pretty good until i faced a 1.

i beat another 5 38-11. beat a 4 38-20. lost to a 5 38-36.

bad part i had a 1 put me out 14-36. never been hooked so much in my life lol.

 

[justadub]

All this time I had no idea that ONLY females could drop that low.
If I were a woman I'd be insulted lol... there are males that are perfectly capable of playing
like total spastics also. It's like saying "women are capable of a level of terrible that
you'd never see from a male".

We have a female 1 on our team. Win rate is around 25% and it took a while for her to get her first win.

I almost hate to do it but our best chance seems to be to put her vs. a 9. Not because we're throwing off
and expecting her to lose... and not cuz we think the 9 is so scary they'll always win anyway.
His race is so long that eventually via the law of averages she will get a couple of ball in hands
and a couple of easy opportunities... there's a legit chance for her to win and she came within 1 ball last time.

I'm doing this from memory, don't have a rule book nearby, and am too lazy too look it up online, but I believe I am correct that only ladies can be SL1 in 8-ball, and only ladies can be SL2 in 8-ball.

I read posts here about guys rated that low, but I believe that must be only allowed locally, not for cities/states or national, like lorider said. That's probly why our LO doesn't allow it here, cuz that's how you have to play at the higher level tournies.

I suppose it is sexist in a way, but there is no upper level limit so it really shouldn't be viewed too poorly. Ladies that are new to the league start out as SL3's, whereas guys start as SL4's, so they are consistent with this philosophy.

 

[boyersj]

A few thoughts, first if a SL9 is almost getting beat by a sl1 he or she isn't playing percentage pool. He or she shouldn't ever give BIH to a SL1 unless it is a defense jamming other balls together. Possibly the break, but even then its not too hard to break straight and hit square and keep the cueball on the table.

I have played the APA for about 5 years, and do not promote sandbagging. (I did play VNEA for 4 years before I moved to Evansville, but APA is the only league in town) As a SL7 it is my job to accurately assess each players ability on each team and take advantage of those assessments by picking either difficult or easy matchups for each player on my team. There are times I want to win big, and time that I need to be sensitive to the schedule. As it has been stated you can't change rosters at any time, but they can change yours at any time (via skill level change) which is the real driving force behind sandbagging. Teams pay about 1 -2 thousand dollars a year to play and while it is meant to be for fun, if it wasn't competition they wouldn't keep score. Besides playing "just for fun" is like sandbagging in its own way.

As far as players complaining about cheating and sandbagging, pool was about the hustle many years ago and still is in all honestly. The internet has made it much more difficult but think back to the last time you gambled, or had a friend, teammate, etc gamble. Would they have gotten into a money game getting more weight than they needed to win? There is little difference, and while as in gambling and tournaments the handicap shouldn't be so great that the better player is the underdog, it does happen in certain league formats.

APA has a lot of drama in it to cater to the lower ranked player and attempt to defeat sandbagging and dealing with the drama is a choice. Other leagues do not have such penalty to player performance and are geared to a higher skilled player base, that unfortunately is smaller.

 

[CreeDo]

A few thoughts, first if a SL9 is almost getting beat by a sl1 he or she isn't playing percentage pool. He or she shouldn't ever give BIH to a SL1 unless it is a defense jamming other balls together. Possibly the break, but even then its not too hard to break straight and hit square and keep the cueball on the table.

You'd think so, but I played as a 9 vs. a 2 recently and let me tell you, it's very possible to lose.
I was trying to level best to play percentage pool, leaving him hooked or difficult after every safe
or missable tough shot.
I even broke a little softer than usual, more controlled, to avoid the deadly scratch.

What happens though is you get some dry breaks, especially where you're not breaking super hard.
And the wing ball is a total tossup (no magic racks). Not unusual to hang the 1 near the side or corner.

The other luck of the break comes from the lack of pushout, you make something and have no shot,
and even a good kicker can't guarantee a hit + a bad leave after every kick.

I guess it depends on the 9, some of them are putting up 3 packs every week and others are, well, like me

 

[Banks]

I'm doing this from memory, don't have a rule book nearby, and am too lazy too look it up online, but I believe I am correct that only ladies can be SL1 in 8-ball, and only ladies can be SL2 in 8-ball.

I read posts here about guys rated that low, but I believe that must be only allowed locally, not for cities/states or national, like lorider said. That's probly why our LO doesn't allow it here, cuz that's how you have to play at the higher level tournies.

That second part would probably be why. I don't believe that male s/l 1's are allowed in HLT play. I've had one on a team of mine before. He wasn't there for too long, but he was there.

The other luck of the break comes from the lack of pushout, you make something and have no shot,
and even a good kicker can't guarantee a hit + a bad leave after every kick.

I guess it depends on the 9, some of them are putting up 3 packs every week and others are, well, like me

You and I both. I'm at 50% this season in 9. I just can't get it together. Finally got to 3-3 after taking out a 7 18-2, even giving up 3 bih after the break. Probably the best win I've had in a while. Sometimes there's nothing you can do but sit back and smile/laugh, because you can't get a roll/shot to save your life against somebody that is either getting lucky or playing well.. sometimes a mix. Starting to wish masters was 8 games of 8b and 5 games of 9b. :embarrassed2:

 

[nobcitypool]

APA may not be for everyone. There are positives and negatives. If you have ready access to a pool hall and can get a steady dose of good, fun competitive games, I see no reason for joining APA. If you enjoy hanging out with some friends, having a scheduled night per week where you can get a match or two and can put APA in the proper perspective, it may be something you can enjoy. If your primary goals are to use the league as a stepping stone to the pro's, go to Vegas and get 100% fair handicapped competition every week (including tournaments), you should look elsewhere. If you find something in life that is 100% FAIR, please let me know, I want a piece of that action.