I was fairly sure he played with a Kamui as well, but I for some reason thought remembered it being a hard...
Are Kamui Clear tips a gimmick???
- Thread starter Bob 14:1
- Start date
I was fairly sure he played with a Kamui as well, but I for some reason thought remembered it being a hard...
I wonder if the people who are having problems with their kamui tips somehow ended up with counterfeits. I've seen a LOT of fakes floating around the newer counterfeits even have the holograms on them. You can spot them if you know what you're looking for, but I'm sure there are many being bought, sold, and used everyday.
Amazing what a small piece of plastic on the bottom of a tip can do for your game.
Honestly, I would have never thought.
One of these days, I will have to cut up a few CDs.
Terry - Wondering what is used to attach the small plastic disc to the leather tip. Must be rivets, yep, thats it, rivets, cause it couldn't be glue or anything.
None so Blind than those who will not see. But I forgot, 30 dollar chalk will also bring your game up by a few balls also.
I seriously don't care what tip a person chooses to use, but if the cue ball doesn't hit the object ball exactly where it needs to, the OB isn't going where you would prefer it to.
If a little piece of plastic on the bottom of a tip can change that for you. Then I don't know what else to say. I am truly amazed at the technology behind this.
I win my games with a Cheap Milk Dud.
Honestly, I would have never thought.
One of these days, I will have to cut up a few CDs.
Terry - Wondering what is used to attach the small plastic disc to the leather tip. Must be rivets, yep, thats it, rivets, cause it couldn't be glue or anything.
None so Blind than those who will not see. But I forgot, 30 dollar chalk will also bring your game up by a few balls also.
I seriously don't care what tip a person chooses to use, but if the cue ball doesn't hit the object ball exactly where it needs to, the OB isn't going where you would prefer it to.
If a little piece of plastic on the bottom of a tip can change that for you. Then I don't know what else to say. I am truly amazed at the technology behind this.
I win my games with a Cheap Milk Dud.
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lol, actually when you really sit back and think about it, its kinda funny you have to laugh at it. Dbag kinda has a good point. Folks, we're being sold a tiny piece of leather for 20 plus bucks, we fork over the cash, smile, and proceed to get more people to do the same for them. I'll stick to the pressed elkmaster. I actually feel foolish thinking that I spent that kinda money on tips. There's always gonna be a hustle in the pool room. Not saying it aint a bad tip, but, for the money?
Do you have a personal beef with Kamui or something? I ask because your replies about them seem to go far beyond a simple like or dislike... :scratchhead:
It would seem like you have a personal vendetta against them from reading your replies...?
Heck, I personally HATE Elkmasters, Blue Diamonds, and LePros, but I still at least carry them, and on the rare occasion one of the old-timers asks for one I would never turn them away on it?
Just sounds like you have an ax to grind more than anything...
Inquiring minds wanna know Hog, whats up...?
Rain-Man
I could never wrap my head around this kind of thinking... I dont know if its from an era I was not around for, but I just dont get it..
My lowest priced tips installed are $14 .. I charge $29 for a Kamui Black, or $30 for a Kamui Clear Black. So for the sake of argument here, lets just use the $30 Kamui Clear Black.
- The difference in price is $16
- My personal tips last around 4-6 months (MOST people go much longer before tip changes, but I play at least 5 days a week, and around an average of 3-5 hours each of those days)
- So just using the median numbers here, Im getting about 400 hours of use/enjoyment from a single tip (4 hours a session x 5 days a week x 20 weeks)
- So my price to use the tip I prefer comes out to about an additional $0.04 per hour ($16 Divided by 400 hours)
Think of the many ways you can (and do) EASILY spend $16...
Now, im not saying their for everyone. Everybody has their personal opinions of what they like and dislike, and thats completely fine. I have no problem when someone says they dont like a Kamui tip because of how it plays....
