For what it is worth, I notice the lathe is turning in reverse and he is dragging the blade across the tip.
I don't get how he trim it with a penknife?
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So like what some have mentioned, your lathe is actually in reverse mode?
I've tried for a month or so everyday but I still can't flush it with the ferrule.
Huh, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about Buddy, just like a couple of other comments.
In the future, if you have any questions, please direct them to the Ask The Cue Maker Forum.
That will hopefully keep the dumb a ss answers to a minimum.
I have actually held some of Darcy's custom cues in my hands and have seen him work up close.
The people with the negative comments would probably blow a load in their shorts if they could produce anything close.
Come on, all you're doing is showing how much you don't know.
Now, for the person that thinks that you can trim a tip with an actual cutting tool instead of a blade, go to the Ask the Cue maker forum and pose the same question.
If you had any experience on a lathe, then you would absolutely know why you can't fully
trim a tip with a cutting tool. If you were able to do that, you would taking the chance of taking ferrule material off in the process.
See, in order to do that or come close, you would have to trim from the left to the right.
if you don't see why isn't a good idea, then that just proves how little you know about cue repair.
If someone has to explain to you why you can't, you probably wouldn't understand the answer anyway.
Thousands of tips on one cutting tool. Shows how little you know about cue repair.
Darcy has posted up many videos from tips to wraps. If anyone can do better, please post up a UTube video.
Run out. What are you talking about. Please explain the comment re Run out. You do realize that you pretty much have zero idea of what you are talking about. Least I hope so. What is this Run out that you are referring to. No Run out on a tip. Never heard that one before.
Maybe a little Run Out on the key board in your house. I would have that checked as soon as possible.
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I also stepped up and defended Darcy on the video.
I haven't done multiple thousands of tips,but done enough to KNOW that with a "normal" utility blade,you have to TRY and snap one.
You also have to be a complete beginner (or close to it) to damage a ferrule with one too.
I use my toolpost cutter and get the tip down within .005 or so per side,and finish with the utility blade.
EVERYONE that has done more than a couple tips knows that it's almost impossible to completely eliminate glue squeeze-out. So that little bit of white stuff you see flying off is never ferrule material,unless you WANT it to be,or have no idea what you are doing.
Getting it flush with a utility blade can be tricky,but is an acquired skill.
I've also been lucky to have never injured myself with a blade,but after a near-miss,I learned something that I will gladly pass along here.
When removing the blade from the package,use a fresh paper towel and wipe the oil off.
Tommy D.
I haven't done multiple thousands of tips,but done enough to KNOW that with a "normal" utility blade,you have to TRY and snap one.
You also have to be a complete beginner (or close to it) to damage a ferrule with one too.
I use my toolpost cutter and get the tip down within .005 or so per side,and finish with the utility blade.
EVERYONE that has done more than a couple tips knows that it's almost impossible to completely eliminate glue squeeze-out. So that little bit of white stuff you see flying off is never ferrule material,unless you WANT it to be,or have no idea what you are doing.
Getting it flush with a utility blade can be tricky,but is an acquired skill.
I've also been lucky to have never injured myself with a blade,but after a near-miss,I learned something that I will gladly pass along here.
When removing the blade from the package,use a fresh paper towel and wipe the oil off.
Tommy D.
Thanks Tommy. In case anyone is wondering, Tommy has more experience with lathes and milling machines in his sleep than most posting dumb a ss answers in this thread.
It appears I missed a few things.
Runout exists. However,for the purposes of simply putting a tip on,it won't matter unless it's waaay over .005,and maybe not even then.
The ONLY way you can use a lathe cutter to trim a tip totally flush goes like this.
Priority one,your lathe spindle/chuck has to be within .001 accuracy.
Two,your lathe carriage has to have a zero-resettable dial,or a setup using an indicator.
Three,you have to touch off on the ferrule with the spindle OFF,and set your zero there,then back out enough to clear the ferrule,start cutting the tip and work your way back to zero. If your accuracy isn't 100%,you go into the leather too far and maybe the ferrule too.
Even using this method,it's better if you leave yourself a tiny bit of tip to sand,so you can get the ferrule cleaned. A .001 shim comes in handy here.
