What defines a "confident stroke"?

JoeyA

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
This should be a real test for everyone. I'm just looking for YOUR opinion. You don't have to be "right" or "wrong", just what you think.

I'm not talking about the results of a confident stroke, like making the shot and getting shape.

What physical properties or mental properties should define a "confident stroke".

What is the difference difference between a "confident stroke" and one that is not? How are they different?

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
This should be a real test for everyone. I'm just looking for YOUR opinion. You don't have to be "right" or "wrong", just what you think.

I'm not talking about the results of a confident stroke, like making the shot and getting shape.

What physical properties or mental properties should define a "confident stroke".

What is the difference difference between a "confident stroke" and one that is not? How are they different?

JoeyA
Click to expand...

A confident stroke?

A confident stroke is when you can stroke the cue at the exact speed you want without hesitation. Some guys have a confident punch stroke, some have a confident follow through. I would say that if you are focusing everything on your stroke before each shot, then you are not confident at all.
 
I would say a confident stroke is one where you know exactly what you are shooting for. I other words you know before you shoot where you are leaving the cueball and you know exactly what is going to happen as a result of your cue contacting the cueball. A confident stroke is one in which you have done all the aiming and you are no longer thinking.

You are just letting the cue and your arm do the work from muscle memory.
 
many players think they do this effectively, only a few actually do.

The confident stroke must have the following characteristic - the shooting hand must draw back and return to the starting position (where the tip is directly behind the cue ball) with acceleration. This guarantees the maximum force is achieved at the moment of contact - many players think they do this effectively, only a few actually do.

This isn't achieved by trying to "stroke" smoothly though the cue ball - although this "sounds good," it leads to a slight deceleration and the inability to get that quick, precise reaction desired from the cue ball.

It's very difficult to see the difference, however if can be heard.....I call this "pinning the shot," and it makes a distinctly higher pitched sound at impact. Buddy Hall was one of the greatest strikers of the cue ball and I mastered the technique from watching and listening to him.....he knew the "secret" of using the edge of the tip to play the game. 'The Game is the Teacher' - www.cjwiley.com


JoeyA said:
This should be a real test for everyone. I'm just looking for YOUR opinion. You don't have to be "right" or "wrong", just what you think.

I'm not talking about the results of a confident stroke, like making the shot and getting shape.

What physical properties or mental properties should define a "confident stroke".

What is the difference difference between a "confident stroke" and one that is not? How are they different?

JoeyA
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
The confident stroke must have the following characteristic - the shooting hand must draw back and return to the starting position (where the tip is directly behind the cue ball) with acceleration. This guarantees the maximum force is achieved at the moment of contact - many players think they do this effectively, only a few actually do.

This isn't achieved by trying to "stroke" smoothly though the cue ball - although this "sounds good," it leads to a slight deceleration and the inability to get that quick, precise reaction desired from the cue ball.

It's very difficult to see the difference, however if can be heard.....I call this "pinning the shot," and it makes a distinctly higher pitched sound at impact. Buddy Hall was one of the greatest strikers of the cue ball and I mastered the technique from watching and listening to him.....he knew the "secret" of using the edge of the tip to play the game. 'The Game is the Teacher' - www.cjwiley.com
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that you should not have the same speed throughout the forward stroke and you should only achieve that speed right before contact with the cueball? What if you achieve that speed early on in the stroke but stop accelerating after? My view on it is that I know the speed I have to hit the cueball to get correct positioning. As long as that speed is present upon contact with the cueball it shouldn't matter when during the forward stroke you achieved that speed. I envision forward speed as almost instantaneous from the moment of the beginning of the forward motion.
 
Great input, especially by CJ.
I'd say besides having a good idea of what you expect from the shot and good concentration upon execution without thinking and body movement, a full last back swing and follow through with authority (trust your follow through) are essential. Also release of the cue (follow through) should start right before the tip reaches the initial position behind the CB and not before, especially in 8-9-10ball break shots.
Petros
 
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there's a "golden nugget" in this seemingly innocent bit of information

No, I'm saying you need an accelerating speed between your backswing and cue ball contact.....the follow through should be shorter than you're currently achieving.

Unless you are a champion player you probably are not getting full acceleration at the moment of contact.......very few players actually do.

Notice it's about the consistent hand position at address that I'm emphasizing....don't let this go unnoticed, there's a "golden nugget" in this seemingly innocent bit of information. 'The Game is the Teacher'


zpele said:
So what you are saying is that you should not have the same speed throughout the forward stroke and you should only achieve that speed right before contact with the cueball? What if you achieve that speed early on in the stroke but stop accelerating after? My view on it is that I know the speed I have to hit the cueball to get correct positioning. As long as that speed is present upon contact with the cueball it shouldn't matter when during the forward stroke you achieved that speed. I envision forward speed as almost instantaneous from the moment of the beginning of the forward motion.
Click to expand...
 
CJ Wiley said:
The confident stroke must have the following characteristic - the shooting hand must draw back and return to the starting position (where the tip is directly behind the cue ball) with acceleration. This guarantees the maximum force is achieved at the moment of contact - many players think they do this effectively, only a few actually do.

This isn't achieved by trying to "stroke" smoothly though the cue ball - although this "sounds good," it leads to a slight deceleration and the inability to get that quick, precise reaction desired from the cue ball.

It's very difficult to see the difference, however if can be heard.....I call this "pinning the shot," and it makes a distinctly higher pitched sound at impact. Buddy Hall was one of the greatest strikers of the cue ball and I mastered the technique from watching and listening to him.....he knew the "secret" of using the edge of the tip to play the game. 'The Game is the Teacher' - www.cjwiley.com
Click to expand...

