TAR 38 Results

[Nick B]

First of all I really like Darren and Dennis equally. I'm sorry if Jay and I both made comments on Darrens behavior during the match but it was hard not to. I never want to see players get bad rolls like Darren thought he did or didn't. They are both world champions. In my opinion darren mumbling for the last 2 hours hurt his game and I feel bad for him that he did that. As I said I really like Darren and definately don't wish him bad luck. The rolls were even in my opinion and when Dennis got a good roll or a bad roll he never said any thing. It just dissapointed me to hear Darren complain.

Cotton,
Jay and yourself did a great job. It's not easy commenting in a box for 25 hours without it getting a little squirly. In the end it was a great show. Somebody wins. Somebody Loses. Somebody takes down the cash. Somebody is less than happy. It can only end one way.

The boys fought hard and in the end pressure kills. If it really was a problem then Justin could have muted the mic and put an end to it. He figured it was better show with it on.

Hope to see you in a few weeks when I come down for business.

 

[arps]

...but that's life I will come back stronger and not make same mistake next time .

^the mark of a true champion. goodluck on DCC.

 

[bobbycotton]

Krupa, we did not criticize Darrens playing as he played really really great because he is a world champion. Darren is a great player, he broke the balls perfect and Jay and I both said how Darren ran out from the tougher spots on the table and thats excactly what he did too. Every time the balls were impossible he played better position than Dennis. And Jay and I both complimented him on that. What we talked about was his non-stop complaining for 3 hours about bad rolls etc. I hope that Darren watches the match and sees how it looked.

 

[bmsclayton]

talking

Krupa, we did not criticize Darrens playing as he played really really great because he is a world champion. Darren is a great player, he broke the balls perfect and Jay and I both said how Darren ran out from the tougher spots on the table and thats excactly what he did too. Every time the balls were impossible he played better position than Dennis. And Jay and I both complimented him on that. What we talked about was his non-stop complaining for 3 hours about bad rolls etc. I hope that Darren watches the match and sees how it looked.

I watched just Sunday. I think Darren is telling the truth and DO never heard him complaining. I also think that being mic'd up allowed us to hear stuff we would have never normally known and never would have been an issue. I also believe the rolls were dead even. Hell not making a ball on the break for 10 racks has to be considered bad rolls for Dennis.

If DA could really hear you guys then you have a big problem. Number one as you stated things he should look at or shots he should shoot he went and looked at them which leads me to believe he could hear you. So he had to listen to you to go on and on about him specifically while he is trying to play. He had to listen to shot advice, negativity, stating he won't get out, and talking about his pouting/whining. Had I been playing and was able to hear you guys you would have gotton a loud STFU.

It was a great match and fun to watch. I had good action on it and enjoyed the sweat. I did appreciate the level of playing commentary in between all of the non stop repetitive bashing on the whining.

 

[krupa]

Krupa, we did not criticize Darrens playing as he played really really great because he is a world champion. Darren is a great player, he broke the balls perfect and Jay and I both said how Darren ran out from the tougher spots on the table and thats excactly what he did too. Every time the balls were impossible he played better position than Dennis. And Jay and I both complimented him on that. What we talked about was his non-stop complaining for 3 hours about bad rolls etc. I hope that Darren watches the match and sees how it looked.

I wasn't referring to Darren and his muttering specifically.

I was making a general comment that I felt that you and Jay spent a lot of time hammering on the mistakes of both players. Not just saying, "he made a mistake with that shot" or "I don't know why he didn't do XYZ". You two would say those things and then keep talking about it. One instance that sticks out in my mind was actually something Dennis did during the 8-ball match.

I only watched about 2 hours of the one pocket and then a few racks of the 8- and 10-ball (the weekend got busier than I expected it would) so maybe I just caught it at bad times.

That all being said, I enjoyed your stories and your insight into one-pocket. It's not a game I play very much at all (like a couple times a year) and hearing you and Jay talk about strategy and what-not is very educational.

 

[stljohnny]

I haven't read the 5 pages of comments so if this has been covered, I apologize.

The only thing that really got to me about the commentating on the last day, wasn't they were remarking on Daz's self-talk; but more that they didn't understand what he was saying and went off on that tangent.

