TOI videos of players

[westlife]

hello azbilliards members anyone ther use TOI touch of inside by sir cj wiley do you some videos and upload it let we see if it is powerful tool

 

[CJ Wiley]

If you want to experience the aiming part of TOI try this

hello azbilliards members anyone ther use TOI touch of inside by sir cj wiley do you some videos and upload it let we see if it is powerful tool

If you want to experience the aiming part of TOI try this:

Set up a slightly off angled shot (straight in to a spot a half diamond to the left of the corner pocket). This means you need to cut it slightly to the right, so look at the center of your tip, then get down as if it's straight in, aim at center (for your reference point and to "dial in your eyes"), then more your whole stick parallel to the shot line slightly to the right.

Hit it at the center, just like it's straight in and see what happens. It will cut slightly and go in, if it over cuts, set it up again and use LESS TOI. If it doesn't cut at all you're not using any TOI, cue it slightly more inside, to the right. After you make this and really FEEL the connection to the shot, more the angle where it's straight in to the first diamond repeat this drill.

This is how to calibrate the angles of TOI. There's no short cut to learning how much TOI to use to create the angles, I"ll just tell you it's LESS than you probably think it is.

After you do this you will start to "Real Eyes" what I've been saying about unintentionally deflecting shots OUT of the pocket in the past. If you just cue it a HAIR outside of center it will deflect a half diamond on a 4'-5' shot. Imagine how many balls you've missed by unintentionally doing this and having NO IDEA why.

This is why I strongly recommend NOT using center ball because{a slight stoking error} will happen and you won't be able to tell which side of center you "might" have hit. Maybe you didn't, maybe you did, who knows? How can you make the correct adjustment if you can't identify what he root issue of the miss is? You simply won't be able to, however, players like myself can and will beat you because of this knowledge.

I know one thing, you will not know for sure unless you start favoring one side of the cue ball and TOI is the best side because that's where your contact point is. Think about this, and it will make more and more sense. 'The Game is the Teacher'

 

[westlife]

thanks for the reply i will try this sir Wiley hope i can master the TOI system

 

[DTL]

.........................

 

[CJ Wiley]

there's no better way to create pocket zones

Seems like back in the Fall of 2012 when that huge thread started about the "wrist" stuff, your TOI started out as just aiming to a slight undercut with just a "touch" of inside and deflecting the CB to the shot line.........one shot that can be depended on over and over when the pressure is on.

You may be confusing the '3 Part Pocket System' with the 'Touch of Inside' (which is not an aiming system). Unless you have experience using the TOI it would be difficult to understand, it really does require a change in ideas and attitude.

When a players is using TOI they do align to the inside of the pocket and throw the ball into the center by cueing slightly to the inside (this deflects the ball slightly so it over cuts into the center, or sometimes outside of the pocket).

Targeting the cue ball to the right to cut to the right and targeting to the left to cut to the left is powerful.......some players simply think of the TOI position as their "new center" - however you choose to perceive TOI, the fact is it's a POWERFUL playing system - there's no better way to create pocket zones (that drastically increase the approach angle). 'The TOI Game is the Teacher'

 

[robsnotes4u]

lucky for me

Seems like back in the Fall of 2012 when that huge thread started about the "wrist" stuff, your TOI started out as just aiming to a slight undercut with just a "touch" of inside and deflecting the CB to the shot line.........one shot that can be depended on over and over when the pressure is on. Over time it seemed to morph into what you're describing above and included terms like CTE and CTC depending on the thinness or thickness of the shot.............maybe adding these terms was after your meeting with SS at the Southern Classic?? Also it appears that there is a "pivot" back to the center after the parallel shift to TOI?

Seems to me this system depends heavily on "feel".

If one were aim the CB straight down the shot line with1 tip of left english using BHE (slight angled cue) with a properly centered (on the shot line) pivot-point bridge length for their playing cue, that player will make the shot if he/she hits the intended spot on the CB AND with slight miss hits.......center or even 1 tip on the other side of center. See this nice YouTube video by Mike Page.........esp at the end starting at about 8:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXJ7bDafTms

Lucky for me i live in Fargo, good friends with Mike, and get to play with him.

