Bonus Ball $ Added To Players On AZB?
- Thread starter Johnnyt
- Start date
Each player is paid after the match.
I don't mean any disrespect, Johnnyt, but here we go again......
These players are under contract (fact).
Payment and other financial aspects are part of that contract (fact).
If Bonus Ball is smart (and I know they are) they're not going to advertise
"pay outs" on its employees just to appease fans.
This is not a tournament. This is an entity in business to make money.
I don't expect Walmart to provide payouts about its employees.
It's none of my business.
If Bonus Ball Is to be legitimate, then we have to expect it to run like a business.
That includes abiding by its own contracts and best practices—whatever they are.
I am willing to bet it doesn't include divulging its financial information ad hoc.
Let's just enjoy the game.
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The salaries of other sports are made public. Even the total of all salaries for each team. No disrespect, but I don't buy that reason. Johnnyt
Point well taken, Johnnyt.
I would imagine though that with any fledgling business, making initial financial information public would be bad business practice.
Divulging this info could even be a waste of time as these finances don't, and will not, represent the anticipated numbers to come later.
Things are too new and payment is probably contingent on certain other factors, e.g. internet and jersey sales, 3rd-party contract acquisitions (ESPN3?).
We probably wouldn't want to see the payment information right now—its most likely too confusing anyways.
I'm sure in time once Bonus Ball establishes itself and subsequent contracts are drawn, there should be income streams for all to see.
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Sounds good. I hope that's the plan. I want to know how much I'll make when they start the Bar Table Bonus Ball. :smile:. Johnnyt
The AzB money for pro players is just an estimate. I don't think it is possible to include every single venue which provided income.
Also, I don't think it is updated on a daily basis. Someday down the road, though, it will probably feature the BB monies.
It looks as if the pool political winds are changing with BB in recent times. I have my thoughts as to why, but I'll be mum on the topic. :grin-square:
Anything that infuses money in the pool world, whether it is playing pool, advertising, commentating opportunities, et cetera, will always bring out new fans.
Also, I don't think it is updated on a daily basis. Someday down the road, though, it will probably feature the BB monies.
It looks as if the pool political winds are changing with BB in recent times. I have my thoughts as to why, but I'll be mum on the topic. :grin-square:
Anything that infuses money in the pool world, whether it is playing pool, advertising, commentating opportunities, et cetera, will always bring out new fans.
I used to be for Bonus Ball when it first came out, because my pool preferences are usually in the direction of favoring the professional pool player.
But when I was informed how the Bonus Ball deliberately, with malice aforethought, scheduled on top of both Tunica tournaments, thereby resulting in forcing the BB pros that had signed up for Tunica to withdraw their names, that changed my mind. I just do not understand how they could have stabbed Greg Sullivan in the back, the way they did, and then alienate Badi Nazdat (Ultimate 10-Ball Championship) by their indignation to his efforts. THAT pissed me off.
Today, I am happy for the BB players who are able to earn an income. In this regard, I see good coming from BB.
Since the BB debacle, however, you have seen Mark Griffin pull back his reins on professional pool tournaments. Mark Griffin also has ceased involvement with TAR, which I believe was for business reasons, more so than a disdain for professional pool players. I do believe that BB has affected Mark Griffin's selection criteria for future pool happenings, and I understand why.
In sum, I am happy for those who are benefiting from BB. I hate Las Vegas, though, as the venue location. I personally believe many marriages and unions have been ruined because of the the activities that occur in Las Vegas. It's the devil's playground, as far as I'm concerned. Sex, drugs, and rock and roll all you want. There comes a time when people grow old and like to have somebody there with them to share their heart with. :smile:
Thank you, JAM. Yes, I heard the same news a while back. I have to admit, that was certainly "dog-eat-dog" when BB decided to trump other schedules.
Was it clever business? Maybe
Was it morally right? No
Did it "shake up" (and perhaps "wake up") others in the industry to the potential changes to come? Most likely
Please note that this wasn't the first time players have been "forced" to boycott or "withdraw" from an event.
Remember when the ABP "told" its members to boycott certain tournaments because the money "wasn't there?"
Clever business sense by Johnny Archer, et al? Many supported that move.
And now I believe that created a sense of attention to pre-tournament finances.
I feel bad for those affected by the innovative newcomer.
I hope both Greg and Badi can "get tough" and realize no-nonsense business (not necessarily being a good guy/gal)
has to be injected into pool in order for it get it's boots back on the ground and running.