But It kills me when I hear someone say they dont like them or use them because their too expensive.. I literally cant stop shaking my head when I read/hear this argument... These are the same people who would honestly use them (and love them) in a heartbeat if they were frickin $10 cheaper....
Just blows me away..... 4 cents an hour....
Really?
Sounds like that's your doing that the Kamui tips sit in the toolbox. It comes down to what people want, or does it? Not in your case since you seem to determine what people want. I would Never take my cue for maintanance to someone like you. When I have work done on my cue I want it done my way, I'm paying for it and could care less if i pay $25 for a tip, it lasts for 6-8 months. Anyways, your opinion won't sway me nor many others not to use Kamui. So Keep up the good work promoting the tips you make the most margin on, we all get it.. And for the record, I do like Ultraskins but am more fond 75% of Moori's, and ofcourse Kamui. As far as the kamui clear goes, it's astetics for me not the glue wicking or whatever else marketed to be practical.
Sounds like that's your doing that the Kamui tips sit in the toolbox. It comes down to what people want, or does it? Not in your case since you seem to determine what people want. I would Never take my cue for maintanance to someone like you. When I have work done on my cue I want it done my way, I'm paying for it and could care less if i pay $25 for a tip, it lasts for 6-8 months. Anyways, your opinion won't sway me nor many others not to use Kamui. So Keep up the good work promoting the tips you make the most margin on, we all get it.. And for the record, I do like Ultraskins but am more fond 75% of Moori's, and ofcourse Kamui. As far as the kamui clear goes, it's astetics for me not the glue wicking or whatever else marketed to be practical.
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I have to agree, Terry. It seems this product is one created to "fix a problem that doesn't exist." I have never seen a cue repairman worth his salt mount a tip cockeyed or tilted. Amateurs? Sure. Cue repairman in the business, day in and day out? No.
And this idea of glue wicking into the bottom layers -- isn't glue *supposed* to do that, for adhesion purposes? I don't know, I've always been of the impression that glue on any porous surface (as leather is) is supposed to lightly wick into the surface -- think roots of a plant growing into the earth -- to "grab" the material tightly. And it's not like the CA glue is going to completely saturate those layers where they become as hard as the glue itself. Kamui makes it out like if one or two layers become as hard as the glue, that it takes away from the whole tip.
Last I looked, layered tips:
- Have their layers glued together to begin with. So between that first layer and the second layer, you already have a non-porous "glue barrier" against the CA glue you're using to glue the tip with. That CA is not going to wick past that first layer.
- Are at least five layers thick. Some are seven or more. Even if that first layer is completely compromised by glue wicking (which would have to be literally soaked), you still have at least four layers of good tip material left.
The idea that inconsistencies in how a repairman glues a tip on is going to be removed with this "clear" barrier is, IMHO, nonsense. A repairman that does a shoddy glue job on regular layered tips can just as easily do a shoddy glue job with this Kamui Clear product. It's just marketing.
The tip material itself (the part past that clear layer) is a different matter. That can be a good tip, and I imagine the leather product Kamui uses is. I just don't buy this marketing about the clear layer.
Having said all that, if Kamui is making a product that is popular and makes the company successful, I'm for it, because we need successes in pool. I'm just not a fan of the "eating your own children" style of marketing, and so I think for myself and make my own choices.
-Sean
.............
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Yes Rain Man. I don't have a personal beef with Kamui. I know they do much for pool.
My beef, and it isn't that great is with John Bertone. You can PM me and I will explain. I have aired this publicly before and it is not necessary to type it over again.
Regardless of that, my opinions of the clear tip is exactly what I typed as it has zero to do with how I feel about John.
JZ, if you lived closer, you should bring your cues to my shop. I take a serious amount of extra time, just to install one tip. That is to ensure that any of my installs are flawless.
I have had one tip pop and that was on my own cue.
I also have a money back guarantee with any tip that I recommend. If a player isn't happy with any particular tip, I will replace the tip with any other tip of choice.