Specifically, when Daz was up 25-23 and he came long off the 7 in the side, leaving him tough/thin on the 8; which he missed. He said something about "shooting a flyer on the 7" - but Cotton thought he said "there was a fly on the 7" - and they took it from there. You can hear Daz basically replay the sequence of shots and the consequences ("draw on the 6, flyer on the 7" ... "supposed to be 26-23 right now"); but Cotton especially couldn't get passed his misinterpretation.

Negative self-talk is common among all players, and we do not expect to hear such things from the pros, so while this might have been surprising to hear, I think it was a bit refreshing.

If anyone thinks that Dennis didn't have all those same though whenever he broke dry or sent whitey off the table or missed a shot (like that 7-ball he shot 100mph which jarred and put Daz on the hill), I think they'd be in a surprise. Now, whether Dennis decided to not say anything *because* he was mic'd or if he just kept those thoughts internal, we can't be sure.

Jay did a much better job of remaining neutral though, but after Cotton got on the Coors train, he quickly went biased.

And let's be honest, when you're on the hill and your opponent needs 5, and you can't get there - there isn't a single good thing going through your mind. And when you dog every chance you get, bad things are going to be said. "If I pot the 1-ball I win the match.", "All I had to do was pot the 1-ball" ... I'm sure every one of us has said that at some point, during some match.

As far as its "unprofessionalism" though - I don't agree. His demeanor, though defeatist, wasn't active or distracting. He barely did more than mumble under his breath. He certainly didn't make a spectacle of himself. If anything, the recent Mosconi Cup just cemented the fact that all players mumble on the way back to the chair.

All that said, I still enjoy Cotton's commentating (except when he gets off on a tangent about the old-school road players while stuff is happening on the table), and this weekend was no exception.

Thank you TAR for putting together another great weekend of pool.

 

[bowman]

Commentators were very unprofessional, had to turn sound off.

I agree they where very unprofessional,i to had to turn the sound off .I will never purchase tar events when they are commentating they was a joke..

 

[bobbycotton]

I drank 3 sips of Coors and after 7 hours Jay and I both told a story or 2.

 

[Banks]

Thanks .. It's a tough game mentally probably toughest game in world mentally .. But am just a normal guy like rest of u ..when I not playing pool am a different person .. Pools my job so got to give it everything to make living and pay bills .

Tonight was a sickener but I will come back stronger and try and take the positives that in i should've beat in my opinion the best money player in the world .

Darren

Pa thanks again to Justin for the invite amazing what he does for pool. Just wish somebody would come along and help him.

Considering you didn't play your best and lost by the slimmest of margins to a player of Dennis's caliber says a lot.. not that your game really needs much said about it!

Will you be coming up to Portland again this Spring?

 

[bowman]

I really feel for Darren. Throughout last night and tonight there were times when he played safe and felt he would get another chance at the table and the rolls did not go his way. I loved hearing Darren get after himself and feeling like nothing was going his way. It really puts the human element into the game. If I wanted to see robots runout then I am sure someone could build a machine that could do that. I want to see players PLAY. I want to see the way they react when things are not going their way. I also want to see the excitement on their faces when things do go their way.

well said shannon spot on ..

 

[nb92]

I drank 3 sips of Coors and after 7 hours Jay and I both told a story or 2.

bobby... they guys I watched the stream with and I thought the commentary was very good... We enjoyed the stories and turned the sound UP... thanks... look forward to the next one...

 

[bowman]

You are way off.

DAZ was muttering how lucky "these" people were/are. And why does "Everything Bad" happen to him and not them. He gets no rolls. They get all the rolls. In the meantime he didn't close out the match when Dennis dry broke like 10 in a row. Noones fault but his own.

He was not muttering god I shot that bad, or Am I crazy for shooting at that and not playing safe. He was muttering his words towards the "others" (As in players). He never once blamed himself that I recall.

For that they did start being a little more biased, no one wants to hear that from a player. Especially a player that always talks about cleaning up the game.