This isn't even taking into consideration the accuracy of your collet,the possibility of the shaft not being perfectly round,how much you leave sticking out of the chuck,your touch-off pressure,and maybe a couple other factors I'm not just spitting out off the top of my head,LOL.
Even perfectly ground HSS lathe tools will certainly NOT give you thousands of uses. I've used it and you can tell after just 10 tips. This is why Bob DZ touches his parting tool up before EVERY tip.
Carbide takes longer to dull,but even then you can't get even 1000 uses before it needs to be sharpened on a grinder or honed on a diamond stone.
The chuck on Darcy's lathe isn't spinning in reverse either,it just looks like it because of the lighting.
The reason the ferrule is short is because it's a Predator. Tommy D.
Runout exists. However,for the purposes of simply putting a tip on,it won't matter unless it's waaay over .005,and maybe not even then.
The ONLY way you can use a lathe cutter to trim a tip totally flush goes like this.
Priority one,your lathe spindle/chuck has to be within .001 accuracy.
Two,your lathe carriage has to have a zero-resettable dial,or a setup using an indicator.
Three,you have to touch off on the ferrule with the spindle OFF,and set your zero there,then back out enough to clear the ferrule,start cutting the tip and work your way back to zero. If your accuracy isn't 100%,you go into the leather too far and maybe the ferrule too.
Even using this method,it's better if you leave yourself a tiny bit of tip to sand,so you can get the ferrule cleaned. A .001 shim comes in handy here.
This isn't even taking into consideration the accuracy of your collet,the possibility of the shaft not being perfectly round,how much you leave sticking out of the chuck,your touch-off pressure,and maybe a couple other factors I'm not just spitting out off the top of my head,LOL.
Even perfectly ground HSS lathe tools will certainly NOT give you thousands of uses. I've used it and you can tell after just 10 tips. This is why Bob DZ touches his parting tool up before EVERY tip.
Carbide takes longer to dull,but even then you can't get even 1000 uses before it needs to be sharpened on a grinder or honed on a diamond stone.
The chuck on Darcy's lathe isn't spinning in reverse either,it just looks like it because of the lighting.
The reason the ferrule is short is because it's a Predator. Tommy D.
RBC
Deceased
sorry. that was awful. he massacared that ferrule. great technique if you like to taper by a few millimeters each tip change.
also, i dont understand the comment about cutting tools he made. it would be far better to use a simple cutting knife on the lathe and slowly dial it in to remove the "runout"
you may need to replace a steel cutting knife after several thousand tips
Actually, the method he used is the best way to trim a tip to a ferrule without cutting the ferrule down.
First, when he scraped the end of the ferrule with the razor blade he only removed the excess tip and glue that was left after cutting the old one off. Many will use the cross slide and lathe tool for this, and they will remove as much as 1/32" from the end of the ferrule each time they replace the tip. Before long you end up with a shorter ferrule and cue shaft.
Second, using the lathe tool to trip the tip to the ferrule cannot account for the ferrule being out of round, which is almost always the case. If you try to get the tip all the way to the ferrule, you will cut into the ferrule on the high spots before you get the low spots flush. Once you've done that, the only thing you can do is to go ahead and cut the rest of the ferrule down to the new smaller size. By using the blade, you can get the tip down flush with the ferrule on both the low and high spots at the same time. The reason is that the blade will move with the ferrule whereas the lathe cutting tool is fixed in relation to the lathe centerline.
I've been doing this for over 20 years and have done tens of thousands of tips. I've made jigs, altered machines, programmed CNC's etc. And for a tip replacement, I still do it with a blade.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
RBC
Deceased
Actually, the way he trimmed the old tip and glue left after cutting it off is the best method that can be used.
The razor blade will allow you to scrape away the old without removing any tangible amount of ferrule material. Also, because it cuts a rotating ferrule on both the up and the down, it keeps things very flat. Basically, it's impossible to make it not flat.
If you use the lathe cutting tool there are a few inherent problems.
First, it's difficult to tell how much you're actually cutting, and you end up cutting more than you wanted too. We see this on our carbon fiber pads when they are cut down thinner which can cause them to fail.
Next, depending on the type of cutting tool you have mounted on the lathe, the pressure can be high enough to cause the ferrule to "give" away from the cut. This leads to a poor surface finish and a surface that may no be flat. The number one cause for tips that come off prematurely is either the tip or the ferrule are not flat causing the tip to "rock" under impact which breaks the glue bond completely.
