Gareth Potts vs SVB.. who wins?

voiceofreason said:
I have never played on a C8B table. Ever.

I have played on an American table, a snooker table and an E8B table. All three are cut differently. If you were to play any game at all, any game, on all three tables - they would be different.

Balls, cut, cues, cloth - all completely different.

So I cannot agree with the point that E8B and C8B are similar and I also contest that winning two major titles in the those two different disciplines with a matter of weeks of each other is some achievement.

To argue otherwise is troll posting frankly.
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But the general rules and goals are practically the same.

Tougher equipment doesn't make the game different.

This doesn't mean a player who excels in one variation would excel in another. It simply means that winning titles in variations of one game does NOT make you a champion in multiple disciplines.
 
BeiberLvr said:
But the general rules and goals are practically the same.
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Not at all, but I don't think I shall waste any time trying to explain
Tougher equipment doesn't make the game different.
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Wow - that has to be a troll post.. right??

This doesn't mean a player who excels in one variation would excel in another.
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This seems to contradict your first point above.

I claim this as general troll posting and I claim my two dollar bounty..
 
voiceofreason said:
I agree. Excellent.

However, you have to agree that, at the least, the cut, the balls, the cloth and the cues are the same for all American games. All that changes is the size of the tables and, sometimes, the size of the pockets.

...agreed

As a side issue, how does SVB do on the tighter tables?

Generally speaking as pockets get tighter, the premium on shot-making accuracy increases and the premium on a powerful stroke decreases. Exact same thing happens when you move off of 860 and onto a crushed velvet playing surface, or you move to lighter balls. All of these changes work to incrementally reduce the advantages of a player like SVB. However, move onto a Valley bar-box that has totally worn cloth where the cueball is bigger and heavier than all the other object balls that are also covered in a layer of dried beer gunk, and suddenly SVB can seem unbeatable.

But, coming right back to the OP, to look for a four discipline match up, putting three of them on american equipment, is simply not fair.

...agreed

And C8B is not even Pott's first discipline - leastways, not until this year..
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Having said all this, I really enjoy watching GP play - I've watched him in numerous money match streams - and his instructional videos on youtube are very good.
 
voiceofreason said:
Not at all, but I don't think I shall waste any time trying to explain
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If the ultimate goal of either E8B, A8B, and C8B is not to pocket 7 balls (stripes, solids, yellows, reds) and then the black ball/8 ball, then I'll retract my earlier statements and declare you winner of this thread.
 
BeiberLvr said:
If the ultimate goal of either E8B, A8B, and C8B is not to pocket 7 balls (stripes, solids, yellows, reds) and then the black ball/8 ball, then I'll retract my earlier statements and declare you winner of this thread.
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Two more dollars for my holiday fund..
 
BeiberLvr said:
Tougher equipment doesn't make the game different.
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I disagree....it can be very different.

I first started one-pocket on a 5x10 snooker table.....
...it took me months to beat some players even on a 9 ft pool table that were
getting weight on the 5x10.

Mike Sigel offered Bobby Leggs the 7 on a 9 ft....
...Leggs offered him the 7 on a bar box...
...neither one would go to the other's table.

I've lost to players even on a Robertson that quit me getting the 7 on a Gold Crown.

pt...thinks Potts and Van Boening are great players
....hopes Beiber stays south of the border...:)
 
pt109 said:
I disagree....it can be very different.

I first started one-pocket on a 5x10 snooker table.....
...it took me months to beat some players even on a 9 ft pool table that were
getting weight on the 5x10.

Mike Sigel offered Bobby Leggs the 7 on a 9 ft....
...Leggs offered him the 7 on a bar box...
...neither one would go to the other's table.

I've lost to players even on a Robertson that quit me getting the 7 on a Gold Crown.

pt...thinks Potts and Van Boening are great players
....hopes Beiber stays south of the border...:)
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Sure, equipment can make a game tougher or easier, but the rules are still the same or very similar.

If I win a 9 ball tournament on a 9' table this weekend, and then next weekend win one on a 10' table. I'm not going to start calling myself a champion in multiple disciplines.
 
The rules may be the same, but the strategy with 8-ball on that Chinese table is a lot different from American tables from the matches I've seen.
Shots along the rail are near impossible unless you get near perfect shape and even then are still very high risk, so you often have to play to knock your balls off the rails, or move them while playing safe. This results in a lot of 2-way shots that you would rarely see in American 8-ball. Also, because of the difficulty of pocketing long shots, especially down the rails, leaving distance will often result in an adequate safety and banks to the corner pockets are not worth attempting unless it's a sure two-way shot. A player familiar with snooker strategy will have a big advantage playing on those tables.
 
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BeiberLvr said:
Sure, equipment can make a game tougher or easier, but the rules are still the same or very similar.

If I win a 9 ball tournament on a 9' table this weekend, and then next weekend win one on a 10' table. I'm not going to start calling myself a champion in multiple disciplines.
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I hope you can see how different these games are.

