15 Ball Ghost Rating Drill

Tough...tough...tough.

I like keeping this drill simple. You get ball in hand after every miss. It didn't even dawn on me until after a played a few racks that instead of shooting at a flyer (after losing control of the cue ball) I should instead just reposition a few balls and then take my ball in hand.

Anyway, I haven't had much time to play with the family being around during Christmas but I got through 5 racks last night and surprised myself with a ten (maybe I'll post the video). I probably couldn't keep that pace up though, or maybe I could....hmmmm.

I can tell that ten racks will take me a lot of time if I'm really giving it my all. This drill may be too tough for me to tackle with the limited time I have to play. I usually play later at night after the wife and kids are in bed and I'm usually half asleep too.

I do like this a lot more than 9 & 10 ball. The early racks require so much better position play than those other games.
 
This does look like a lot of fun, I'm going to give it a go in the new year. My biggest hurdle will be to stay focused for the length of time it will take to complete. I'm hoping by doing this drill it will force me to focus, thats my biggest downfall is my lack of keeping focused.

I've had my home table set-up for just over a week and I've yet to rack the balls, I'm just doing drills trying to develop good habits and proper form. I may even record my efforts, just knowing the tape is running is enough motivation to stay on track with the focus, especially until I learn how to edit videos :-)
 
fishless said:
This does look like a lot of fun, I'm going to give it a go in the new year. My biggest hurdle will be to stay focused for the length of time it will take to complete. I'm hoping by doing this drill it will force me to focus, thats my biggest downfall is my lack of keeping focused.

I've had my home table set-up for just over a week and I've yet to rack the balls, I'm just doing drills trying to develop good habits and proper form. I may even record my efforts, just knowing the tape is running is enough motivation to stay on track with the focus, especially until I learn how to edit videos :-)
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It will sure help you with the mental focus.

The position play and shotmaking required to do well are ridiculous. Unlike 9 ball, I felt like I was out of line every rack until the last few balls. The balls are just too close together and often don't even have a look at a pocket.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I just did it. Video below.

Score:
Rack : BIH (or max) : Balls pocketed
1 : 6 : 10
2 : 5 : 15
3 : 5 : 15
4 : 5 : 15
5 : 3 : 15
6 : 3 : 15
7 : 6 : 14
8 : 6 : 12
9 : 5 : 15
10 : 6 : 7

Total score: 50


A few comments:
1. The rule are too hard to understand with what is a 1 BIH penalty and what is not.
2. The rating is WAY WAY WAY off for lower level players. I've been gambling for 20 years with open to D and banger players. I put myself at a solid C+ rating, sometimes breaking into the B territory. I scored a 50 on the drill.

A "D" player I highly doubt would run 1 complete rack out of 10. I feel these rating systems are not linear. What I mean is the jump between B and A if 10 points, the jump between D and C might be 30 points, and C and B might be 20 points. They are not equal jumps. A D player is not a favoriet to run 3 balls in rotation, when only 3 are on the table. A "C" player is not the favorite to run 5 balls in rotation, when there are only 5 on the table.

3. After the first couple of racks, I decided to take BIH anytime I wanted to, even if I just wanted a better shot. I'm not sure if the rules allowed that. But if they didn't allow that, then for sure I would have never cleared all 15 balls. No way.

4. With the BIH anytime rule, after the first couple of racks, I scored 50.

5. Again, I'm pretty sure of my C+ rating. I can beat the 4 ball ghost (4 total balls on the table) slightly more than 50 percent of the time. I can give the 6 ball to D players and beat them. I need the 6 to 8 balls from B players, depending on how strong they are. And I don't play A or above players anymore. They are just too far out of my league, regardless of the weight. I learned that after many thousands of dollars wagered.

Video 1 of 2 (camera quit towards the end, don't know how many games/shots were not recorded before I noticed)
http://youtu.be/3_fpU4Szf_s

Video 2 of 2
http://youtu.be/HMqIp3Qoni8
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Sorry I didn't respond sooner.

First of all, thank you for trying this out. I'll watch some of your videos when I have a few moments.

I added a summary of the penalties, and also added that, yes, it is okay to take ball in hand at anytime. So if you take BIH on the 3, make it, but miss shape on the 4. You can take BIH again.

As for the rating system, what do you (or anyone else reading) suggest? I'm definitely open to making any necessary adjustments.
 
TATE said:
I played around with it. This is one of the best drills I've ever done - great idea BieberLvr. Frustrating at times but addictive, which is what makes practice fun.

To score well like Joe and Gerry did, it requires a tremendous amount of extended concentration, making this a mental drill as well.
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Thank you!

