OB Plus Shafts...

Dip stick

Wow dude, your very dense.

FIRST STEP......... Have your customer send in the shaft for inspection.

If they inspect it and reject warranty then at least you have something to ***** about

Don't let this go in one ear and out the other.........................
I called OB cues I wanted to send the shaft to OB cues, because the customers name is not in their computer the warranty was denied on the spot the cuemaker who bought the shaft is the only one who can file a warranty claim according to OB policy if I understand correctly....................
Ob cues wouldn't warranty this cue because of the cue maker wouldn't file the claim.
there was no reason for me to send in a shaft that I was told over the phone Ob cues wouldn't warranty and you called me dense.

The cue maker did want to waste his time with this manner.
I have done my best to get this shaft warrantied but my hands are tied and the shaft has already been repaired.

Regardless of any ones policy the customer did order his cue with a OB shaft and it cracked with in a year of him buying it.
Cold hearted as I am I think this customer should get the shaft replaced for free.
And that's what I think would be the right thing that happens.
 
Mike, you told me your blood pressure was too low.
With this mess being dropped in your lap, I think it
will be back to normal or above right away.

Remember ... " No Good Deed Goes Unpunished ".
 
Royce and Shane both tend to like happy customers... And as such it appear that Royce was trying to offer up an olive branch in a situation where there is no clear evidence showing that your customer was the original owner because they were left out in the wind by the cuemaker who worked on the blank....

Apparently you prefer to remain on your soapbox instead of having the customer send the shaft to OB as Royce has requested...

At this point the only thing I think we all want to hear besides "the customer is sending the shaft in" is "thank you for going out of your way"

IF you want to bash anyone on this, post the name of the cuemaker who would not go to bat over the issue since their name "should" be in the system.... Makes me wonder if this was really a blank or was it a used shaft that had it's ring removed thereby making your customer likely several rungs down from the original owner......

Just food for thought about why a cuemaker wouldn't make the call if the shaft was on the up and up....

Chris
 
I'm not trying to be rude here or cause any issues but I'm kind of confused at the story here...

The cuemaker ordered an unfinished blank, right?

I don't see how one would think a blank should be covered by a warranty.

Unless you want a warranty on the BLANK before it was worked on, that I could understand..
 
cues and shafts

Mike, you told me your blood pressure was too low.
With this mess being dropped in your lap, I think it
will be back to normal or above right away.

Remember ... " No Good Deed Goes Unpunished ".

Hi Howard.

Gave my customer my best efforts to get this shaft replaced.
Cannot win them all.
 
This is great news. OB cues will be the 3rd company that produce LD shafts from solid mapleblanks. The two others being Mezz and McDermott.
This tells me that OB cues has grown to a size where they have the financial muscle to buy and dry big enough lots of raw maple wood as to meet demand without compromise on quality.
A queston to Royce or Shane:
If I want a OB shaft for my Mezz with united joint, do I order straight from OB cues or from Mezz?
 
Royce and Shane both tend to like happy customers... And as such it appear that Royce was trying to offer up an olive branch in a situation where there is no clear evidence showing that your customer was the original owner because they were left out in the wind by the cuemaker who worked on the blank....

Apparently you prefer to remain on your soapbox instead of having the customer send the shaft to OB as Royce has requested...

At this point the only thing I think we all want to hear besides "the customer is sending the shaft in" is "thank you for going out of your way"

IF you want to bash anyone on this, post the name of the cuemaker who would not go to bat over the issue since their name "should" be in the system.... Makes me wonder if this was really a blank or was it a used shaft that had it's ring removed thereby making your customer likely several rungs down from the original owner......

Just food for thought about why a cuemaker wouldn't make the call if the shaft was on the up and up....

Chris

I would like to here from the cuemaker myself. Something isn't being said. Big pieces missing.
 
Ok then here's a question?

I bought an OB shaft on eBay from a dealer so I doubt that I'm in OB's data base. Am I the original purchaser or the dealer? Same goes for the cue maker? I would not consider the cue maker the original purchaser just like the dealer is not the first. I would still send the shaft in for inspection.
 
Don't let this go in one ear and out the other.........................
I called OB cues I wanted to send the shaft to OB cues, because the customers name is not in their computer the warranty was denied on the spot the cuemaker who bought the shaft is the only one who can file a warranty claim according to OB policy if I understand correctly....................
Ob cues wouldn't warranty this cue because of the cue maker wouldn't file the claim.
there was no reason for me to send in a shaft that I was told over the phone Ob cues wouldn't warranty and you called me dense.

The cue maker did want to waste his time with this manner.
I have done my best to get this shaft warrantied but my hands are tied and the shaft has already been repaired.

Regardless of any ones policy the customer did order his cue with a OB shaft and it cracked with in a year of him buying it.
Cold hearted as I am I think this customer should get the shaft replaced for free.
And that's what I think would be the right thing that happens.

MMike

A few things.

Approximately when did you call us? Was it recent, or years ago? I'm just curious, and it won't have any bearing on whether or not the customer has warranty.

