Straight In Shots

[the chicken]

When I want to cinch a long, straight in shot, I aim the cue ball for a stop shot (to reduce the likelihood of putting unwanted spin on the cue ball).

 

[Bob Jewett]

When I want to cinch a long, straight in shot, I aim the cue ball for a stop shot (to reduce the likelihood of putting unwanted spin on the cue ball).

I think this is the wrong thing to do because any unintended side spin that you do get on the cue ball will have maximum effect on a stop shot (when the cue ball has neither follow nor draw when it hits the object ball). If you have either draw or follow on the cue ball when it arrives, there will be less throw from unintended side.

 

[Old Nine Baller]

It's a powerful stroke.
Efren and Lassiter couldn't be wrong.

You need a good cue of course. Throw away them whippy cues.

I'm going to go out on a limb here but I'm guessing you stroke straight and probably don't "swerve" the cue to one side or the other when you stroke. A tremendous benefit of letting the cue slide forward when you stroke. Another is that you must trust yourself to let it go and so have more confidence when you play.

The thing is, if a player doesn't have a firm, comfortable stance, a straight stroke, a good grip and a solid, relaxed bridge you'll have problems playing no matter what. Everything has to be built on solid foundations. This is where it starts and these points are also the most overlooked when people suggest "tricks" to help people with poor habits to improve.

ONB

 

[naji]

If you've been playing for 35 years and have not yet developed a straight, repeatable stroke then you've wasted much time but it's your time. I've been playing longer than 35 years and my stroke is good, right and left-handed.

I do have a 100% straight stroke and it's been tested plenty of times under what most people (but not me) would regard as "pressure situations". I do not revert to bad habits under pressure because I have no bad habits. Believe what you want.

Cutting a ball in either direction is the same thing, it's only in your head.

There is so much misinformation on this site and in this thread it's a wonder anyone here can ever make a ball.

You say I cannot look past myself? I'm trying to help a person not waste the next 35 years(as you did) of their poolplaying by doing all the ridiculous things suggested in this thread to pocket the simplest shot in pool, you are contributing to the confusion.

ONB

OK I yield master, sorry to have taken your time. You the best. I wish to see your ideal straight stroke, one day and learn.

 

[driven]

I think this is the wrong thing to do because any unintended side spin that you do get on the cue ball will have maximum effect on a stop shot (when the cue ball has neither follow nor draw when it hits the object ball). If you have either draw or follow on the cue ball when it arrives, there will be less throw from unintended side.

agreed.
centerball is a good practice shot because of the feedback you get in return.
in a game a little follow or draw is much easier. more forgiving. at least a little
steven

 

[CJ Wiley]

This is really good training for the advanced TOI Practitioners

If pool was so easy that we could just "cinch" straight in shots it would be a lot less challenging.

The reality is when we get "straight in," we usually have to move the cue ball off the straight line for shape....this is a problem for many players. Making the shot is relatively easy, however, "cheating the pocket" to enable the player to get tough position is not "so easy".

I believe the TOI technique is the best to achieve this because it automatically moves the cue ball slightly off the straight line (that's how TOI creates a larger margin for error zone)......so try setting up a "straight in shot" and cueing it slightly to the left to hit the right side of the pocket, or cue it right to hit the left side of the pocket.

This is really good training for the advanced TOI Practitioners, and will give you immediate feedback on your stoke's precision and accuracy.

I agree with you if there is no pause in the action, or just a fraction of a second pause, then there is no muscle jerking or sleeping and TOI is not needed, if you take a long pause muscles kinda sleeps, and will tuck toward the body as you back swing, and on forward motion it will hit CB at a slight angle which puts english on CB. This is where TOI , very short stroke, and other methods comes in handy. Especially for those that has the long pause ingrained in their brain, hard to change the habit and TOI will fixes it, but there is learning curve and some tricks to it, prompted CJ to create a DVD for it.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Improving in pool takes the willingness to change certain attitudes, beliefs and.....

I'm glad you tried what I suggested with an open mind. Improving in pool takes the willingness to change certain attitudes, beliefs and emotional attachments.....just long enough to truly grasp the new concepts.

You know what they say "you can't teach an old dog new tricks"

'The Game is the Teacher'

Common, do you think, 99% of people did not do what you are saying, it is common since, but they cannot get there, maybe they do not have a table at home, or have million hours to straighten their stroke; what CJ is saying made a lot of since and i tried it, and it does work perfectly, and i only been playing for 35 years!

