Straight In Shots

[Pidge]

So basically what naji is getting at is TOI is the bees knees, but not to apply a TOI but to use it to compensate for a wonky stroke. Interesting. CJ, I think naji has hit upon a whole new target audience and use of TOI...touch of inside to actually hit centre cue ball, or TOITAHCCB for short

As for Nic Barrow - he is one hell of an instructor. I've been lucky enough to have had lots of lessons with Nic when I was in my teens. People need to look up his YouTube channel and watch some of his lessons with pupils on there, I don't care who you are everyone will pick up something to help them by watching his videos.

 

[naji]

So basically what naji is getting at is TOI is the bees knees, but not to apply a TOI but to use it to compensate for a wonky stroke. Interesting. CJ, I think naji has hit upon a whole new target audience and use of TOI...touch of inside to actually hit centre cue ball, or TOITAHCCB for short

As for Nic Barrow - he is one hell of an instructor. I've been lucky enough to have had lots of lessons with Nic when I was in my teens. People need to look up his YouTube channel and watch some of his lessons with pupils on there, I don't care who you are everyone will pick up something to help them by watching his videos.

Ok Pidge actually does not have to be TOI, could be TOO, or a little high on CB, little low , what ever makes the tip strikes where you wanted. trial and error. But has to be pivoted, and same stroke back swing length, and a long pause at CB a must, other wise no need to offset (if you normally do not pause). the offset from center depends on how fast, or slow you hit, and other factors, shaft length. In fact if you want say little outside english, aim tip at center of CB, the default "bad stroke" will take care of the english! remember, CB steers to one direction, so left cut aim, is different than right cut aim.

 

[Pidge]

But what if I have a straight stroke, will your method work?

 

[naji]

But what if I have a straight stroke, will your method work?

If you have straight stroke at all speeds, you good, if not, the tip in my previoue post above could help at certain shots where steering happens.

 

[ceebee]

Great post. I start every practice session with a little drill barenada suggests on his website. It goes as follows.

Put an object ball on the center spot and set the cue ball in the kitchen for a straight in shot across the table (see picture). You must make 5 pots in a row or 15 pots total, whichever comes first. This drill has made straight-ins simple for me and it makes me bear down on every shot. I actually back the cue ball to the back half of the kitchen to drill sometimes. If you keep track of your misses, you will notice trends and adjust accordingly.

This is the shot that I cut my teeth on, straight ins. It was also an instructional video, later in my my life, that helped me, by Bert Kinister, "The MIGHTY X". I perceive the straight in as the only shot with a physical feature to line up the shot... the tangent on the bottom of the ball. It just takes a little focus to find it.

Good Luck

 

[His Boy Elroy]

The main thing is hit the center of the cue ball.
miss centerball= miss shot, go sit down for a while
I have shot thousands of these.

http://vimeo.com/39948210

If you gotta pivot or are married to toi, I don't think it is going to work here.
and you gotta stroke it straight.

this other video I just watched where he imagines two lines connecting both sides of the ball I have never considered. I'll give it a try tmrw.

And I admit, if the shot you see me make so many times in this video comes up in a game, I screwed something up, and not very happy about it.
steven

I'm late to the party. I find long, straight in shots to be a real test. There's no shot with less than a 30 degree cut that even comes in a close 2nd...or 3rd...or 4th on the "tough test" meter. If there is a deviation from straight by as little as 1/8 of an inch, I have no problem. I really don't think many, if any of those shots you took were truly straight. You lined them up much too casually. It takes me at least 15 seconds to line up a perfectly straight shot like that.

Nevertheless; even if the balls were 1/4 to 1/8" deviated from straight you're a terrific shot - maker; and it really looks like you're hitting center balll. On most days I couldn't do that hitting center ball. On most days, provided the balls were 1/8 to 1/4" deviated from straight as I suspect, I could put on that performance using T.O.I. I guess we're all different.You won't get the benefit of the 3 part pocket system if you're hitting center ball; nevertheless, that was a bit of an eye - opener for me.

 

[naji]

I'm late to the party. I find long, straight in shots to be a real test. There's no shot with less than a 30 degree cut that even comes in a close 2nd...or 3rd...or 4th on the "tough test" meter. If there is a deviation from straight by as little as 1/8 of an inch, I have no problem. I really don't think many, if any of those shots you took were truly straight. You lined them up much too casually. It takes me at least 15 seconds to line up a perfectly straight shot like that.