As has been stated, calling in does not and will not get you any kind of confirmation on whether the problem with a product is a matter for warranty. If you were looking for us to say "yes, it's covered so just send it in" you weren't going to get that. That does not meant that we have denied any coverage.

The vast majority of purchases of our products are through retailers and dealers. We don't get those records, so we don't have customer information on those purchases unless the customer registers the purchase on our website. We receive products all the time from people who are not in our system. They all get the same consideration. If they meet the criteria for warranty and the product has a warrantable defect, then we repair or replace it. Period. Notice than none of this has anything to do with a third party calling us about it.

Just because you called in and told us his name doesn't mean we're going to write it down or put it in our system. We might, depending on the situation, if it was the actual customer who called in. But we would never record someone's information when it's coming from a third party. I would consider doing that to be unethical.

If you called us and we told you it was not a matter for warranty, then there are only a few possibilities. During a phone call, the only things we will take a position on is whether or not the purchase is qualified for warranty. So, if you told us that he was not the original retail buyer, then we would tell you that he does not have warranty. If you tell us that the problem was caused by damage, like someone sitting on it or something like that, then we would say that it would not be covered.

We get lots of phone calls were people ask about warranty. We ALWAYS direct them to our website for information on how to send it to us. Often, they want us to tell them it whether it will be covered or not, and we simply don't do that. We tell them that we must inspect it before we can say. Some do send in the product for inspection, and some don't. My assumption is that those who don't, do so because they realize that it wouldn't be covered. Maybe they aren't the first retail purchaser. Or maybe they know it was damaged and not a defect. In any case, we don't record anything until the product arrives. We get the information directly from the enclosed product return form, log it in to our system, and inspect the product for the defect.



Now, I'll offer it again. The customer still has the same opportunity for warranty as before. They can go to our website, complete the product return form, and send it in with the cue shaft. We will verify that they are eligible for warranty, and inspect the cue shaft. If it is defective, then it will be repaired or replaced. Since we originally sold a partial, then it would be replaced with a partial. If the customer wants to have the joint work done by his cue maker, we can send it directly to them. If he would like us to do the joint work, then we would be happy to quote it to him. Notice that none of this includes a third party.

So, if you would like to pass this information on to them, we would be happy to work with them. It's unfortunate, but having a third person involved has most likely made a very simple situation into a very complicated one.

I don't know what else I can add.

Thanks

Royce
 
Are all of the current offers for joints going to be available right off the bat?

I'm gonna be needing a 3x8/11 Classic or Classic Pro if I can't get the other with a black collar.

Just wondering if it'll be available right away or will I need a wait.

Are the secondary stores like Seyberts/OZone getting them next month or just available from you guys?


Also, while on the subject of collarless shafts, are the + shafts going to be a closer match in terms of color of the wood? I have a collarless sneaky and would LOVE to get a classic + collarless for it if the colors of wood aren't totally botched and not similar looking. The classic I have right now has a few pieces of wood pretty different in color.







Hey buddy, not bustin your balls but you always use "too" when you should use "to".

Example,

I'm going to get a new OB classic, too.

or

You're too good to be just a 7 in APA, Busboy :grin-square: .


ddadams

Pretty much all of the initial shipments will be our standard list of joints which does not include the 3/8-11. All of those shipments are going to our dealers for pre-orders, and are expected to ship soon. If you go to our website, and choose the special joint option, you will see that joint listed. You can order there directly if you like. We complete the orders in the order in which we receive them so it would be wise to get it in line before we get backed up.


Thanks!
 
I'm not trying to be rude here or cause any issues but I'm kind of confused at the story here...

The cuemaker ordered an unfinished blank, right?

I don't see how one would think a blank should be covered by a warranty.

Unless you want a warranty on the BLANK before it was worked on, that I could understand..

ddadams

Actually, the item in question is what we call a Partial. Partials are complete except for the joint end. They are complete with our finished out taper, ferrule and tip. The joint is left raw meaning that it is larger and longer than normal. This allows the cue maker to install his joint work, cut it to match his taper, and even choose 30" if they like.

And yes, Partials do come with a warranty. Obviously, it applies to the cue shaft, and not the joint work. But, if a shaft were to be defective, we would replace the partial.

Many cue makers, who install joints on our partials, will re-install the joint work, at no charge for their customer, in the event the shaft does need to be replaced. Many simply charge the customer for it again. Either way, this is something that should probably be discussed between the customer and the cue maker at the onset.
 
Up date this mess

I called Royce on the phone,


Everyone needs to understand that the shaft is cracked at the joint in 3 places, and that the shaft didn't have a collar or a sleeve on the joint area.
This OB shaft was made for a sneaky pete

My personal thoughts that a collarless or a sleeveless laminated shafts has a weakness in the joint area if the cue has had any sideward force or pressure it has a good chance of breaking or cracking in the same area as this shaft has broken.


Royce and me didn't agree on everything over the phone but I am happy I called him to bring this warranty issue to a close for me.

