Wagering, Backing, and Contact Info Please

ShootingArts

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Silver Member
I have been reading a funny thread, shows how much some of the "experts" in it know about wagering on pool and backing someone gambling. It has already turned ugly so I'll start fresh.


Now lets take a real look at pool with a backer: Everything is true about this story except I am tossing in a backer. Riding home from work one evening a partner wants to stop for a cold beer. I'm almost broke but I've got enough for a beer so what the hell, let's stop.


There is a ratty old pool table in the place, a challenge table in action at five dollars a game. The guys playing are typical bar room players of the time. "Bobby, ol' buddy, ol' pal of mine, howzabout loaning me a five? I have the two quarters and I'll cut you in for half the winnings." The beer has already went to Bobby's head on a hot day so he fronts me five dollars.


My quarters get to the top of the queue and I play and win the first two games. Now Bobby and I are both free rolling!(sorry JoeyA:wink:) Ten hours later I leave the table $800 richer, no damn it, $400 richer, Bobby is getting four hundred dollars back for the five dollars he risked backing me. I'll let some of you math fellows tell me the percentage of his original investment he got back.


The only difference from the truth is that Bobby was my partner instead of my backer and the exact amount won is a bit rough but pretty close to accurate. Close enough that I'll ask y'all to explain to me just how the backer would have gotten screwed going in fifty-fifty on many real world deals like this one where you make multiple bets. When the chances of winning are right you can not only keep firing the original stake over and over but the winnings also. When the game is wrong I have never met a man that made his living gambling that wouldn't quit in a heartbeat. "Nit" is a word to use against suckers.


While few sessions are as sweet as the one above most winning sessions are similar. The backer puts up the seed money but then that money is rolled over multiple times per session. If a fairly common three sets at $500 are played and won then the backer put up $500 to get back his $500 plus another $750 at a 50/50 split, not too shabby! To make it sweeter, often the loser wants to raise the bet after a loss or two so both the backer and the player are soon "free rolling" larger bets on money they took from the other player this same session! You can come in the door with five hundred and find yourself betting five times that with your five hundred and more safely tucked away in your boot.


Wagering at pool done right is some of the easiest pickings to be had. As for math, it is a wonderful thing but it doesn't mean crap if it isn't applied properly.


(the other reason for this thread, I have cleared my PM's. Friends please send me new e-mail contact info. Lost a computer and my domain so your contact information for me is bad and I don't have other people's anymore. I'm not returning to AZB for more than while this one thread is running, moved on to other things but I do want to keep in touch with friends.)


Hu
 
But the scenario you laid out is very different than one in which the backer paid tournament expenses.

And couldn't the argument be made that bobby only gets his $5 back?:eek:

Hope you are close to home, along with $795 richer :rotflmao1::thud::nono:
 
I see now that you did tell bobby he was in...there might be another kind of cutting if bobby gets moved on for that $400 :outtahere:
 
I don't understand the logic of asking for a $5 loan and then offering 50% of the proceeds. Doesn't seem like the smartest move to me. I mean if you lose you still owe the $5 to the person lendign it to you.

This story doesn't seem to by the typical backer/player relationship being discussed elsewhere. I haven't read the other thread yet but this one is just a story of firing a toothpick at the lumberyard and coming out on top with the exception of giving up half your winnings for no good reason.

I feel bad for the suckers who only could've won five dollars.
 
ShootingArts said:
I have been reading a funny thread, shows how much some of the "experts" in it know about wagering on pool and backing someone gambling. It has already turned ugly so I'll start fresh.


Now lets take a real look at pool with a backer: Everything is true about this story except I am tossing in a backer. Riding home from work one evening a partner wants to stop for a cold beer. I'm almost broke but I've got enough for a beer so what the hell, let's stop.


There is a ratty old pool table in the place, a challenge table in action at five dollars a game. The guys playing are typical bar room players of the time. "Bobby, ol' buddy, ol' pal of mine, howzabout loaning me a five? I have the two quarters and I'll cut you in for half the winnings." The beer has already went to Bobby's head on a hot day so he fronts me five dollars.


My quarters get to the top of the queue and I play and win the first two games. Now Bobby and I are both free rolling!(sorry JoeyA:wink:) Ten hours later I leave the table $800 richer, no damn it, $400 richer, Bobby is getting four hundred dollars back for the five dollars he risked backing me. I'll let some of you math fellows tell me the percentage of his original investment he got back.


The only difference from the truth is that Bobby was my partner instead of my backer and the exact amount won is a bit rough but pretty close to accurate. Close enough that I'll ask y'all to explain to me just how the backer would have gotten screwed going in fifty-fifty on many real world deals like this one where you make multiple bets. When the chances of winning are right you can not only keep firing the original stake over and over but the winnings also. When the game is wrong I have never met a man that made his living gambling that wouldn't quit in a heartbeat. "Nit" is a word to use against suckers.


