A Report from the Lou v. Barton Match

K

kollegedave

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Those of you who have been sweating this match may have noticed John’s rough start. You also may have noticed that several games into the match the quality of John’s decisions improved and he began shooting more sophisticated shots. For example, John took an intentional behind two balls on the spot at one point that put Lou in a tough spot.

There was an African American man sitting next to Barton and his wife. Lou could not see this man at first. From Lou’s perspective, this guy was behind a pillar. Between shots, this man would cover his mouth and whisper to Barton.

A couple of guys who were sweating the match that had a different perspective than Lou noticed this, but they did not say anything.

After play last night, Barton was confronted with the accusation that he was being coached; he admitted it.

There are some things people should notice about the actions of John Barton in this match:

1) He barked at Lou incessantly to raise the bet, and then failed to do so

2) Barton claimed that he would take all sorts of bets on side, including an additional $500 a game with Lou, and he failed to do that

3) John and Lou negotiated all sorts of rules and stipulations prior to this match, which Barton very publicly made reference to at least once last night after he moved a bunch of balls with a follow-through on a shot; NO WHERE in their negotiations was there a provision that allowed either player to receive coaching.

In my view, and in the view of people in Lou’s camp, Barton cheated for a good portion of last night’s action.

kollegedave
 
easy-e said:
Was there a stipulation that said they could NOT be coached?
Click to expand...

The action I've been around....no coaching is understood.

If any stipulation has to be made....it would be 'coaching allowed'
 
No

However, I have been in pool halls since I was 14 (I am 34 now) and coaching has always been something that was viewed as an advantage, and absent an agreement to allow it, my experience is that such conduct is viewed as cheating, and in some places, unconsented to coaching would be viewed as good cause to back out of the game or perform any number of unpleasant actions on the perpatrator.

kollegedave
 
pt109 said:
The action I've been around....no coaching is understood.

If any stipulation has to be made....it would be 'coaching allowed'
Click to expand...

Perhaps it was was mental coaching. Nothing wrong with a pat on the back during the match. I'm just trying to point out that we don't have any details.
 
easy-e said:
Was there a stipulation that said they could NOT be coached?
Click to expand...

If it was allowed, I'm sure Lou wouldn't have taken issue with it. And from what I'm told, he was bothered by it but didn't make a big deal about it... as John would have had the shoe been on the other foot.
 
kollegedave said:
No

However, I have been in pool halls since I was 14 (I am 34 now) and coaching has always been something that was viewed as an advantage, and absent an agreement to allow it, my experience is that such conduct is viewed as cheating, and in some places, unconsented to coaching would be viewed as good cause to back out of the game or perform any number of unpleasant actions on the perpatrator.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

not that it really matters but this is my view as well.

bert
 
easy-e said:
Perhaps it was was mental coaching. Nothing wrong with a pat on the back during the match. I'm just trying to point out that we don't have any details.
Click to expand...

What details are needed. Barton admitted to it. Also, his play cleary improved VERY quickly and suddenly.

Also, this coach is no slouch; my information is that he plays a number of champs even.

kollegedave
 
This is not right, but I'm glad John admitted it. If I was playing him I'd make him take a one game penalty or at least lose a break or give up 2 balls or something.

One shot can make the difference in a set at times, especially if the guy is one game ahead and ties it instead of going 2 behind.

I watched much of the match and Lou clearly outplayed John. One interesting thing I noticed is that a lot of John's shots that were soft and just bobble the pockets stayed out, while Lou's very similarly hit shots went in. That to me shows that Lou knows where to aim at the pocket better than John.


kollegedave said:
Those of you who have been sweating this match may have noticed John’s rough start. You also may have noticed that several games into the match the quality of John’s decisions improved and he began shooting more sophisticated shots. For example, John took an intentional behind two balls on the spot at one point that put Lou in a tough spot.

There was an African American man sitting next to Barton and his wife. Lou could not see this man at first. From Lou’s perspective, this guy was behind a pillar. Between shots, this man would cover his mouth and whisper to Barton.

A couple of guys who were sweating the match that had a different perspective than Lou noticed this, but they did not say anything.

After play last night, Barton was confronted with the accusation that he was being coached; he admitted it.

There are some things people should notice about the actions of John Barton in this match:

1) He barked at Lou incessantly to raise the bet, and then failed to do so

2) Barton claimed that he would take all sorts of bets on side, including an additional $500 a game with Lou, and he failed to do that

3) John and Lou negotiated all sorts of rules and stipulations prior to this match, which Barton very publicly made reference to at least once last night after he moved a bunch of balls with a follow-through on a shot; NO WHERE in their negotiations was there a provision that allowed either player to receive coaching.

In my view, and in the view of people in Lou’s camp, Barton cheated for a good portion of last night’s action.

kollegedave
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
kollegedave said:
What details are needed. Barton admitted to it. Also, his play cleary improved VERY quickly and suddenly.

Also, this coach is no slouch; my information is that he plays a number of champs even.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

You already have your mind made up then, thanks for sharing this story about what your friend told you.
 
I don't see how you can come up with a penalty after the fact. If I was Lou, I would just agree that both players have to sit away from everyone for the rest of the match.
 
kollegedave said:
What details are needed. Barton admitted to it. Also, his play cleary improved VERY quickly and suddenly.

Also, this coach is no slouch; my information is that he plays a number of champs even.

kollegedave
Click to expand...

Shortly before I had to turn it off and go to bed, I swear I heard on the commentary someone talking about John receiving advice from a strong 1p player on the rail during Lou's turns. didn't mention who, but I'm 99% sure it was discussed at least briefly from the booth.

I know it's not 10k gambling matches, but in league play you're allowed to receive advice when it's the opponent's turn at the table. In your inning, you have to take a time out, and you only get one per rack.

I would think that in a gambling match, it would be at least frowned upon, but probably worse.
 
While watching I don't recall a time when John was slow to approach the table. I'm not saying there wasn't any coaching going on but I bet it didn't have a lot to do with the outcome of the match last night.

I would be certain to address this coaching issue before play continues tonight though.
 
I do have to say, that scratch he took appeared to be way over his head. Maybe only 100 people on earth would even consider that shot from there.

I got news for you, folks. In high stakes gambling, especially one pocket, coaching is considered a point of negotiation and only allowed if both players specifically agree beforehand.

It's still hard to imagine Lou's camp not seeing this if it occurred. Seems like Barton would be on here trying to do some damage control if he admitted to this. I guess time will tell.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top