Nevertheless; even if the balls were 1/4 to 1/8" deviated from straight you're a terrific shot - maker; and it really looks like you're hitting center balll. On most days I couldn't do that hitting center ball. On most days, provided the balls were 1/8 to 1/4" deviated from straight as I suspect, I could put on that performance using T.O.I. I guess we're all different.You won't get the benefit of the 3 part pocket system if you're hitting center ball; nevertheless, that was a bit of an eye - opener for me.

Boy Elroy, driven, shot good straight shots, but once his stroke back swing gets longer he misses the shot way off! of which is an indication of stroke issue, also he is showing one speed mostly. The test is to do straight shot at all speeds, better yet 5 or 6 diamond combo shot at all speed, now we are talking, that will show your real stroke, and ability to hit center CB and aim squeezer! for combo shots, place OBs next to long rail, about 1/2 spacing to be consistent-5 diamonds apart , rather than at middle of table, the idea here is not only pocket the OB, but watch where the OB # 1 contact OB#2, good teacher for adjusting throw too!

 

[riedmich]

He should use TOI ! ;-)

And what a bad bad backswing!

 

[CJ Wiley]

"Playing flawless pool is a result, not an incentive"

The one thing you don't want to do as a player is rely on a "perfect contact" to the cue ball.....this puts a lot of pressure on any player, no matter what their skill level. There's a better way, and it's not that difficult to understand.

I can set up a straight in combination that no player on earth would bet they could make.....and all they really have to do is hit the ball perfectly straight.

This is no small order, it's best to favor a side of the ball (slightly) so if you do miss {your cue ball target} slightly it goes in a predictable direction......then, and only then can you still play the game flawlessly.....because you have a built in margin of error at your point of contact (cue ball).

"Playing flawless pool is a result, not an incentive" - 'The Game is my Teacher'

Ok Pidge actually does not have to be TOI, could be TOO, or a little high on CB, little low , what ever makes the tip strikes where you wanted. trial and error. But has to be pivoted, and same stroke back swing length, and a long pause at CB a must, other wise no need to offset (if you normally do not pause). the offset from center depends on how fast, or slow you hit, and other factors, shaft length. In fact if you want say little outside english, aim tip at center of CB, the default "bad stroke" will take care of the english! remember, CB steers to one direction, so left cut aim, is different than right cut aim.

 

[driven]

I'm late to the party. I find long, straight in shots to be a real test. There's no shot with less than a 30 degree cut that even comes in a close 2nd...or 3rd...or 4th on the "tough test" meter. If there is a deviation from straight by as little as 1/8 of an inch, I have no problem. I really don't think many, if any of those shots you took were truly straight. You lined them up much too casually. It takes me at least 15 seconds to line up a perfectly straight shot like that.

Nevertheless; even if the balls were 1/4 to 1/8" deviated from straight you're a terrific shot - maker; and it really looks like you're hitting center balll. On most days I couldn't do that hitting center ball. On most days, provided the balls were 1/8 to 1/4" deviated from straight as I suspect, I could put on that performance using T.O.I. I guess we're all different.You won't get the benefit of the 3 part pocket system if you're hitting center ball; nevertheless, that was a bit of an eye - opener for me.

thx for the compliment.
for the record, they were all straight. Mostly to center pocket, but not always.
that table had pretty big pockets, I could be straight in to one side of the other. still straight. I guess I can just see a straight line.
I shoot the drill mostly for what I call stroke maintenance.
although not very often, lately.
Get everything in line and hit it, for better or worse. Learn.
I hit only six or eight pure center ball shots the entire video.
I never counted the misses but I know it was lots more than six or eight.
center ball never lies, that is for sure
steven

 

[driven]

I have put a lot of time and thought into this exact topic. I feel now that my percentage on a straight shot is near 100. These are the things that have helped me over the years:

1) You need the correct visual to see the shot the right way. I would recommend giving a call to Geno on here...he has put a lot of study into seeing the shot right. A friend of mine, actually the manager of Snookers in Providence, RI helped my out *tremendously*. He has these little black stickers. They look like the number 8, with two circles exactly the size of pool balls. The idea is you put the sticker down on the table with the little arrow aiming straight into the pocket. You place the object ball on the front "ball" of the sticker. The back ball is like a ghost ball, with a little red dot in the center. Now, the strange part is, you take the thin white backing to the sticker and stand it up against the back of the object ball, such that you cannot see the object ball when you are down to shoot. All you can see is the rear ghost ball with the red dot in the center. You then practice shooting the cue ball at the red dot. You know you did it when the object ball goes straight in. This obviously will be nothing like most people aim, but that isn't the point. The point is to shoot perfectly straight *AT* the thing you are trying to shoot at. Most people just don't see "straight" correctly. I can't tell you how much this helped me.