 

[Ralph Kramden]

You may be confusing the '3 Part Pocket System' with the 'Touch of Inside' (which is not an aiming system). Unless you have experience using the TOI it would be difficult to understand, it really does require a change in ideas and attitude.

When a players is using TOI they do align to the inside of the pocket and throw the ball into the center by cueing slightly to the inside (this deflects the ball slightly so it over cuts into the center, or sometimes outside of the pocket).

Targeting the cue ball to the right to cut to the right and targeting to the left to cut to the left is powerful.......some players simply think of the TOI position as their "new center" - however you choose to perceive TOI, the fact is it's a POWERFUL playing system - there's no better way to create pocket zones (that drastically increase the approach angle). 'The TOI Game is the Teacher'

CJ... Thanks again for the TOI insight, even if just for understanding the reason someone can miss with center CB hits.
I think most folks that don't get the idea of TOI, just don't spend enough time at the table, at least not working with TOI.
.

 

[West Point 1987]

CJ... Thanks again for the TOI insight, even if just for understanding the reason someone can miss with center CB hits.
I think most folks that don't get the idea of TOI, just don't spend enough time at the table, at least not working with TOI.
.

I would have been first in line to criticize this had I not tried it. I'd always been a guy who preferred outside spin to help the shot in, varying the speed and spin to control the CB. I was in the middle of "rediscovering" my stroke mechanics after a very long lay off when this TOI thing came along. I gave it a good 3 hours and proved the concept to myself, and never looked back. 3 months of work and I don't even know I'm doing it anymore. I play a full level (maybe two on a good day) above my previous top speed. I've gotten a lot of comments during competition and especially during warm ups about my ability to cut balls consistently up the rail and my ability to "kill" the CB on shots that shouldn't allow a CB to die off the rail. I recently incorporated it into my banking, and it's the nuts. I can't/won't explain it...I just know it works and I can count on it every time. The CTE/CTC lines for aligning the shot was a recent revelation; it made things MUCH easier. We can discuss/debate this to death, but unless you've really tried it (and I mean really tried it for 3 solid hours), you won't really see how strong this is. You might understand the basic premise if you've been playing long enough, but the results of acutally doing this will surprise even the more advanced players and convince them to incorporate it.

It's VERY easy to overdo the TOI...a little bit goes a very long way, and might give you the wrong impressions. I only use about 1/8 of a tip of inside to get the correct effect on most shots. Shafts and tips vary, so you have to find your sweet spot. If you're getting any significant running spin after contact, you're overdoing it. When it's done correctly, your opponent shouldn't be able to figure out how you're doing it...unless they use the same technique.

 

[Neil]

I would have been first in line to criticize this had I not tried it. I'd always been a guy who preferred outside spin to help the shot in, varying the speed and spin to control the CB. I was in the middle of "rediscovering" my stroke mechanics after a very long lay off when this TOI thing came along. I gave it a good 3 hours and proved the concept to myself, and never looked back. 3 months of work and I don't even know I'm doing it anymore. I play a full level (maybe two on a good day) above my previous top speed. I've gotten a lot of comments during competition and especially during warm ups about my ability to cut balls consistently up the rail and my ability to "kill" the CB on shots that shouldn't allow a CB to die off the rail. I recently incorporated it into my banking, and it's the nuts. I can't/won't explain it...I just know it works and I can count on it every time. The CTE/CTC lines for aligning the shot was a recent revelation; it made things MUCH easier. We can discuss/debate this to death, but unless you've really tried it (and I mean really tried it for 3 solid hours), you won't really see how strong this is. You might understand the basic premise if you've been playing long enough, but the results of acutally doing this will surprise even the more advanced players and convince them to incorporate it.

It's VERY easy to overdo the TOI...a little bit goes a very long way, and might give you the wrong impressions. I only use about 1/8 of a tip of inside to get the correct effect on most shots. Shafts and tips vary, so you have to find your sweet spot. If you're getting any significant running spin after contact, you're overdoing it. When it's done correctly, your opponent shouldn't be able to figure out how you're doing it...unless they use the same technique.

A tip of english is 3mm. Doesn't matter the size of the shaft. A pro tries to get to within 1mm of accuracy. Which would be 8/24ths of a tip. You say you repeatedly hit within 1/8 of a tip. Not saying you don't, but you must be doing something no one else can do, and have eyes better than a hawks eyes to even see that small an area.

