Questionable/shady dealings here on az opinions wanted

cueaddicts said:
This is all very enlightening about the cue....but not sure how any of it has to do with the subject of this "bad deal" that the OP wrote about. It's really just a distraction. Let's call this all water under the bridge when Ron gets his cue back, shall we. You guys are both too good for this.
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You're right. The details of the cue have nothing to do with the "bad deal".

However, the OP played 100% victim here and got the cavalry to start roasting Chicken. I felt I had to say something because if you're going to attempt to wreck someone's reputation, you should be sure that you've done everything to that point 100% on the level.

I have nothing against anyone here and maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I'd had enough. I've informed multiple "owners" over the past year about that cue as I've seen it reposted for sale and....well, I guess no one cared to relay that info to the buyers.

So, this was my choice to say what I had to say. I may be out of line and completely derailing this thread. I'll say no more about it.
 
Tro said:
To put all the bullshit to bed about the travels of this cue:

I got the cue from Don Sherman with full disclosure.

I sold this cue 1 year and 4 months ago without a refinish, a slight roll in the butt, one original shaft, and one non original shaft. Full disclosure.

Thread here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=301509

The buyer had it refinished a year ago at Proficient billiards.

Thread here: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=314050

Somewhere along the line, the details that were disclosed about the cue were "forgotten".

Did Tim Scruggs refinished the cue and add a shaft AFTER Scott Sherbine did a refinish and rewrap? I have no idea.

All I know is I've watched this cue be passed around and actually contacted the various people that had it in their possession to give them the details of the cue. Whether or not anyone gave a **** to relay that information on to the next buyer was their choice.

I wasn't going to say anything as I watched this thread unfold, but as time went on and Chicken continued to get BBQ'd, I figured I'd at least point out the following:

Not everyone here is exempt from fault and people should take a good look in the mirror before they decide to drag someone's name through the mud.
-
Now, if someone wants to call me a liar, they can call me at 815-212-9764 and we can have a nice long talk about this cue. If it's someone..and there are a NUMBER of people on this thread that I "enlightened" about this cue as they had in their possession, wants to call me and *****..please do. What my response will be: If you were honest in the first place, you wouldn't be pissed at me right now."

Am I perfect? No.

Why am I writing this? To show everyone that we all have faults, we all slip at one point or another, and none of use deserve to sit on an ivory throne and cast stones on the heathens below.

Enjoy.
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I've worked with Scot probably more than anybody has. Most likely Scot put a new handle on it too. It wouldn't bother me at all, better that than a warp and his work is not detectable anyway, but he used to occasionally write something under the wrap. Scot's finish jobs are better than 98% of the cue maker's too and they last many, many years, no issue there. Scot is careful with his work.

Even a Phillipi 2nd shaft wouldn't bother me, as long as the cue had one good solid original shaft.

Guys, this isn't a Balabushka - it's a $1500 - $1700 cue.
 
bad deal

going off memory tro and nick both sent me a pm stating what they knew about the cue. like I said before they were talking about the cue from 2 years ago give or take.

chris and I made a deal where he told me specifically that the cue was refinished by Scruggs and everything was legit. this info came from Scruggs himself at the 2014 super billiards expo.

I listed the cue with the most up to date knowledge I had.

I am far from an expert and I wouldn't be able to tell a Scruggs taper from a dale perry taper.

I would never knowingly sell or trade a cue with so many questions/issues. had any deal taken place and the buyer found these things out im sure he would be mad and want his money back and that's exactly what I would give him without hesitation.
 
bad deal

tro I appreciate you posting and letting everyone know something about the cues history. knowledge is power.

this situation was brought to light because of kickin chicken refusing to accept delivery of a cue we had a deal on. until I die I will say that it was a shitty thing to do and I don't think anyone here would disagree with me. after expressing my concern that the cue could possibly be stuck in the postal system if he declined the package he still went ahead and called his local post office ahead of time to alert them. when I went to my local post office to check on the status of my return package and was told it could take up to 30 days I don't think there is one guy here on az who wouldn't be pissed off.

as I stated before if he had gotten a hold of me before I shipped the cue this entire ordeal would be a non issue with me. he did try. sometimes shit happens, you have a change of heart, you forget you promised the cue to a friend, etc im an easy going guy I would have said no problem and relisted the cue. at this time though I lost out on other deals. ironically im glad I did since this cue is an enigma.
 