2) Alignment: pretty self explanatory. I used to set up a shot that was straight in diagonally across the table, with the OB 2 diamonds up from the end rail and 1 diamond over from the side rail, and the CB the same on the other corner. The goal is to shoot the ball in and draw back into the corner pocket near me, *nothing but net*!! Meaning you can't even touch the facings of the pocket. I've done that shot 100's of times. I noticed that 2 grooves appeared on my table...one perfectly straight, and one that veered off to the left about 1/2 inch. Clearly on those left shots, my alignment was off. So you really gotta fix this. I simple test is to set up a straight in, get down to shoot, and close your eyes. Relax your arm 100% and just stroke. If the ball is going in, you probably have good alignment. If not, you will be fighting yourself all the time. Get a competent instructor, because its really hard to see yourself. Or video tape yourself from head on or directly behind.

3) Do the drill I just mentioned. A LOT! You really need to learn how to aim thru the cue ball at the center of the object ball. Then just connect them. Gotta be free and loose. But to be honest, I have tightened up my grip a bit, sort of "loading" my wrist...I don't find it hurts my accuracy one bit. If anything, it might be better.The main thing is not to clench when you shoot.

4) Find a mirror that you can stand up at with your cue. Bend down to shoot as if the cue ball is right at the mirror surface. Look only at the cue tip in the mirror coming at your cue tip in reality. You want to align yourself so that it looks like if you stroked thru the mirror tip would go directly straight into your real tip. In other words the two cues should form a perfectly straight line. You will have to adjust where on your face you hold the cue in order for it to look like this. Now, when it looks perfectly straight, see where the cue sits on your face. *This* is your center of vision. You should make a real point to place this part of your face very precisely on the line of the shot. This way, you will *see* what *straight* is. This is so huge I can't even say.

I'm sure there is more, but I think if you try these things you will improve your accuracy on all shots, but especially straight in.

Hope it helps! Good luck and report back!

KMRUNOUT

That is one heck of a drill, It might not be much fun with my draw stroke though.
steven

 

[driven]

Boy Elroy, driven, shot good straight shots, but once his stroke back swing gets longer he misses the shot way off! of which is an indication of stroke issue, also he is showing one speed mostly. The test is to do straight shot at all speeds, better yet 5 or 6 diamond combo shot at all speed, now we are talking, that will show your real stroke, and ability to hit center CB and aim squeezer! for combo shots, place OBs next to long rail, about 1/2 spacing to be consistent-5 diamonds apart , rather than at middle of table, the idea here is not only pocket the OB, but watch where the OB # 1 contact OB#2, good teacher for adjusting throw too!

"but once his stroke back swing gets longer he misses the shot way off! of which is an indication of stroke issue"

Thank you for the observation, that could very well be another issue.
The speed of the shots is necessary due to the fact it is center ball practice....
hit it slower and lose the cue ball long.
steven

 

[driven]

The one thing you don't want to do as a player is rely on a "perfect contact" to the cue ball.....this puts a lot of pressure on any player, no matter what their skill level. There's a better way, and it's not that difficult to understand.

I can set up a straight in combination that no player on earth would bet they could make.....and all they really have to do is hit the ball perfectly straight.

This is no small order, it's best to favor a side of the ball (slightly) so if you do miss {your cue ball target} slightly it goes in a predictable direction......then, and only then can you still play the game flawlessly.....because you have a built in margin of error at your point of contact (cue ball).

"Playing flawless pool is a result, not an incentive" - 'The Game is my Teacher'

The one thing you don't want to do as a player is rely on a "perfect contact" to the cue ball
CJ said that.

If I need low left, I can hit the area and get pretty much where I need to be.
There is now way to gauge my accuracy in this shot.
I agree "perfect contact" is pretty much unreliable. I prove this in my video.
At least for a person of my skill level.
No matter, It is a goal worth pursuing.
Is there a way you recommend playing this shot?
centerball would be my last choice.
steven

 

[CJ Wiley]

If you initiate this movement with your head it's going to lead to many problems

I would recommend working on how you actually go down and address the cue ball. Start this motion with your lower body, make your hips move away from the cue ball to start your head moving down (and towards) the cue ball.