"We have to break a few eggs in order to make an omelette," as the saying goes.....
I don't condone underhandedness, but I feel we are ALL going to be thanking Larry for his contributions.
History is replete with the pioneers and innovators being the "bad guy" only to turn out to be the "good guy."
Yes, Bonus Ball has indeed shaken up the pool world and hopefully, that wakes everyone out of heir slumber to getter BETTER and SMARTER in all aspects of our industry.
As we know, any good that happens will inevitably be preceded by a little pain and discomfort.
We just have to learn to appreciate that pain, and understand that it will only make us stronger.
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I'm not buying much of this. The implication here that Bonus Ball is run like an exemplary business to which other pool entrepreneurs should pay attention is truly comical.
The management team at Bonus Ball was dismissive and arrogant with respect to some its potential fan base and its business model was so poor that it could not meet payroll within a few weeks of its competitive launch.
Although we see some positive developments in the WPBL product, we still see no evidence that Bonus Ball is a viable business in which revenues will, one day, exceed costs. I wish the WPBL well and will support them, but there's no evidence of any kind to this point that they are better than Badi or Mark G at making a pool enterprise work.
Good luck to all involved with Bonus Ball.
Thanks for your feedback, sjm.
I didn't imply that BB is run like an exemplary business.
I'm not judging them in that regard. The bottom line is that they ARE a business. Simple as that.
Whether they're arrogant or dismissive is fine to argue, viable or not just the same.
I certainly don't lay claim as to whether BB is better than Badi or Mark G. I'm not comparing hats here
All of that was not my point. Nonetheless, I respect that you don't buy into my perspective.
Isn't interesting though that as soon as BB gets on ESPN3 Justin has now "retired" his TAR product.
Business moves tend to beget other business moves in ANY industry. It will continue to happen and
as BB hopefully continues to mark its footprint in the pool world will we see other changes in our sport.
As you probably know, the business world is not friendly. It requires tenacity, courage, and guts.
Larry apparently possesses those traits. If he step on toes, he has to deal with that.
In the meantime he has created something, involved the pros, produced it, and got it on TV.
BB has followed through on it's short-term goals, e.g. playoffs and garnered ESPN3 coverage. For crying out
loud! What can't others be happy with success in our sport? Why do we have to always focus on the money
aspect? It's not even our dime.....
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So I guess that sense of attention to finances you speak of was short lived. For in didn't appear that sense helped the bonus ball players. As in ABP and Johnny Archer making
sure the money for the first season or even the first half of the first season was there for the players.
If I'm not mistaken that's one of the few things the ABP claims to do, make sure the monies are there for the players.
Unfortunately for the the Bonus Ball players this sense you speak of only extended as far as the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. I might be wrong but in my memory the
first season of Bonus Ball only lasted 6 weeks and then they weren't paid.
What were you paying attention to that would bring you to the conclusion below?????
Quote from boogeyman:
"Please note that this wasn't the first time players have been "forced" to boycott or "withdraw" from an event.
Remember when the ABP "told" its members to boycott certain tournaments because the money "wasn't there?"
Clever business sense by Johnny Archer, et al? Many supported that move.
And now I believe that created a sense of attention to pre-tournament finances."
sure the money for the first season or even the first half of the first season was there for the players.
If I'm not mistaken that's one of the few things the ABP claims to do, make sure the monies are there for the players.
Unfortunately for the the Bonus Ball players this sense you speak of only extended as far as the U.S. Open 9-Ball Championship. I might be wrong but in my memory the
first season of Bonus Ball only lasted 6 weeks and then they weren't paid.
What were you paying attention to that would bring you to the conclusion below?????
Quote from boogeyman:
"Please note that this wasn't the first time players have been "forced" to boycott or "withdraw" from an event.
Remember when the ABP "told" its members to boycott certain tournaments because the money "wasn't there?"
Clever business sense by Johnny Archer, et al? Many supported that move.
And now I believe that created a sense of attention to pre-tournament finances."
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I like your post until the last paragraph.
Here's why the money matters to everybody who cares about pro pool:
The WPBL has reduced , and as long as it remains on the scene, will continue to reduce the access of other pool entrepreneurs to some of the game's best players. In some cases, those other entrepreneurs have split the scene and may or may not ever invest in our sport again. Some may say that this is just business, and some will say that the WPBL has no responsibility for this result, and perhaps they are right and perhaps they are wrong.