Jay nor Cotton were out of line. If anyone was out of line it was DAZ, knowing he's mic'd up.

you should join the commentary they spoke crap to where in the rules does it say you can not mutter to yourself ???yes dennis did dry break but got away with most of them.. ...Jay nor Cotton were out of line you clearly only hear what you want to hear they was way out of line ,,,,

 

[JCIN]

I am a pretty harsh judge of behavior. Daz is not a bad guy or out of line at all IMO. Darren was just doing what the vast majority of players do when they are in the heat. Shane has slammed cues, the table, the chalk and anything close to hand. Players have threatened to take other players outside. I have seen it all so much that I just accept Daz talking to himself as a harmless method of dealing with the stress.

I mic the players because people say they want them mic'ed. If the mic's were off for a bathroom break and I forgot to turn them on people said "Why are the mic's off?". If a player says something people don't like then its my fault for having them mic'ed so people can hear it. Its a no win situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

When it comes to commentators I have said it a million times: There is no way to please everyone. Jay does commentary for the Mosconi Cup. Cotton has gotten many positive reviews on all the matches he has done for us. They sign up to sit in that box for four to eight hours and tell it how they see it. I rarely will tell them to do anything because if I didnt want their opinions I wouldn't put them in there in the first place. I dont always agree with them but I respect them enough not to tell them what they should say.

Never in any match has every viewer been happy with the commentary. Not one time. Its a very hard job to talk about pool for six hours without saying something that pisses someone off somewhere in the world.

Last night they got on Darren pretty good. Maybe too much. But I understand that its all part of the moment. These guys had sat there and listened to the muttering for about fifteen hours total up to the point they went off. They dont take a break and watch the football game or go to dinner. They are there for every second of a match and pay attention to everything. So something that will have no impression on a guy who tuned in an hour ago can tilt the hell out of them.

Both players put it all out there this weekend. Both wanted to win and did their best. They didn't go crazy, threaten each other or insult anyone. They put themselves out there for everyone to judge, critique and post opinions about. I am proud of both of them and will work with both again if given the opportunity. Same goes for Bobby and Jay. If that means someone doesnt buy a match because one of them is involved so be it.

 

[dorabelle]

I wish everyone would stop bickering. We are all one big family and not one of us are perfect. Not the players, not the commentators, not me, not you, not even Jcin. Can't we all just accept that and focus on the positives of the amazing event we just got to experience? everyone please stop fighting.

 

[nb92]

I am a pretty harsh judge of behavior. Daz is not a bad guy or out of line at all IMO. Darren was just doing what the vast majority of players do when they are in the heat. Shane has slammed cues, the table, the chalk and anything close to hand. Players have threatened to take other players outside. I have seen it all so much that I just accept Daz talking to himself as a harmless method of dealing with the stress.

I mic the players because people say they want them mic'ed. If the mic's were off for a bathroom break and I forgot to turn them on people said "Why are the mic's off?". If a player says something people don't like then its my fault for having them mic'ed so people can hear it. Its a no win situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

When it comes to commentators I have said it a million times: There is no way to please everyone. Jay does commentary for the Mosconi Cup. Cotton has gotten many positive reviews on all the matches he has done for us. They sign up to sit in that box for four to eight hours and tell it how they see it. I rarely will tell them to do anything because if I didnt want their opinions I wouldn't put them in there in the first place. I dont always agree with them but I respect them enough not to tell them what they should say.

Never in any match has every viewer been happy with the commentary. Not one time. Its a very hard job to talk about pool for six hours without saying something that pisses someone off somewhere in the world.

Last night they got on Darren pretty good. Maybe too much. But I understand that its all part of the moment. These guys had sat there and listened to the muttering for about fifteen hours total up to the point they went off. They dont take a break and watch the football game or go to dinner. They are there for every second of a match and pay attention to everything. So something that will have no impression on a guy who tuned in an hour ago can tilt the hell out of them.

Both players put it all out there this weekend. Both wanted to win and did their best. They didn't go crazy, threaten each other or insult anyone. They put themselves out there for everyone to judge, critique and post opinions about. I am proud of both of them and will work with both again if given the opportunity. Same goes for Bobby and Jay. If that means someone doesnt buy a match because one of them is involved so be it.

100% good TAR match (all aspects!)

 

[JCIN]

I have followed all 3 days and was excited to see this matchup! I did not particularly root for one player as I like the game of both of them. If I had to, I might lean towards Darren since I am European...