POOLPLYR1111 said:
tro I appreciate you posting and letting everyone know something about the cues history. knowledge is power.

this situation was brought to light because of kickin chicken refusing to accept delivery of a cue we had a deal on. until I die I will say that it was a shitty thing to do and I don't think anyone here would disagree with me. after expressing my concern that the cue could possibly be stuck in the postal system if he declined the package he still went ahead and called his local post office ahead of time to alert them. when I went to my local post office to check on the status of my return package and was told it could take up to 30 days I don't think there is one guy here on az who wouldn't be pissed off.

as I stated before if he had gotten a hold of me before I shipped the cue this entire ordeal would be a non issue with me. he did try. sometimes shit happens, you have a change of heart, you forget you promised the cue to a friend, etc im an easy going guy I would have said no problem and relisted the cue. at this time though I lost out on other deals. ironically im glad I did since this cue is an enigma.
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ron;

You were notified that your cue had issues by several people and even if these were fixed, it is something that definitely has a downward effect on value and is a big enough deal that it should be disclosed every time. There is no question about that.

The reason for your not disclosing these things is probably to do with your not wanting to lose money.

If I have it right, your defense for not disclosing the repaired butt warp and non-matching shaft is that you offer a money back if not satisfied guarantee?

So you are leaving it up to your customer to figure it out for themselves that a cue was repaired rather than you being up front with them and telling them about it?

Do you think that's fair? Or honest?

and to what I highlighted above in blue; there really was no chance for that - you shipped this baby real fast, like a hot potato.

best,
brian kc
 
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bad deal

Brian the cue was shipped fast because may 5th was a Monday and my day off and I did not know when I would be able to get to the post office next.

I was advised by several people about a shaft not being right but that was from several years ago. I had no knowledge what so ever about the handle being replaced.

I was only advised that the cue had been refinished by TS recently and was confirmed in person at the 2014 sbe.

after I acquired the cue from Chris I posted the cue here on AZ. The same people that posted in this thread advised me of possible issues with the cue. All of this info was relayed back to Swiss Chris where he assured me that what I was hearing was not true and that he had the most up to date info on the cue. Once again I listed a cue with the most current knowledge I had. If I am wrong to do that then I apologize to everyone on AZ.

Brian if you think for a second I was trying to pass a questionable cue on to the next guy you are 100% wrong. I treat others how I would like to be treated. I am an honest person and I would not try to pull a fast one on somebody basically saying if they do their homework and find out the truth iI will give them their money back so lets roll the dice and hope and pray they never find out. This is not how I operate and I would be asking for more trouble on every deal if I conducted business this way.

Brian you can question my honesty and integrity until your blue in the face. Hundreds of People would come to my defense. I have accepted returns on cues just because the buyer did not like the hit. No condition issues just that and here is your money back. That is the kind of guy I am. You on the other hand "intentionally" made a decision that was going to cause me a problem. After I asked you not to you still went ahead and did it. Even after I still refunded your money just like you asked for it. Watch out AZ I am a shady character.

oh yeah does your friend like the jensen cue? After all this i will call bullshit on that now but that's just my opinion.
 
Ron;

although I thought I read you saying you've updated your for sale thread with the new information about your cue (handle repair, etc), I don't see that it was:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=360727

My local postmaster, Doug, told me this morning that the package was, indeed, mistakenly sent back to our local po on Sat and was immediately resent, again, presumably to NJ. We'll see.

Postmaster Doug confirmed that this package showing on tracking right now in Springfield, MA is a good thing as it is the correct hub for going back to NJ, where I certainly hope it will now be heading.

Yes, hoping its 3rd time in Springfield will be a charm. :angry:

best,
brian kc
 
bad deal

brian i havent updated my scruggs thread because as soon as i receive it back its going back to swiss chris. it will no longer be my cue so i guess ill delete that thread.
 
Kickin' Chicken said:
Ron;

although I thought I read you saying you've updated your for sale thread with the new information about your cue (handle repair, etc), I don't see that it was:

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=360727

My local postmaster, Doug, told me this morning that the package was, indeed, mistakenly sent back to our local po on Sat and was immediately resent, again, presumably to NJ. We'll see.