There is a disagreement over what was said to me when I called in the first time and what is being said to me now, but even if everyone agreed with me, it doesn't make any difference because I do not believe the shaft had a factory defect, I believe the shaft cracked because it was collarless or sleeveless and it wouldn't take much sideward pressures to crack the shaft .
And the fact that I am a 3rd party in all this seems to be a problem with OB warranty policy. My thinking is different, the shaft is cracked only after a year worth of using it and need to be fixed .. IMO the shaft broke prematurely because it had no collar on the joint and the owner had no idea how fragile a collarless jointed laminated shaft really is.
By no means is this just a problem on laminated shafts only, I have seen tons of solid maple shafts cracked at the joint too. I don't believe Laminated wood is stronger then solid maple wood when side ward pressure is applied.


I have allot of respect for Royce at OB cues for the way he defends his products,
I dislike the fact that my customers shaft has a crack in it after only being used for a year.
And still think a collarless joint is a giant weak spot that could break with a slight side pressure applied and it should be a concern to anyone thinking of ordering in a shaft that doesn't have a collar on the joint solid maple or laminated I know its fragile area.
 
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Who is at fault

What you say about weakness at the joint I can understand. I've owned laminated collarless shafts without any problems, but I treat my pool equipment more carefully than most do. I don't see that the issue here is with OB though. The whole idea of partials is that the customer can personalize the shaft, including installing their own collar. It sounds like the cue maker is responsible for the majority of the problems that have arisen.

Sent from my C1505 using Tapatalk

I have mixed feeling who is at fault, Part of me wants to say the buyer is because he had the shaft made without a collar and I really don't think he knew that was a big weak point.

Part of me thinks that the person who fitted to the butt to shaft should of warned him that there might be a problem with the joint end of the shaft cracking because it had no collar.
And would of warned the customer that if it did crack there might not be any warranty.

Last part is this is not a new problem and collarless shafts have been known to crack there for years and I have no idea why Laminated LD shaft makers have not engineered
a deep grove cut in the face of the shaft and haven't glued in a phenolic ring between the threaded hole and the outside of the shaft thus making a shaft that looks like a sneaky Pete but it really has a collar inside to give the joint extra strength.

Having any high end shaft crack after only a year is not acceptable if the customer took care of his cue with in reason.
 
I have mixed feeling who is at fault, Part of me wants to say the buyer is because he had the shaft made without a collar and I really don't think he knew that was a big weak point.

Part of me thinks that the person who fitted to the butt to shaft should of warned him that there might be a problem with the joint end of the shaft cracking because it had no collar.
And would of warned the customer that if it did crack there might not be any warranty.

Last part is this is not a new problem and collarless shafts have been known to crack there for years and I have no idea why Laminated LD shaft makers have not engineered
a deep grove cut in the face of the shaft and haven't glued in a phenolic ring between the threaded hole and the outside of the shaft thus making a shaft that looks like a sneaky Pete but it really has a collar inside to give the joint extra strength.

Having any high end shaft crack after only a year is not acceptable if the customer took care of his cue with in reason.

If the shaft really cracked under normal wear and tear, I have a hunch that OB would warranty it for you. I have found them to be exceptionally fair and reasonable with warranty claims over the years. You can write a book on the merits of shaft engineering but unless they see the shaft it's hard for them to confirm much of anything, isn't it? :grin-square:
 
OB shafts

If the shaft really cracked under normal wear and tear, I have a hunch that OB would warranty it for you. I have found them to be exceptionally fair and reasonable with warranty claims over the years. You can write a book on the merits of shaft engineering but unless they see the shaft it's hard for them to confirm much of anything, isn't it? :grin-square:

I don't ever remembering saying anything about OB cues being unfair.
All I said is one year is not much of a shaft life. ;)
 
Mike. Do you feel its possible the joint or pin chosen required too much wood being removed, and that in concert with no collar was the actual problem?
 
Pin

Mike. Do you feel its possible the joint or pin chosen required too much wood being removed, and that in concert with no collar was the actual problem?

No I don't think pin size was a factor in the shaft cracking.
I think its a extremely fragile area of the cue for any kind of sideward force or pressure.
I am not a expert............................................
 
A shaft with no insert and no joint collar will crack at the joint if sideways pressure is placed on the cue (such as bending the shaft a little on the break, which is more than likely what the customer did in this case). Whether a year old, whether a day old, whether solid maple or laminated maple, any shaft is susceptible to cracking at the joint if no insert and no collar is used. Neither OB nor other shaft maker or company should ever have to warranty a partial that failed at the joint, because they did not install the joint! It is completely the fault of the buyer who ordered it that way and then mistreated his cue and did not realize what he was doing. Next time maybe he will be more careful. I cracked the shaft on a solid maple sneaky Pete before and I will never do it again. It was no one's fault but my own.
 
No I don't think pin size was a factor in the shaft cracking.
I think its a extremely fragile area of the cue for any kind of sideward force or pressure.
I am not a expert............................................

Fair enough. I would tend to think a 3/8 pin would leave less meat around the side then, say, a 5/16 pin. Just an observation.
 
5/16 pin

Fair enough. I would tend to think a 3/8 pin would leave less meat around the side then, say, a 5/16 pin. Just an observation.


If the 5/16 hole in the shaft does not have a insert then yes, if it does have a insert then no.
I don't know of any 5/16 shafts that don't have a insert, so I would have to disagree.
 
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