I did at no point think, Darren's muttering was totally out of line or too offensive. I cud feel for him. Nevertheless, I felt for a world star in any sports the swearing and muttering was not acceptable. In pool though, it is unfortunately quite common... at the Mosconi Cup I realized again, why pool will never be prime time tv material. I have watched Snooker on TV as well, mostly on BBC. Although, the snooker players look sometimes like emotionless robots, the whole ambiance shows class and does the game justice.

The TAR38 shows a matchup, that would be in Tennis sth like Djokovic vs Nadal. I feel very sorry for pool that this world stars for our sport have to play in the relatively tiny TAR studio with no crowds on-site to follow the match!! I understand from Justin, that Vegas is a tough city for pool and that he gets very little support from the industry. Still, it is a shame in my eyes not to be able to draw a crowd for matches like this.

Nothing against TAR, Justin is doing a great job and I was able to follow some of the greatest pool I ever saw. But matchups like this shud not go down like this. If there was a larger crowd, I feel the players would also behave better in the long run.

Jay and cotton were fine by me as commentators. a little over the line in the end opposing darren's muttering... but since, I learned from Darren that he was hearing what they said, it is not ok from Bob to be so expressively biased.

Darren has definitely not lost due to rolls going only one way. he had his rolls too in an important stage of the 10-ball match. additionally, Denis cudnt make a ball on the break for a long time, which usually is the killer in any game. Darren needs to work on his ability to mentally fade rolls inequality and fade errors made by himself. If he had been able to shrug off the rolls and few "bad" decisions or execution, he wud have had enough changes to win the match anyway.

Anyway, if there is future matches with Darren, Dennis, Jay or Bob, I will watch it anyway. It is entertaining and I can learn a lot from the pros. So keep it up TAR!

my 2 cents
bicki

The TAR studio is what it is. A 1400 sq ft office suite in Las Vegas. Sure it be great to have 200 people in a big arena but if wishes were horses beggars would ride. The fact is people who come to Vegas generally do not want to spend a weekend night in an office space watching two guys play pool no matter who they are.

As to why I dont go do the match in some pool room I'm willing to do just that if someone covers the cost. I won't hold my breath on that one. Having eighty people in the crowd instead of five is not going to sell one more PPV. Thank you for opinions and for watching the match. I appreciate not everything is perfect and thank you for giving a balanced opinion.

 

[CraigS]

I liked the commentary tbh

I actually managed to watch three hours of one pocket, easily a record due to my complete ignorance of the fundamentals of the game, (in England we tend to paint the wall and settle in for a fascinating drying session), without Jay and Bobbies ironic commentary I would have lost all vision and descended into madness much earlier

I enjoyed the 10ball, and the comedy commentating cracked me up often, the jury will return a verdict on how much was intentional (I am assuming there was a sponsorship deal with skittles agreed...)

Daz's grumbling has been blown out of all proportion, a microphone that close will pick up anything and everything.. I am sure Dennis wouldn't have heard and if he did I see no big deal to it, I am just glad that a player of that calibre also has a personal monologue.... I do although I like to think mine are more humorous, I may be deceiving myself


The only real issue I had was first 2hours of every rack in the 8ball, but the God of TAR has said enough on that topic, and that's good enough for me

So, for me a great TAR production and I even managed to avoid the score until I saw the replay the following days (the joy of the time difference).

CraigS

 

[bmsclayton]

event

I am a pretty harsh judge of behavior. Daz is not a bad guy or out of line at all IMO. Darren was just doing what the vast majority of players do when they are in the heat. Shane has slammed cues, the table, the chalk and anything close to hand. Players have threatened to take other players outside. I have seen it all so much that I just accept Daz talking to himself as a harmless method of dealing with the stress.

I mic the players because people say they want them mic'ed. If the mic's were off for a bathroom break and I forgot to turn them on people said "Why are the mic's off?". If a player says something people don't like then its my fault for having them mic'ed so people can hear it. Its a no win situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

When it comes to commentators I have said it a million times: There is no way to please everyone. Jay does commentary for the Mosconi Cup. Cotton has gotten many positive reviews on all the matches he has done for us. They sign up to sit in that box for four to eight hours and tell it how they see it. I rarely will tell them to do anything because if I didnt want their opinions I wouldn't put them in there in the first place. I dont always agree with them but I respect them enough not to tell them what they should say.