If you do tips, you should try it. It's really better and faster, and it's certainly the best way to not cut your customer's ferrule away with each new tip.
Royce Bunnell
www.obcues.com
You still haven't let us know ho you actually trim it. Is your lathe rotating in a reverse direction? I would like to practice and have this skill using blades to trim tips as well. When I place the blade, it either gets stuck or it just goes straight without cutting anything.
I was trying to trim a 14mm tip on a 12.3mm ferrule.
You still haven't let us know ho you actually trim it. Is your lathe rotating in a reverse direction? I would like to practice and have this skill using blades to trim tips as well. When I place the blade, it either gets stuck or it just goes straight without cutting anything.
I was trying to trim a 14mm tip on a 12.3mm ferrule.
Watch the second video I posted.
The lathe spins forward,
Trim the tip close with your tool post cutter then finish with a fresh razor blade.
It is a learned skill and will take practice to do it correctly...
Do you align the penknife at an angle or just straight against the ferrule?
It's a learning curve.
I hold it at an angle so the contact point with the carbon blade is small.
Okay. I'll try it soon again. Is it possible that it's a little thick that's why my blade ain't going through? I'm trimming a 14mm tip on a 12.3mm ferrule.
That makes it tougher. You can take small passes with the knife the same way you would with a tool
So the best to trim it with a blade would be like a 14mm on a 13mm ferrule I guess?
It is pretty tought to have a go at a tip over 2 mm on a smaller ferrule.
This is when you can use your Right hand cutter and trim a bit of the excess off from Right to left.
You can safely take enuff off and get close to the ferrule without damaging the ferrule.
You don't want to go from Left to Right as you would be putting undue pressure on the newly glued tip and the layers themselves.
When you Chuck Up on the shaft and have too much of the shaft sticking out, as Royce mentioned, you can cause the shaft to deflect away from the cutting tool if you were to try and make too large a pass all at once.
Tiny bit at a time, it isn't a race.
I mentioned to you earlier that I use a 1/8th piece of square stock in a tool holder to
rest the blade on. This is because I don't use the box cutter knife that Darcy does.
I free wheel it with a Utility blade. And yes, you have to watch what you are doing in case the tip were to kick the blade back into your fingers.
Moisten the tip and cut at an angle. Not square or straight across. This way, you will only cut or catch a small piece of the tip on your initial pass.
For tips that seem to have a bit of coating on them or not, you can use a piece of 400 grit to give the tip a little scuff when it is turning. That way it will be easier for the tip to accept a dab of water from a sponge or your finger.
And also thanks Royce for adding a few of your points and tips that you use to do a tip.
Always more than one way to skin a cat, as long as the basic principle isn't violated and the end result is a great tip job for the customer.
This is when you can use your Right hand cutter and trim a bit of the excess off from Right to left.
You can safely take enuff off and get close to the ferrule without damaging the ferrule.
You don't want to go from Left to Right as you would be putting undue pressure on the newly glued tip and the layers themselves.
When you Chuck Up on the shaft and have too much of the shaft sticking out, as Royce mentioned, you can cause the shaft to deflect away from the cutting tool if you were to try and make too large a pass all at once.
Tiny bit at a time, it isn't a race.
I mentioned to you earlier that I use a 1/8th piece of square stock in a tool holder to
rest the blade on. This is because I don't use the box cutter knife that Darcy does.
I free wheel it with a Utility blade. And yes, you have to watch what you are doing in case the tip were to kick the blade back into your fingers.
Moisten the tip and cut at an angle. Not square or straight across. This way, you will only cut or catch a small piece of the tip on your initial pass.
For tips that seem to have a bit of coating on them or not, you can use a piece of 400 grit to give the tip a little scuff when it is turning. That way it will be easier for the tip to accept a dab of water from a sponge or your finger.
And also thanks Royce for adding a few of your points and tips that you use to do a tip.
Always more than one way to skin a cat, as long as the basic principle isn't violated and the end result is a great tip job for the customer.
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No wonder I ain't doing sh!t. LoL.
Thank you so much! I would trim it down first before trying this method again.
Sad to say, mine's just a DIY one with a drill. I'm still saving money for a Chris Hightower lathe. Still surviving on pocket money.