Postmaster Doug confirmed that this package showing on tracking right now in Springfield, MA is a good thing as it is the correct hub for going back to NJ, where I certainly hope it will now be heading.

Yes, hoping its 3rd time in Springfield will be a charm. :angry:

best,
brian kc
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Yup, this is the critical one. its now at the hub that has demonstrated the ability to F it up and sent it to your hub instead of Ron's local PO. All will be revealed today.
 
This is the reason I have a lambros sitting in a case I want to sell but have no interest in dealing with the bs lol
 
If a cue had issues and they were fixed by the original maker how can that not still be considered original??
 
thepavlos said:
If a cue had issues and they were fixed by the original maker how can that not still be considered original??
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If you wreck a Ferrari, have it repaired, even by Ferrari, at the end of it all, what do you have?

a devalued sports car that has been repaired with parts that did not come with that car, originally.

it's no longer all original.

best,
brian kc
 
thepavlos said:
If a cue had issues and they were fixed by the original maker how can that not still be considered original??
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Its all a matter of opinion, but if i have a handle replacement, like Ernie Gutierrez in 2014 replacing the handle in one of his 1960s cues, I'm disclosing it (if i know, which in the case of a Gina, I would).

Fred on a Tad ditto.

Barry on a Gus, ditto.

I think what is maybe coming out on this one, however, its the chance that the work wasn't done by Scruggs,
 
SwissChris said:
The moment you sent the cue and gave him the tracking number
The deal is done imo
If the buyer refused shipping imo it is his problem not yours
But don't forget this is just a f......ing shady
Well idk what to do here and how to help you. ....sorry to here that
Hope it works out for you Ron
Chris
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Agreed, the moment you shipped the cue the deal was done. If he had any problems with the agreement/sale even after accepting the terms (which I would also think confirms a deal if a deposit is given) then he can't alert you to any prior "promise" as your cue is in transit.
 
Update:


Postal Product:
Priority Mail 2-Day™


Features: Insured

May 19, 2014 , 4:19 pm
Processed through USPS Sort Facility
BETHPAGE, NY 11714

The package now appears to be heading toward, NJ.

best,
brian kc
 
In all honesty and fairness

The Butt alone is worth $1500. It is a beauty and plays better than most straight Cues if it is still bent.
I almost had to keep it. It is that pretty. And that sweet to hit with.
Nick :)
 
POOLPLYR1111 said:
Brian the cue was shipped fast because may 5th was a Monday and my day off and I did not know when I would be able to get to the post office next.

I was advised by several people about a shaft not being right but that was from several years ago. I had no knowledge what so ever about the handle being replaced.

I was only advised that the cue had been refinished by TS recently and was confirmed in person at the 2014 sbe.

after I acquired the cue from Chris I posted the cue here on AZ. The same people that posted in this thread advised me of possible issues with the cue. All of this info was relayed back to Swiss Chris where he assured me that what I was hearing was not true and that he had the most up to date info on the cue. Once again I listed a cue with the most current knowledge I had. If I am wrong to do that then I apologize to everyone on AZ.

Brian if you think for a second I was trying to pass a questionable cue on to the next guy you are 100% wrong. I treat others how I would like to be treated. I am an honest person and I would not try to pull a fast one on somebody basically saying if they do their homework and find out the truth iI will give them their money back so lets roll the dice and hope and pray they never find out. This is not how I operate and I would be asking for more trouble on every deal if I conducted business this way.

Brian you can question my honesty and integrity until your blue in the face. Hundreds of People would come to my defense. I have accepted returns on cues just because the buyer did not like the hit. No condition issues just that and here is your money back. That is the kind of guy I am. You on the other hand "intentionally" made a decision that was going to cause me a problem. After I asked you not to you still went ahead and did it. Even after I still refunded your money just like you asked for it. Watch out AZ I am a shady character.

oh yeah does your friend like the jensen cue? After all this i will call bullshit on that now but that's just my opinion.
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Ron;

I will have to double-check the forum rules but I'm like 96% sure that if you try to sell someone an undisclosed Frankenstein cue, you forfeit any rights to call bullshit on that person.

best,
brian kc
 
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