While few sessions are as sweet as the one above most winning sessions are similar. The backer puts up the seed money but then that money is rolled over multiple times per session. If a fairly common three sets at $500 are played and won then the backer put up $500 to get back his $500 plus another $750 at a 50/50 split, not too shabby! To make it sweeter, often the loser wants to raise the bet after a loss or two so both the backer and the player are soon "free rolling" larger bets on money they took from the other player this same session! You can come in the door with five hundred and find yourself betting five times that with your five hundred and more safely tucked away in your boot.


Wagering at pool done right is some of the easiest pickings to be had. As for math, it is a wonderful thing but it doesn't mean crap if it isn't applied properly.


(the other reason for this thread, I have cleared my PM's. Friends please send me new e-mail contact info. Lost a computer and my domain so your contact information for me is bad and I don't have other people's anymore. I'm not returning to AZB for more than while this one thread is running, moved on to other things but I do want to keep in touch with friends.)


Hu
Click to expand...


Nice story, Hu.

Lou Figueroa
 
JB Cases said:
I don't understand the logic of asking for a $5 loan and then offering 50% of the proceeds. Doesn't seem like the smartest move to me. I mean if you lose you still owe the $5 to the person lendign it to you.

This story doesn't seem to by the typical backer/player relationship being discussed elsewhere. I haven't read the other thread yet but this one is just a story of firing a toothpick at the lumberyard and coming out on top with the exception of giving up half your winnings for no good reason.

I feel bad for the suckers who only could've won five dollars.
Click to expand...


I just feel bad for the sucker.

Lou Figueroa
everyone is different
 
I am happy to back a great playing broke a $$ pool player who is matched up to win. Done it many times.

Funny how many great players don't have even a couple hundred to bet on themselves. Honestly can't even walk into a pool hall without a grand on me. You never know when you will need it.
 
lfigueroa said:
I just feel bad for the sucker.

Lou Figueroa
everyone is different
Click to expand...

Why? I don't feel bad for anyone who loses when they gamble. They got in wanting to take the other guy's money.

I just think it's not "gambling" when you are firing five dollars at a room. If you win it's a great story and if you lose then it's forgotten. The other guys never knew that the most they could have won is five bucks.

I think all of us have stories like this where we ran up a small stake and won a lot. I know I do. I also know it's not super brave to fire a tiny bet at a much larger fish. I have also been on the other end of it losing a lot when I only could have won a little, it happens.

It's all part of the game. The reason I felt sorry for the losers in this story was because of being in the position before to be stuck against someone who COULDN'T lose what I was losing. Not even wouldn't but could not. So essentially I was stuck from the beginning.

Much different than our match where we froze up the money and someone would win 10k. That's gambling with both players knowing in advance what they can win.
 
ShootingArts said:
I have been reading a funny thread, shows how much some of the "experts" in it know about wagering on pool and backing someone gambling. It has already turned ugly so I'll start fresh.


Now lets take a real look at pool with a backer: Everything is true about this story except I am tossing in a backer. Riding home from work one evening a partner wants to stop for a cold beer. I'm almost broke but I've got enough for a beer so what the hell, let's stop.


There is a ratty old pool table in the place, a challenge table in action at five dollars a game. The guys playing are typical bar room players of the time. "Bobby, ol' buddy, ol' pal of mine, howzabout loaning me a five? I have the two quarters and I'll cut you in for half the winnings." The beer has already went to Bobby's head on a hot day so he fronts me five dollars.


My quarters get to the top of the queue and I play and win the first two games. Now Bobby and I are both free rolling!(sorry JoeyA:wink:) Ten hours later I leave the table $800 richer, no damn it, $400 richer, Bobby is getting four hundred dollars back for the five dollars he risked backing me. I'll let some of you math fellows tell me the percentage of his original investment he got back.


The only difference from the truth is that Bobby was my partner instead of my backer and the exact amount won is a bit rough but pretty close to accurate. Close enough that I'll ask y'all to explain to me just how the backer would have gotten screwed going in fifty-fifty on many real world deals like this one where you make multiple bets. When the chances of winning are right you can not only keep firing the original stake over and over but the winnings also. When the game is wrong I have never met a man that made his living gambling that wouldn't quit in a heartbeat. "Nit" is a word to use against suckers.


While few sessions are as sweet as the one above most winning sessions are similar. The backer puts up the seed money but then that money is rolled over multiple times per session. If a fairly common three sets at $500 are played and won then the backer put up $500 to get back his $500 plus another $750 at a 50/50 split, not too shabby! To make it sweeter, often the loser wants to raise the bet after a loss or two so both the backer and the player are soon "free rolling" larger bets on money they took from the other player this same session! You can come in the door with five hundred and find yourself betting five times that with your five hundred and more safely tucked away in your boot.


Wagering at pool done right is some of the easiest pickings to be had. As for math, it is a wonderful thing but it doesn't mean crap if it isn't applied properly.