Customers that have a tip put on also get a free dent removal and shaft clean with any tip. Not many repairmen do that for free.
I'm a bit OCD and won't allow a dirty shaft to leave the shop. so they get that, no charge.
So far, I haven't chased any players away from my shop.
As I mentioned, the prepping of a tip with thin CA is done on any tip. Pig Skin will tend to wick more than some others. This was started with Moori tips long before Kamui was in the market. I didn't invent this prepping procedure. I learned from repairmen that have decades more experience than I.
And as Sean stated and anyone is welcome to try this on their own. The wicking will only go to one half to one full layer at the bottom. This stops the glue from being wicked into the bottom on install and provides for a much better bond between the tip and ferrule.
I have replaced popped tips and could see that there is almost no glue left on the ferrule. It all disappeared into the tip. After the CA has dried, I use a tip *****er and make a few small indents into the bottom of the tip where the set glue is. This will give the glue something else to wick into and make an even stronger bond.
I would make zero money at a tourney as it usually takes me 20 minutes to install a tip. It might be crazy but it is my way.
I keep OB carbon pads and regular fiber pads on hand for break cues. If someone wants a pretty blue or red pad under their tip they can have one for free as it takes almost no time to add one for them.
I use thin CA to prep. I believe that a Gel CA or Epoxy, which is thicker may tend to wick much less than Thin. I have always done it my way and not overly interested in experimenting on either mine or a customers cues.
My beef, and it isn't that great is with John Bertone. You can PM me and I will explain. I have aired this publicly before and it is not necessary to type it over again.
Regardless of that, my opinions of the clear tip is exactly what I typed as it has zero to do with how I feel about John.
JZ, if you lived closer, you should bring your cues to my shop. I take a serious amount of extra time, just to install one tip. That is to ensure that any of my installs are flawless.
I have had one tip pop and that was on my own cue.
I also have a money back guarantee with any tip that I recommend. If a player isn't happy with any particular tip, I will replace the tip with any other tip of choice.
Customers that have a tip put on also get a free dent removal and shaft clean with any tip. Not many repairmen do that for free.
I'm a bit OCD and won't allow a dirty shaft to leave the shop. so they get that, no charge.
So far, I haven't chased any players away from my shop.
As I mentioned, the prepping of a tip with thin CA is done on any tip. Pig Skin will tend to wick more than some others. This was started with Moori tips long before Kamui was in the market. I didn't invent this prepping procedure. I learned from repairmen that have decades more experience than I.
And as Sean stated and anyone is welcome to try this on their own. The wicking will only go to one half to one full layer at the bottom. This stops the glue from being wicked into the bottom on install and provides for a much better bond between the tip and ferrule.
I have replaced popped tips and could see that there is almost no glue left on the ferrule. It all disappeared into the tip. After the CA has dried, I use a tip *****er and make a few small indents into the bottom of the tip where the set glue is. This will give the glue something else to wick into and make an even stronger bond.
I would make zero money at a tourney as it usually takes me 20 minutes to install a tip. It might be crazy but it is my way.
I keep OB carbon pads and regular fiber pads on hand for break cues. If someone wants a pretty blue or red pad under their tip they can have one for free as it takes almost no time to add one for them.
I use thin CA to prep. I believe that a Gel CA or Epoxy, which is thicker may tend to wick much less than Thin. I have always done it my way and not overly interested in experimenting on either mine or a customers cues.
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Straw man.
The clear pad has nothing to do with facing off either surface; it's about consistent gluing, period. 3 out of 4 repairmen in my area does not understand the concept of properly prepping a tip for install. As a consequence, I've had more tips end up "clicking" on me than I care to mention. The clear pad makes install idiot-proof, and that is the ONLY thing it does. The rest is hype and gimmick, I agree, but having a guaranteed install is no small thing.
-roger
Buddha, we have been thru this before in the last Kamui Clear thread.
In the end, we both agreed to each others theory. I believe that we are both reading from the same page on this one.