Interesting input. While watching the recent drill dvd with Appleton, I watched his cue tip closely and noticed how he had great acceleration especially on the long draw shot drills. These weren't long, flowing, smooth strokes by any means. The video quality was quite good to allow me to see this.
 
I've been told I have a confident stroke (I know I don't in matchplay, but maybe I actually do in practice). I chalk it up to mostly mental ability - I step to the table and shoot without hesitating and that's what I think a confident stroke is.

Being able to approach the table, shoot without hesitating or second guessing yourself.

Sent from my X501_USA_Cricket using Tapatalk 2
 
Although Shanes stroke is of another world, I also analyze Niels Feijen stroke in hopes that I can achieve a similar style. They both have a slight pause or hesitation between back swing and forward stroke. Shane's is more pronounced, so niels is more realistic to achieve. But it's the combination of their back swing and that slight hesitation which makes their stroke so much more confident in appearance and of course their results are deadly accurate.

I believe CJ touched upon this hesitation in his video when applying the principles of archery, there is the pull back and load up of potential, then release.

It's pure art when done correctly. But to just go onto the table and try to imitate it throws my shot way off. It obviously takes years of practice to perfect.
 
I actually ask myself to monitor my stroking as I play. Until I get deep into the zone, I give myself a grade on a portion of my shots. I don't worry about it on the easy shots, but as I get into the medium to hard lower percentage shots, I assess my stroke as confident, slight hesitation or hesitation.

It's a good way for me to send a message to my brain about who's in charge. It lets me realize I need to get to auto pilot and stop hesitating and steering the cue stick. After a few spasms, my mind starts to relent and the pool brain gradually takes over.

Yes...I am delusional. playing-smiley08.gif

Best,
Mike
 
So, a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. That doesn't necessarily mean a FAST STROKE; it just means that the stroke is accelerating. Someone wrote a good definition of what an accelerating stroke was; maybe Mike page, I'm not really sure.

But since no one has disagreed that a "confident stroke" is an accelerating stroke. (I agree with that too.)

DECELERATION: So WHY is a decelerating stroke a BAD thing?
What does a decelerating stroke do that makes it such a bad thing?
If your stroke slows down as the tip approaches the cue ball, what on earth physically is it that makes it so bad when it hits the cue ball, except for the cue ball being hit by the tip with less speed?


And I agree also with one of the posters, a "confident stroke" is partly a mental thing which is something that some of us occasionally have to actually think about when we're not using a "confident stroke".

My 26 year old Scotch Doubles partner this weekend mentioned to me that I play much better than I was showing on a couple of easy shots and told me that I needed to provide a confident stroke and he was correct. I think playing for over 12 hours straight had me, what the old-time players used to call "rum-dumb" and had me shooting easy shots like I was "hoping" the balls to fall in the hole. This didn't happen all of the time but deceleration was most likely a part of it. I still played well on occasion but I missed a couple of unbelievably easy shots during that 12 hour period. I've been Juicing(as in vegetable & fruit juice), meditating, exercising, practicing, learning, competing and even with all of those things, I falter on occasion. We lost our first match and played almost non stop for over 12 hours against 36 other teams and maybe it just took its toll on me.

Anyway, thanks for all of the great posts on this subject. I will check back to hear what you and others may have to say on the subjects.

Thanks,


JoeyA
 
a confident stroke is when your initial strokes (before hitting the cue ball) are at rhythm. notice efren's pattern before he hits the CB, as compared to when he hesitates on the shot - where he adds two or three quick strokes then stands up and repeats his whole shot routine.
also check on how alcano does his pre-shot routine. sometimes he would stroke at least 7 times just to ensure that the shot is right.
 
We call this hesitation "the gathering of the shot" - when you're fully coiled

Yes, this hesitation is important because it allows the delivery to be one, consistent movement to the cue ball......it actually takes energy to redirect the cue between backswing and the delivery motion.....pausing (the coil) keeps us from wasting energy and {ultimately} not coordinating the release of the hand properly.

We call this hesitation "the gathering of the shot," (because it gathers energy and coil from the backswing), and I suggest you exaggerate this in practice and resist the temptation to "hit the cue ball with your backswing".....not literally of course, although it does appear so in some cases....doing this correctly is no simple task.

There's more to it than just what's being stated.....understanding how the wrist and hand work together to maximize cue acceleration at the the moment of contact is also vital....it takes all these factors to create a "pinning" stroke. 'The Game is the Teacher'


Cardigan Kid said:
Although Shanes stroke is of another world, I also analyze Niels Feijen stroke in hopes that I can achieve a similar style. They both have a slight pause or hesitation between back swing and forward stroke. Shane's is more pronounced, so niels is more realistic to achieve. But it's the combination of their back swing and that slight hesitation which makes their stroke so much more confident in appearance and of course their results are deadly accurate.

I believe CJ touched upon this hesitation in his video when applying the principles of archery, there is the pull back and load up of potential, then release.

It's pure art when done correctly. But to just go onto the table and try to imitate it throws my shot way off. It obviously takes years of practice to perfect.
Click to expand...
 
I think it's all about acceleration as well.
When I'm at my best, I feel like I'm spearing the cue ball with my cue.
Conversely, you see players lose that accelerating stroke under pressure and once that happens, confidence is gone, they're pretty much dead in the water.

BTW, Stuart Pettman probably has the cleanest accelerating stroke I've seen in person:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i1US7FOrX8

It's a thing of beauty!
 
Joey son,it's not going to be a fact,rather,it's just folks making an opinion on the subject that you brought up.Aint many facts involved with a pool shot.

But since you asked...I'll give ya my thoughts....It's just the opp of a dog stroke:D John B.
 
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