If you initiate this movement with your head it's going to lead to many problems that will be persistent. The key is make the movement from the bottom up, rather than from the top down.

This will give you enough info to practice, if you have questions I'll be happy to help in any way I can......this aspect is very important to playing at the higher levels because you can keep your upper body angles nearly the same on every shot.

If, on the other hand, you dip your head down, you will also slump your shoulders and lose the continuity in your approach to the cue ball.....this is almost impossible to do consistently and will lead to "good days," and days when you may feel helpless.

'The Game is the Teacher'

The one thing you don't want to do as a player is rely on a "perfect contact" to the cue ball
CJ said that.

If I need low left, I can hit the area and get pretty much where I need to be.
There is now way to gauge my accuracy in this shot.
I agree "perfect contact" is pretty much unreliable. I prove this in my video.
At least for a person of my skill level.
No matter, It is a goal worth pursuing.
Is there a way you recommend playing this shot?
centerball would be my last choice.
steven

 

[DTL]

.........................

 

[Mikjary]

In this video below, Nic Barrow (renowned snooker coach) advocates the opposite. He says the first movement into the shot (shot line) should be leaning slightly forward with the head/upper body.............."the feet should follow the head vs the head following the feet". Note: Although CTE Pro1 is a different approach to aiming (offset) it promotes the "eyes lead and body follows".

I'm not sure if pool and snooker techniques should be the same, similar, somewhat close or whatever but the fact is that our top 10 American players can't even complete (at snooker) with their non-ranked players (Q-School).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0rMSZfg0Tw

I think this is a great video to help a player keep their head on the shot line. I worked with this for quite a while after trying to break many years of bad habits. As a pool player, not a snooker stylist, I eventually outgrew the need to step into the shot.

I found that setting up close to my actual shooting position/alignment eliminated some of the side to side movements Nic focuses on in the video. By doing this, I realized a small movement down into the shot was all I really needed to do after aiming.

The key to consistency was, as Nic said, keeping the head on the shot line. I don't bend down by moving my head and shoulders, but rather I lower my center of gravity. This uses the bigger core muscles which eliminates any side to side movement for me.

I don't sit, but initiate my downward movement with my hips and then involve my upper body at the finish. As CJ says, I move my hips away from the cue ball, adjusting slightly for bridge position and stroking distance. I actually use Nic's finish as he gets down over the table.

CJ put out this info several months ago and it was then I realized I could get rid of the long setup of stepping into the shot. For a player like me, who gets lazy occasionally, less moving parts is better.

Another player may play stronger with a different approach and like to step into the shot. It causes problems for me and I'm not as consistent. But, I tried both ways to find out. The finish was ultimately the goal and I think both methods accomplish that.

Best,
Mike

 

[His Boy Elroy]

I am simply baffled by this thread. I've read some good players say the toughest shot for them is the long, almost straight shot where the object ball is about 1/4 inch deviated from straight. It's easy for me. The long, perfectly straight shot is my achille's heal; yet a whole bunch of posters here find it to be easy....IT'S A FUNNY GAME!

 

[Neil]

The one thing you don't want to do as a player is rely on a "perfect contact" to the cue ball.....this puts a lot of pressure on any player, no matter what their skill level. There's a better way, and it's not that difficult to understand.

I can set up a straight in combination that no player on earth would bet they could make.....and all they really have to do is hit the ball perfectly straight.

This is no small order, it's best to favor a side of the ball (slightly) so if you do miss {your cue ball target} slightly it goes in a predictable direction......then, and only then can you still play the game flawlessly.....because you have a built in margin of error at your point of contact (cue ball).

"Playing flawless pool is a result, not an incentive" - 'The Game is my Teacher'

That perfectly straight in combo- you know as well as anyone else that the only way to make it is with a perfect contact to the cue ball and ob. Your off-set hit has ZERO chance of making it, so why even post what you did?

 

[riedmich]

I really wanna know what kind of stuff the TOI gurus smoke... Using TOI in general is nothing else than ridiculous, it is just one more variable to control and brings your rate of repeatability down. Trying to use it at a straight in shot: ridiculous!

 

[Mikjary]

I've used it on a straight in shot when I'm close to the pocket and I can create an angle easily. As I get further from the pocket, it's a lot tougher to cheat the pocket.

The deflection is pretty reliable, so the speed component of the stroke is mainly what I try to get a feel for on each shot. I also have used it to go from short rail to short rail on a really good day! :thumbup:

Best,
Mike