I think what makes it fun/challenging is the score element. While the rating system might not be perfect (just yet), it gives you a way to judge yourself, and then see improvements.
 
Okay, this was just off the top of my head, and I'm still open to more suggestions.

What does everyone think of this?

0-10 World Beater
11-20 Pro
21-25 AAA
26-30 AA
31-35 A
36-45 B
46-55 C
56+ D

Yeah, a score of 0 is extremely unlikely. But I could see a top pro getting a 10 or slightly under, and that definitely would earn the ranking of "world beater"
 
fun

This sounds like a good test and a fun way to practice and learn to stay focus for 10 racks. I have a BB and can't break hard anymore, so I'll wait for a real dry day so the balls spread as good as can make then. Sounds like I should make "B" but probably harder on the box with a poor break than it sounds. Nice drill though. Thank you. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
This sounds like a good test and a fun way to practice and learn to stay focus for 10 racks. I have a BB and can't break hard anymore, so I'll wait for a real dry day so the balls spread as good as can make then. Sounds like I should make "B" but probably harder on the box with a poor break than it sounds. Nice drill though. Thank you. Johnnyt
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At my advanced age, and with my really tight 4" pockets and failing eyesight, I only have the energy to play one rack at a time.

Here's today's:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0XrXUAUTkd8&feature=youtu.be

I'll try to put up one interesting rack a day. Time for a nap...
 
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I think there should be no limit of 6 per rack. Keep chugging along until you make all 15 balls. The reason for this is to see the true difference in lower level players.

A banger would probably need 25 BIH's per rack. A D might need 15 per rack. And so on. Right now the weaker players are artificially held closer by the 6 max score per rack.
 
iusedtoberich said:
I think there should be no limit of 6 per rack. Keep chugging along until you make all 15 balls. The reason for this is to see the true difference in lower level players.

A banger would probably need 25 BIH's per rack. A D might need 15 per rack. And so on. Right now the weaker players are artificially held closer by the 6 max score per rack.
Click to expand...

Yes - I don't understand why there's a limit.

If a player scratches on the break and takes BIH, does that just count as 1 ball in hand or is he now on 2?

The scratch on the break is far more likely in 15 ball and is an uncontrollable roll, since there are so many collisions.

This game is ruining my already depressing social life!
 
TATE said:
Yes - I don't understand why there's a limit.

If a player scratches on the break and takes BIH, does that just count as 1 ball in hand or is he now on 2?

The scratch on the break is far more likely in 15 ball and is an uncontrollable roll, since there are so many collisions.

This game is ruining my already depressing social life!
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Scratch on the break is 1 point
 
iusedtoberich said:
I think there should be no limit of 6 per rack. Keep chugging along until you make all 15 balls. The reason for this is to see the true difference in lower level players.

A banger would probably need 25 BIH's per rack. A D might need 15 per rack. And so on. Right now the weaker players are artificially held closer by the 6 max score per rack.
Click to expand...

I get your point. The worst score one can get is a 60.

I'll make the change.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Okay, this was just off the top of my head, and I'm still open to more suggestions.

What does everyone think of this?

0-10 World Beater
11-20 Pro
21-25 AAA
26-30 AA
31-35 A
36-45 B
46-55 C
56+ D

Yeah, a score of 0 is extremely unlikely. But I could see a top pro getting a 10 or slightly under, and that definitely would earn the ranking of "world beater"
Click to expand...

What about these rankings but get rid of the ball in hand limit? I don't think it's necessary to get into detailed rankings after a score of 56.

If you score a 65, you're a D player. If you score a 90 then you're just a worse D player.

Thoughts?
 
Well, so far we only have 3 players that did this. One out of competition pro, one strong local level player, and one intermediate player.

You pulled the numbers out of thin air. I scored a 50, and I'm not even sure I followed the rules correctly. I'm very confident I'm a high C player, going by "gamblers ratings".

There is simply not enough information to determine the scale.
 
Btw I don't know if you all recall but a bunch of us were doing the Hopkins 15 ball challange. This is where you rack all 15, shoot the first 10 balls in random order, and shoot the last 5 balls in rotation. 1 point for each of the first 10, and 2 points for each of the last 5, for a total score of 20 per rack. You would do this 10 racks.

We had a sub forum section for it, and the competition went on for about 5 yrs I believe before it died out. Anyway I only bring this up because there were probably 200 ppl or so who participated, and lots of discussion. This was before ease of video sharing, so there are no YouTube videos of it.
 
How about staying with max 5 ball in hands each rack but using the formula of
(# of balls on table + # of ball in hands used)?

So a player uses all 5 BIH and has 6 balls left on the table. Score for that rack is 11.

Edited formula.
 
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