My comment on the facing thing was in response to a post where someone mentioned a lop sided install.
Myself, I can't see any, or many repairmen that would sand the bottom of a tip that much as to make it lop sided.
Maybe that was a bad choice of words. Lop Sided.
Altho, the idea of sending an apprentice out to get some 45 degree sand paper might be worth a laugh.
In the end, we both agreed to each others theory. I believe that we are both reading from the same page on this one.
My comment on the facing thing was in response to a post where someone mentioned a lop sided install.
Myself, I can't see any, or many repairmen that would sand the bottom of a tip that much as to make it lop sided.
Maybe that was a bad choice of words. Lop Sided.
Altho, the idea of sending an apprentice out to get some 45 degree sand paper might be worth a laugh.
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Having gone through all kinds of tips....my advice has always been...try all the tips you can find and you'll be the judge as to what is the best for you. Some players...just love the triangle and there's nothing you can do especially when they been playing fine with it for over 50 years. I personally like hard hitting tips as to me it more consistent and provide me with more power (love my CM360 Fearless tips). The benefit of SS or Soft tip is that it can be molded and harden naturally to your stroke over time of play...but it required time to break into the tips.
Regardless of the tip you choose, you need to first understand if you want a hard hitting or soft hitting tips. Hard hitting tip give you more elasticity/bounce/power....most soft absorb your power/has less bounce so require more stroke power to move the ball but it has more feel to them ... Generally softer tips are good for spinning the ball and harder tips are good for playing natural shot that closer to center. Regardless of all the tips out on the market, the best tips is always going to be different for everyone. You'll hear a lot people that say so and so tip is the best...but most probably haven't try anything else to know the difference.
Regardless of the tip you choose, you need to first understand if you want a hard hitting or soft hitting tips. Hard hitting tip give you more elasticity/bounce/power....most soft absorb your power/has less bounce so require more stroke power to move the ball but it has more feel to them ... Generally softer tips are good for spinning the ball and harder tips are good for playing natural shot that closer to center. Regardless of all the tips out on the market, the best tips is always going to be different for everyone. You'll hear a lot people that say so and so tip is the best...but most probably haven't try anything else to know the difference.
Thats good advice Duc.
Funny that I have just about every tip available in my tool box but just got on to using my own Milk Duds and now using Dawg's Duds for some time.
To me, they give me everything that I want in a tip.
Some of my shafts also have Ultra Skins and Black Kings on them. Another 2 tips that I will always use and recommend.
Funny that I have just about every tip available in my tool box but just got on to using my own Milk Duds and now using Dawg's Duds for some time.
To me, they give me everything that I want in a tip.
Some of my shafts also have Ultra Skins and Black Kings on them. Another 2 tips that I will always use and recommend.
When you try a tip you like, go back and buy a bunch of them. The last time I did that it was black Kamui SS and I went back and bought a dozen. If you don't, you might end up with a different pig that led a rougher life or maybe the little Japanese grandma's chewing the whale blubber for the glue between the layers that day were tired and didn't masticate enough.
Installed, the Kamui clears look like you're putting a big ol' glue line between the ferrule and tip. I wouldn't want a big ol' glue line between my shaft and ferrule, so why on God's good green Simonis covered Earth would I put one between my tip and ferrule?
Lou Figueroa
Installed, the Kamui clears look like you're putting a big ol' glue line between the ferrule and tip. I wouldn't want a big ol' glue line between my shaft and ferrule, so why on God's good green Simonis covered Earth would I put one between my tip and ferrule?
Lou Figueroa
You're right, I forgot about the earlier threads. You sound like you know how to install a tip the right way, and so for you the clear pad would be superfluous. Not so for many, many "repairmen" out there, who don't prep the tip properly, or use the best quality/freshest glue. Nothing is more frustrating than getting your cue back, and within the first rack hearing that awful "click" of a bad install.
-roger