Now, if you are referring to 13mm as a tip, then you are at 1.625mm accuracy from dead on center. Very close to pro range accuracy. The problem arises with the fact that how much TOI you need varies with every distance. This is because the amount of squirt will be the same for each exact hit on the cb. But, the amount of squirt is an angle of squirt, not a set distance from the shot line. With the angle staying the same, how much squirt you need varies with each distance.

In other words, you have to change the amount of deflection for each shot distance. Which means that you have to change the amount of offset from center on each shot distance. Good luck on actually being able to do that.

 

[West Point 1987]

You're probably right, perhaps the swerve counteracts that dynamic? I can't be sure, but it works for me. Plus I can indeed accurately determine the 1/8 tip offset.

 

[Mirza]

You're probably right, perhaps the swerve counteracts that dynamic? I can't be sure, but it works for me. Plus I can indeed accurately determine the 1/8 tip offset.

Do you have any video of you playing this way?

 

[West Point 1987]

Do you have any video of you playing this way?

I'll work on that...I've tried unsuccessfully to do it, both with a video feature on a digital camera and with an iPhone, neither worked well. It's too busy where i shoot, and too tough to set it up at a good angle. I'll try and find a time and place to put something together. I've got a video of me getting beaten senseless in an 8 ball BB match against Shawn Wilkie, not sure I'm allowed to post my tour's videos without permission. If I can, I might post that, it shows TOI (or rather, how hard it is to tell) pretty well.

 

[CJ Wiley]

People say to me "I don't understand TOI," and I tell them "you don't have to,"

CJ... Thanks again for the TOI insight, even if just for understanding the reason someone can miss with center CB hits.
I think most folks that don't get the idea of TOI, just don't spend enough time at the table, at least not working with TOI.
.

You're certainly welcome.

The challenge is to understand how to learn how something's done subconsciously.

The issue is it can't be figured out (consciously), it must be experienced to make sense. I have played using TOI for 20 hours on tough, regulation equipment while only missing 4 balls.

....is this consciously possible?

Do I believe I could have "figured out how to do this and can do it every time?"

The answer is "no," the only way the champion players can reach such high levels of play is from learning to "let go" and allow the game to play through them........and the only way I can teach this is through the study of "The Touch of Inside" - no other technique or system teaches an entirely new way to play the game in a way that you learn subconsciously the creativity, feel and touch necessary to play like a pro.

Using the TOI for a few hours basically "re boots" you mind so that it can except the new ideas, attitude, and emotions required to play better.....much, much, better.

People say to me "I don't understand TOI," and I tell them "you don't have to," you don't have to understand TOI because quite honestly you can't until you experience it.....and this takes a commitment to set aside your old ideas, attitudes, and emotional attachments.......for just a couple of hours - you'll be very happy that you did my friends.....new players are discovering this fact every day.

Play Well, The Game is Our Teacher

 

[Mikjary]

I like to vary my cue ball speed slightly whenever possible, instead of moving my tip contact point. It's more consistent and easier to gauge at different shot distances. Shooting the same way on a majority of my pots puts me on auto-pilot.

Best,
Mike

 

[LAMas]

I like to vary my cue ball speed slightly whenever possible, instead of moving my tip contact point. It's more consistent and easier to gauge at different shot distances. Shooting the same way on a majority of my pots puts me on auto-pilot.

Best,
Mike

Mike,

Good information.:smile:

It is a useful tool to use speed to alter the angle of the shot if you subscribe to aiming at a finite spot on or off of the OB. I often use CTE to initially aim at and alter the less than 30 degrees due to CIT, caused by gearing when using stun (center CB), with English. Shooting as slow as possible will get you to the geometrically correct cut angle for those that know what those are. It is important to know what angle, less than the geometric expected 30 degrees, one achieves using stun. for if the cut angle at hand is a bit (3-4 degrees) less than 30 degrees then aim CTE with the center of the CB.

One can aim CTE with extreme draw and achieve up to a 45 degree cut angle, or with forced follow. Most know about using outside English to eliminate gearing.

One can Alter any cut angle normally aimed at with center ball by using speed or English. This will give one the ability to cut a bit thin or thick of that angle.

Be well.