But the financial vitality of the WPBL effects us all. The what ifs are worth considering:
What If Bonus Ball Make It as a Business?
If the WPBL business model is turned around and it becomes a sustainable business, players will make money, fans will tune in, and sponsors inside and outside of pool may get involved. In this scenario, more WPBL teams could emerge both in America and internationally and pool could turn the corner and become a viable profession for many. Yes, that would be nice.
What If Bonus Ball Doesn't Make It as a Business?
If the WPBL business model fails to make it a sustainable enterprise, it will likely fold this year or next. Between now and then, however, some current and would-be pool entrepreneurs may turn their attentions elsewhere as their access to the players is presently less than they'd like. It has already happened to some extent, and who among us doesn't fear that the US Open 9-ball event might not be the next casualty? If Bonus Ball fails, the players whose fortunes were tied to it may return to an ever more diminished competitive landscape than that of today.
The matter is not so simple, and I will, just this once, resist the temptation to write a "full lecture" on the subject, but the success or failure of the WPBL has great significance to more than it's proprietors, employees, and players. It effects fans, current pool entrepreneurs, would-be pool entrepreneurs, and those who have grown accustomed to having access to the players with relative ease.
Yup, it's not my dime, but what happens here is very important to me and will remain so.
You wrote this,
Quote from boogeyman:
Please note that this wasn't the first time players have been "forced" to boycott or "withdraw" from an event.
Remember when the ABP "told" its members to boycott certain tournaments because the money "wasn't there?"
Clever business sense by Johnny Archer, et al? Many supported that move.
And now I believe that created a sense of attention to pre-tournament finances.
You put this out there like Bonus Ball with a forced boycott was a good thing.
(It wasn't)
Then you go further by acting like what the ABP and Johnny Archer did with Barry's
tournament created a new sense of financial awareness. (it obviously didn't)
You wave these things out here in front of us like a flag in your post like they were great things.
(I must live in a different Universe)
Then you ask, "Why do we always have to focus on the money aspect?"
My talking about the money was only in reply to you talking about the money,
If you hadn't tried to portray these two instances as (well done guys) in your post
I wouldn't have even posted anything.
Quote from boogeyman:
Please note that this wasn't the first time players have been "forced" to boycott or "withdraw" from an event.
Remember when the ABP "told" its members to boycott certain tournaments because the money "wasn't there?"
Clever business sense by Johnny Archer, et al? Many supported that move.
And now I believe that created a sense of attention to pre-tournament finances.
You put this out there like Bonus Ball with a forced boycott was a good thing.
(It wasn't)
Then you go further by acting like what the ABP and Johnny Archer did with Barry's
tournament created a new sense of financial awareness. (it obviously didn't)
You wave these things out here in front of us like a flag in your post like they were great things.
(I must live in a different Universe)
Then you ask, "Why do we always have to focus on the money aspect?"
My talking about the money was only in reply to you talking about the money,
If you hadn't tried to portray these two instances as (well done guys) in your post
I wouldn't have even posted anything.
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Itsfroze: The main point of my quote was that players have been previously forced to boycott or withdraw from events.
(The attention to monies secured was, yes, a short-lived consequence.)
That is what some are claiming (probably with good reason) Bonus Ball did when they scheduled over other events.
I don't begrudge that the ABP did that. They did what they felt was good for their org and its members.
When Bonus Ball attempt to engage in this type of business practice they get chastised as if they are doing something illegal.
I don't care for the double standard in our industry.
If someone is trying to compete for dollars then as long as they are doing it legally, putting morals aside, then so be it.
It takes courage to stand up and do something innovative.
Well, I'm sure glad that you are giving such industry "weight" to Bonus Ball.
If competition scares off other industry wanna-bes then they simply shouldn't go into business.
They will not make it with that type of attitude.
If pro players decide to sign up for something and engage in contracts then they are big boys and girls.
That's on them. They can do whatever they want. READ THE CONTRACT BEFORE SIGNING.
Why didn't SVB sign onto Bonus Ball? I don't know for sure, but he is not stupid. He probably read the contract and didn't like the parameters.
And so it probably went for a few others pros. Your "what ifs" don't mean too much.
Why does everyone else have to wait for Bonus Ball to succeed and then join the spoils?
On the other hand, why does everyone have to wait for Bonus Ball to fail to then blame things on them.
Go do your own thing or else quit soothsaying.