You might as well argue that Snooker is the same after all you are just using a cue
to hit a cue ball onto a OB that goes into a pocket.

All cue sports have similarities but different tactics, rules and disciplines.
 
BeiberLvr said:
Sure, equipment can make a game tougher or easier, but the rules are still the same or very similar.

If I win a 9 ball tournament on a 9' table this weekend, and then next weekend win one on a 10' table. I'm not going to start calling myself a champion in multiple disciplines.
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The comparison doesn't work at all. If you're playing on nine or ten foot American pool tables then you're on essentially the same equipment only a different size (with possibly slightly different sized pockets).

Going from an American pool table to an English pool table you have... different cloth, different cushions, different pocket facings, different table size, different pocket size, different ball size, different cue, etc.. It's a different game, and it's massive transition from one to another.
 
TheThaiger said:
Sadly, I don't think he is trolling.
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I haven't wallowed through the thread, but I am hungry.

I don't understand the debate of Potts/ svb victor.

I recall reading of a match (svb/ orcullo, iirc) where they broke/ ran nearly every game. To me, that means that the skill Available exceeds that require by the game.

To me, the debate is similar to discussing which 2 basketball players can jump a foot-high the best.
 
SakuJack said:
The comparison doesn't work at all. If you're playing on nine or ten foot American pool tables then you're on essentially the same equipment only a different size (with possibly slightly different sized pockets).

Going from an American pool table to an English pool table you have... different cloth, different cushions, different pocket facings, different table size, different pocket size, different ball size, different cue, etc.. It's a different game, and it's massive transition from one to another.
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I would also add in the difference in rules. E8B rules are vastly different to A8B/C8B. The difference between the rules for World, EPA and Blackball is big enough, each requiring a different skill set. That Potts has picked up A8B/C8B rules so quickly is impressive, but it is simply impossible for anyone unfamiliar with E8B rules to become tactically proficient in them as quickly, which is why any American pro would lose to county or even decent league players.

Safety play is HUGELY important in E8B, less so in A8B/C8B. In fact, I don't remember Potts playing many safety shots at all in the 2013 final, if any. But if racks come down to safety battles the E8B lads are going to be hot favourite in any game that doesn't have buckets for pockets.

I love the way Americans differentiate between 8/9/10 ball, 1P, banks etc, as if it's a huge achievement to be good at all of them. They're the same damn game. Same table, same cues, same balls, same shots. They do tend to be easily impressed.
 
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Black-Balled said:
I haven't wallowed through the thread, but I am hungry.

I don't understand the debate of Potts/ svb victor.

I recall reading of a match (svb/ orcullo, iirc) where they broke/ ran nearly every game. To me, that means that the skill Available exceeds that require by the game.

To me, the debate is similar to discussing which 2 basketball players can jump a foot-high the best.
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SVB has bust American pool, or rather his break has.
 
TheThaiger said:
I would also add in the difference in rules. E8B rules are vastly different to A8B/C8B. The difference between the rules for World, EPA and Blackball is big enough, each requiring a different skill set. That Potts has picked up A8B/C8B rules so quickly is impressive, but it is simply impossible for anyone unfamiliar with E8B rules to become tactically proficient in them as quickly, which is why any American pro would lose to county or even decent league players.

Safety play is HUGELY important in E8B, less so in A8B/C8B. In fact, I don't remember Potts playing many safety shots at all in the 2013 final, if any. But if racks come down to safety battles the E8B lads are going to be hot favourite in any game that doesn't have buckets for pockets.

I love the way Americans differentiate between 8/9/10 ball, 1P, banks etc, as if it's a huge achievement to be good at all of them. They're the same damn game. Same table, same cues, same balls, same shots. They do tend to be easily impressed.
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they are the same game? i guess E8B, C8B are the same game too?

Shane could beat Potts in English 8 ball. Chinese 8 ball is cheesy so who cares

i'm hungry
 
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SakuJack said:
The comparison doesn't work at all. If you're playing on nine or ten foot American pool tables then you're on essentially the same equipment only a different size (with possibly slightly different sized pockets).

Going from an American pool table to an English pool table you have... different cloth, different cushions, different pocket facings, different table size, different pocket size, different ball size, different cue, etc.. It's a different game, and it's massive transition from one to another.
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It's hard for me to believe that people are ranking Potts with Shane. In my opinion no one is the favorite playing Shane in any discipline that he plays. To even compare the two players is ridiculous. To many ifs involved..... If Shane played C8B....he doesn't . If Shane played Snooker... He doesn't . Shane takes on the world and idk if Potts does the same but I do know that Shane's challenging a much larger field
 
peteypooldude said:
It's hard for me to believe that people are ranking Potts with Shane. In my opinion no one is the favorite playing Shane in any discipline that he plays. To even compare the two players is ridiculous. To many ifs involved..... If Shane played C8B....he doesn't . If Shane played Snooker... He doesn't . Shane takes on the world and idk if Potts does the same but I do know that Shane's challenging a much larger field
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Lol. And I repeat; lol.
 
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