 

[Mikjary]

Mike,

Good information.:smile:

It is a useful tool to use speed to alter the angle of the shot if you subscribe to aiming at a finite spot on or off of the OB. I often use CTE to initially aim at and alter the less than 30 degrees due to CIT, caused by gearing when using stun (center CB), with English. Shooting as slow as possible will get you to the geometrically correct cut angle for those that know what those are. It is important to know what angle, less than the geometric expected 30 degrees, one achieves using stun. for if the cut angle at hand is a bit (3-4 degrees) less than 30 degrees then aim CTE with the center of the CB.

One can aim CTE with extreme draw and achieve up to a 45 degree cut angle, or with forced follow. Most know about using outside English to eliminate gearing.

One can Alter any cut angle normally aimed at with center ball by using speed or English. This will give one the ability to cut a bit thin or thick of that angle.

Be well.

I use mostly stun shots when I can. I'll even stun and roll through the object ball contact point unless I have to get some serious follow.

Watching the Pinoys taught me how to hit close to center, but use my stroke to get follow without aiming high on the cue ball. I noticed Shane's game changed in this direction after he spent some time in that part of the globe.

I like to think of using my speed whenever possible to slightly change angles on the object ball cut. Using mostly stun shots gives me more predictability when cutting balls and where the cue ball is headed. I can factor in CIT and deflection/swerve without too much thought...I think.

Best,
Mike

 

[robsnotes4u]

,

Shane comes and plays at our pool hall as a good friend is the GM and pro. They were playing on day for a few hours and the House Pro said Shane changed his speed on shots less than a handful of times. Shane tries to stay on the horizontal axis keeping the tangent in effect more easily.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[LAMas]

I use mostly stun shots when I can. I'll even stun and roll through the object ball contact point unless I have to get some serious follow.

Watching the Pinoys taught me how to hit close to center, but use my stroke to get follow without aiming high on the cue ball. I noticed Shane's game changed in this direction after he spent some time in that part of the globe.

I like to think of using my speed whenever possible to slightly change angles on the object ball cut. Using mostly stun shots gives me more predictability when cutting balls and where the cue ball is headed. I can factor in CIT and deflection/swerve without too much thought...I think.

Best,
Mike

Mike,
Watching Max's vid, he applies English very close to a bit of inside or outside but gets enhanced desired angle when the CB contact the rail. I tried to alter my stroke to emulate the vid. I found that it is a matter of "touch"....use the weight of the cue and not your grip and forearm...throw the cue at the CB with a light grasp...slip stroke?.

Be well.

 

[Mikjary]

Shane comes and plays at our pool hall as a good friend is the GM and pro. They were playing on day for a few hours and the House Pro said Shane changed his speed on shots less than a handful of times. Shane tries to stay on the horizontal axis keeping the tangent in effect more easily.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

Zackley! I try to hit most balls at the same speed and use my stroke to either kill or send the cue ball traveling. I vary the speed slightly, but I don't think anyone would really pick up on it except me. It gives me a small window to change my object ball contact point and create angles that wouldn't be there by babying the balls.

Think of what you could learn by playing a guy like Shane! You'd have to pick up something...even through osmosis. :smile:

Best,
Mike

 

[Mikjary]

Mike,
Watching Max's vid, he applies English very close to a bit of inside or outside but gets enhanced desired angle when the CB contact the rail. I tried to alter my stroke to emulate the vid. I found that it is a matter of "touch"....use the weight of the cue and not your grip and forearm...throw the cue at the CB with a light grasp...slip stroke?.

Be well.

Big E,

If you're talking about Max's video, Powerful Pool, I agree. I think his stroke has actually improved in the last year or two. I look for good things from him in the future. :smile:

I use a "stroke slip" :smile: once in a while. I don't know when it's gonna happen, so it may not really be me shooting the shot. "It could be aliens." I don't plan on it, it just happens.

CJ calls the stroke, "pinning" the cue ball. I've always heard it called, "digging into" the cue ball. I think it's a quick movement to maximize the speed and angle of attack at just the right instant (contact) to create the spin you need. I can get enough stroke by hitting through whitey, but once in a while you just have to scare your opponent. :smile:

I like to watch guys like Larry Nevel and Corey move the cue ball around the table. I try to emulate their stroke and find out how hard it is to do what they can do. Maybe next week...

Best,
Mike