(the other reason for this thread, I have cleared my PM's. Friends please send me new e-mail contact info. Lost a computer and my domain so your contact information for me is bad and I don't have other people's anymore. I'm not returning to AZB for more than while this one thread is running, moved on to other things but I do want to keep in touch with friends.)


Hu
Click to expand...

Hu,

Haven't seen you post much in a while. Welcome back. You back into pool again or what?

One time I went to a bar with my buddy, I was about 23, standing bet a drink or $3, nobody could play. I held the table from 7 pm to midnight. My buddy went to the bathroom and someone threatened us if we ever came back again.
 
Last edited:
I feel the term"backer" is a road partner that pays all expenses, and splits the winnings with the "player" IF and WHEN there is a profit after ALL expenses. I also think of a "backer" as someone who might put a player in an event for a cut of the winnings, BUT is not owed anything if the player can not cash.

"Partner" is the guy at the bar who gave you $5 to get going. Exactly what he is owed after you win is between you two. Does he get 1/2? maybe because you could not have gotten going without his loan.

IMO I would have maybe cut him in for maybe a cecil, but not 1/2......you did MUCH more of the work running racks to give away 50%. Of course my view is from a players POV. I have put many players in events like the US Open and the Derby, but I never really made much :)

I would rather bet on myself.

G.
 
gambling and tournaments are two different things

I have helped somebody get in a tournament a time or two, a different thing than backing gambling. If I put up the stake gambling and the deal is 50/50 I don't care if the player runs a dollar up to five thousand, half was my deal and half is what he owes me!

The story was about a very strange night. I was off of my home stomping grounds, Bobby wasn't. It was a quiet weeknight at a country honky-tonk that drew cowboys and cowgirls from a hundred miles around on weekends. On this night there were only about twenty people in the place.

The first impulse when a long haired bearded out of town kid started taking all of their money was to kick his ass I'm sure. I was fair sized though and Bobby while he wasn't big would fight at the drop of a hat, . . . and he was wearing a hat! Bobby was known to be a fair hand whittling too.

With never more than thirty people in the place the eight foot table had one quarter wide challenges lined up all the way up one side and three-fourths of the other not counting the pocket irons at one point. Guys were putting down five or ten dollars worth of fifty cent challenges at a time. Only one or two thought they might beat me but every man in the bar wanted to be the one at the table when I lost playing bar rules eight ball. Bucket pockets but I never made an eight ball accidentally or scratched on the eight and it was pure slaughter.

Seemed like I played three or four hours but we had walked in before dark and I started playing about an hour later; it was daylight when we left. We took the only two ladies that had been in the place all night with us and we led a parade to my truck! We pretty much cleaned out the whole place and the party only broke up when the last of the other players started dropping out to go to work the next morning, straight from the bar.

The two points I was trying to get across were that one, 50/50 is 50/50 for the whole ride. Sometimes it is good for the player, sometimes it is good for the backer. The other thing was that some math I was seeing was badly off because they were calculating that the backer put up the bet over and over out of pocket. In reality the seed money and winnings just keep rolling over.

I kept over a dozen players challenging that table most of the night sliding down to about six in the final hours before it finally dwindled down to zero. Out of all of those players there were maybe three with an outside chance of beating me, one of those with a fair chance if I gave him a shot to get started.

With so many challenges on the table I was done if I lost a game so I tightened up when I played the few players with a little class. This was forty years ago and there was a wide gap between those that could play pool and those that couldn't. Now the players are much more layered than they were then and there are many more decent players. Never tried to put a number on it but back then probably 95% of players would be rated "C" or worse today. I was a legitimate shortstop capable of taking a good run at anyone that tangled with me on my home stomping grounds where I knew the tables and lighting everywhere I played. That meant I spent most of my time clubbing baby seals. That was the reality of small time gambling at pool forty years ago.

Hu
 
this was that kind of a place too

TATE said:
Hu,

Haven't seen you post much in a while. Welcome back. You back into pool again or what?

One time I went to a bar with my buddy, I was about 23, standing bet a drink or $3, nobody could play. I held the table from 7 pm to midnight. My buddy went to the bathroom and someone threatened us if we ever came back again.
Click to expand...


This was that kind of a place too. I think the weird dynamic of them knowing Bobby and him being with me shut down the ugly side of things and the only place they could get me was on the pool table so they all waded in to do that. They were playing me like you see people playing the long odds games at a carnival thinking sooner or later you have to win. I have seen cowboys "pay" several hundred dollars for a stuffed bear!

I was actually the chump that night. I had close to a dozen action spots I worked in a loop back then, this could have been another. It was only an hour or so from home but I usually went other directions. I was out of work and with eight or ten challenges on the table when I first came in I got greedy. I made a score that night but I could have milked the place for years. As it was the next time I came in I played two games and everybody pulled their challenges off the table. Third trip they pulled the quarters off the table when I came in the door. I killed the golden goose that first trip. I could have eased a decent payday out of the place over and over had I not gotten greedy.

Hu
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top