Fortunate for you, you have 100% straight stroke (yet to be witnessed during pressure match) or got a million hours on your hand to practice! therefore, you cannot look past yourself. It is ok, majority of us think the others, that we do not agree with, are dead wrong, because we do not know all facts. Pool is dynamic game, and involves moving body parts, and unfortunately not all body parts are the same, tall people should have different approach than short, it depends on your hand muscle structure, and stance. At the end of the day; a player who strive to reach the top should try everything.

Ok i will side with you, only during practice none pressure situation, we get better stroke; or have the ability to be aware to keep stroke straight, but during pressure moments, brain cannot remember everything, and defaults to the bad habits, of which is elbow tuck during back swing, and cutting OB to left is different than cutting to right.

By the way i do not know or talk to CJ, or sell anything, i only say what i see and tried, in fact if you see previous posts (older ones) of mine, i had same opinion as yours! but I gained more knowledge, and got a little more time, to believe other wise.

You are entitled to your opinion; i am not asking you to change it. But i will be 1st one to change mine if and when i am wrong.

Oh by the way, nothing wrong with shooting the wrong way if you are good at it!

 

[onepocketron]

I think straight shots are easier....but they are the hardest to alibi.
...no one can claim that they misjudged the cut.

It's the proof of how straight your stroke is....and whether you can find
center ball or not.

It is wise to practice them.....
...and don't compensate for any flaws....cure the problem.

What he said, especially "cure the problem".

 

[Snuden]

I have practised that for 5 months, 3 - 4 hours a day.
It works wonders.

 

[The Renfro]

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[The Renfro]

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[Straightpool_99]

Seriously, WTH?!

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[Pidge]

The only time you should ever be using side to get the effect of a straight in shot is to throw a ball. Aim thick, use outside, throw the ball in, have the ball stop dead whilst rotating horizontally. I can't think of any reason to use side on a shot that is straight in, this is about the best I can think of.

I can use extreme side on a straight in shot, have the cue ball stun and spin on the spot and it looks as though the object ball goes straight, but it doesn't. It throws very slightly to one side of the pocket, but again why anyone would want to do this us beyond me. For those struggling with straight ins, don't pay any attention to what I said...stick to centre ball.

 

[Island Drive]

I used to miss long straight in shots but the past 6 months I have been lining up a hair on the inside of the cueball which somehow translates to a dead center ball for me. I can't explain why so I won't try. Somehow on my follow through the object ball reacts like a center ball hit so it doesn't throw off like it used to, now it stuns in the pocket or appears too.

When I used to use center ball on long straight shots I think when I followed through I hit the cueball off to the right a hair which tranferred spin to the object ball and I would miss. My make percentage has gone way up on long straight in shots.

Thanks for the post!!

There's one expression in pool that nails it. Whitey Never Lies. Your above correct, assessment of ''outcome of shot'' gave you the needed information to realize your bodies natural quirks and tendencies. Processing the action reaction of all ball collisions is tantamount in pool for building muscle memory. It's one of the key reasons to look at the object ball Last....

 

[naji]

Ok, ok...You can make any shot using english of any kind. But why would ANYONE shoot a straight in shot (with no other goal besides making it) with anything other than a center ball hit on the vertical axis? With an off center hit you bring in several potential problems:

1. You need to hit the shot with exactly the speed you intended. If you hit a shot off the vertical center axis you bring in swerve and deflection. The net effect of these two factors, which is the line (or curve) followed by the cueball is dependent on speed. That means that if you hit the shot softer or harder than intended you might miss it. The worst part of this is that the important high pressure shots are where you are most likely to either let up on your stroke or "over amp" them due to adrenaline. That means that even if you nail these shots in practice with english you might miss them in competition!

2. Elevation: English makes elevation of the cue significant. Any slight change in elevation will make a difference. That may seem like a minor point, but it isn't. Many people unintentionally elevate their cue from time to time, and might not even notice themselves. I am one of these people. And what if you have to cue over a full or half of a ball?

3. Throw. As the balls get dirtier during the game, they might throw more. If the cueball has english on it at contact, this becomes significant. At certain speeds you could throw the ball out of the pocket!

A center ball hit of the cueball on a straight in shot is not crucially dependent on any of these things. If you hit the cueball in the center on the correct aim line speed does not matter. Elevation will not matter either, as long as you don't actually jump the object ball or make it jump the table (extreme elevation and speed, unlikely mistake to make). Throw or its extreme variation (skid/kick/cling) will not cause you to miss the shot with a center ball either. It might kill draw or follow action on the cueball, but that is it.