Never in any match has every viewer been happy with the commentary. Not one time. Its a very hard job to talk about pool for six hours without saying something that pisses someone off somewhere in the world.

Last night they got on Darren pretty good. Maybe too much. But I understand that its all part of the moment. These guys had sat there and listened to the muttering for about fifteen hours total up to the point they went off. They dont take a break and watch the football game or go to dinner. They are there for every second of a match and pay attention to everything. So something that will have no impression on a guy who tuned in an hour ago can tilt the hell out of them.

Both players put it all out there this weekend. Both wanted to win and did their best. They didn't go crazy, threaten each other or insult anyone. They put themselves out there for everyone to judge, critique and post opinions about. I am proud of both of them and will work with both again if given the opportunity. Same goes for Bobby and Jay. If that means someone doesnt buy a match because one of them is involved so be it.

The event was awesome. I can't imagine the difficulty in being a commentator. If I was Darren though and really could hear everything they were saying I would have went off. I enjoyed the analysis, stories and such. It was kind of funny they complained 10 x more about the whining of DA then there was actual whining.

 

[bowman]

Nothing on the line. Right.

Match ended about half hour ago. Daz just left after getting back on the table and shooting all the shots that gave trouble. Guys do that all the time when it doesn't matter right?

I get you are a self styled gambler. The fact you continually demean TAR matches by saying they don't mean anything is simply bullshit. It may not mean anything to you that two players are not playing on someone else's money and calling it gambling but these matches mean something to the people who produce and play in them.

Instead constantly running down these matches why don't you just go woof up a game the other too cool for school high roller pool gamblers.

....Well said justin that guy is just a born idiot with nothing better do do in his life ..I loved hearing darren muttering away it showed the true feelings off what a player goes through nothing wrong with that at all..

 

[jhanso18]

I am a pretty harsh judge of behavior. Daz is not a bad guy or out of line at all IMO. Darren was just doing what the vast majority of players do when they are in the heat. Shane has slammed cues, the table, the chalk and anything close to hand. Players have threatened to take other players outside. I have seen it all so much that I just accept Daz talking to himself as a harmless method of dealing with the stress.

I mic the players because people say they want them mic'ed. If the mic's were off for a bathroom break and I forgot to turn them on people said "Why are the mic's off?". If a player says something people don't like then its my fault for having them mic'ed so people can hear it. Its a no win situation. Damned if you do damned if you don't.

When it comes to commentators I have said it a million times: There is no way to please everyone. Jay does commentary for the Mosconi Cup. Cotton has gotten many positive reviews on all the matches he has done for us. They sign up to sit in that box for four to eight hours and tell it how they see it. I rarely will tell them to do anything because if I didnt want their opinions I wouldn't put them in there in the first place. I dont always agree with them but I respect them enough not to tell them what they should say.

Never in any match has every viewer been happy with the commentary. Not one time. Its a very hard job to talk about pool for six hours without saying something that pisses someone off somewhere in the world.

Last night they got on Darren pretty good. Maybe too much. But I understand that its all part of the moment. These guys had sat there and listened to the muttering for about fifteen hours total up to the point they went off. They dont take a break and watch the football game or go to dinner. They are there for every second of a match and pay attention to everything. So something that will have no impression on a guy who tuned in an hour ago can tilt the hell out of them.

Both players put it all out there this weekend. Both wanted to win and did their best. They didn't go crazy, threaten each other or insult anyone. They put themselves out there for everyone to judge, critique and post opinions about. I am proud of both of them and will work with both again if given the opportunity. Same goes for Bobby and Jay. If that means someone doesnt buy a match because one of them is involved so be it.

This sums up pretty much every thought I've ever had about TAR. You put on the best product you can with what you have. The bias that comes from Jay and Cotton SOMETIMES, (not all the time.) annoys the hell out of me, but it's worth it for the extra insight they provide. If thats the only negative you can say about the commentary then it must have been pretty darn good! I was way to busy to tune in this weekend. I will be patiently waiting for the PPV option on this one. Sounds like it was a helluva match up!

All the best, and thanks Justin & TAR crew!