If you struggle with straight ins it is likely you are putting unintentional english on the ball or aligning your body wrong. Start with a medium length straight in . Stroke the shot extremely slowly with a long stroke, taking care to observe if you are steering your shot in any way. If you are, your alignment is off. Use a mirror or camera as suggested or get a buddy to watch you from the front. If you pass the first test (no steering) but start putting unintentional english on the ball on the hard straight in shots, you have a stroke flaw. Set the same shot up and shot it gradually harder. When the english starts to appear make a note in any differences (wrist movement or elbow movement most likely) between the different speeds of stroke.

Straightpool_99, you are talking common sense, but the problem is all of us forget a step or two; how many times we forget to follow through, or grip the butt so hard, or not pause, or have wrong stance, or forget the throw, or swerve, or, or, or... Pool is very hard, so many steps involved; for say some one who just started maybe he or she can start right, and apply everything, but that does not mean they will remember to apply.
The other problem in pool, the errors are usually caused by multiple factors, and to know what caused it it takes experience, and long practice; one of the most troubling, is 100% accurate stance all the time, which usually translate into straight stroke, ok, some one say, i will change my stance, in practice all dandy and good, go to play a match, and all of a sudden he or she is boxing it! ops! why! changing a habit is really hard; So as a tool, or if you like, a troubleshooter tool, TOI, 1st corrects your stance so no need to have deliberate not used to stance, 2nd, it allows you to be more deliberate and focused on where the tip goes. It is true it does brings other little issues that someone has to get used to, just like anything else.
Would you rather i teach people to aim way off to make a shot? or TOI!

 

[Straightpool_99]

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[Island Drive]

Baseline

The principles of a 12 o'clock high center cue ball that arrives at the correct object ball contact point rolling Naturally must be taught first. This knowledge will simplify play & develop ones speed control.

 

[Neil]

Neil you have shot the "right way for you" 40 years now... Give it rest.. You didn't make it... Go enjoy League and the younguns that will listen to you.. there is no legacy here......

Didn't "make it"? Didn't make it where? To Brokeville? Actually, most of my playing time was shooting the wrong way. It wasn't until I started doing things the right way that I really improved. I did "make it" far enough that I was competitive with pros in tournaments when I wanted to be. Not to bad for just playing a couple hours a day several days a week. And, for a while, when I did practice a lot every day, my high run was 12 racks unbroken, a ten pack, and a bunch of 9 packs. (no matter what your "style", you have to spent a lot of time on the table)

So, by your statement, we must assume that you did "make it". And, I know you are just trying to discredit me with your nonsense statements, but I haven't played league for many, many years. Just what is YOUR legacy that anyone should listen to what you have to say about how to play? You won't even take any of the "tests" on here because you are ashamed of what your scores would be publicly. That's pretty sad in it's own right.

But, you just keep going down the same "to nowhere" path you are on. It's easier than actually change and hard work to improve. :wink:

 

[naji]

You are of course free to teach your students anything you want. If TOI is the cure for a certain students problems, then that is excellent. As a general advice I'm not sure if TOI is as good...I disagree with or at least question a couple of your assertions which I have detailed below:

1. How can TOI "correct your stance"? I truely don't understand what you mean by this at all. CJ himself says to align to center ball and then "shift" over to the TOI position. That makes two steps instead of one. Also, wouldn't it be easier to align to center and make any micro adjustments back to center ball? That way there would be no tension from the shift (I hope you understand what I mean). Also if you truely believe that the twist or shift into position is better, then why not teach CTE or PRO1?
I've posted this video multiple times allready, but I hope you will forgive me for posting it once again, since it is the video that probably has been most helpful to me ever, because it shows the process of alignment so beautifully.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlMxPngOYos


2. While TOI makes you more focused on your tip position, like you claim, it also makes said position more crucial and ultimately more likely to cause a miss (I don't care what anyone says about this, I've tried it out and those were my findings, take them for what they are worth). Why not try the Bert Kinister drill where you have a straight in shot and try to make the cueball take the object balls position? That teaches tip awareness better than anything I've ever tried.

Thanks for the info, and Youtube. I am sure you know, what happens when you pause with the tip at CB, before back swing, when you back swing a player tends to pull the cue off line especially if it is a long back swing; therefore, if you pause with tip at say 1/8" tip at right hand of CB center (pivoted of course), as you pull shaft, it swings to left, as you push it pushes at center of shaft for a center hit, no english will be applied to CB. If your stance ideal snooker stance, then you are going back and fourth almost straight, but with pool stance this issue is normal, and TOI corrects for it (if you pause at CB).
The Youtube you attached is great, it shows the pause at the max drawn shaft position, in lieu of pause at CB, it give brain time to locate tip contact at CB i assume, since he is done with OB and aiming, confirm if you know. Thanks.
I am not saying CJ way or no way, i am just saying it has advantages, and should be considered.

 

[DTL]

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