maybe.........................

trinacria

trinacria

in efren we trust
Silver Member
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
20 tables, 2 grand, simple math.
the money is solely used for the pro league. the money is used to promote the game and pay truly talented individuals. in the grand scheme of things, the money is not much. but it adds up. include sponsors, the game gains recognition bigger sponsors come.
if the game is respected, people will respect it.
leagues would become better, they should pay a fee too, it all adds up.
bonus ball was a valiant effort, nobody plays it, nobody follows it.
who knows, its an idea, what do you think??
 
trinacria said:
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
20 tables, 2 grand, simple math.
the money is solely used for the pro league. the money is used to promote the game and pay truly talented individuals. in the grand scheme of things, the money is not much. but it adds up. include sponsors, the game gains recognition bigger sponsors come.
if the game is respected, people will respect it.
leagues would become better, they should pay a fee too, it all adds up.
bonus ball was a valiant effort, nobody plays it, nobody follows it.
who knows, its an idea, what do you think??
Click to expand...

You have been on here long enough to know how this thread will go. Here's a quick summary of it from many similar past threads about it.-

Don't know who the pros are, and don't care. They don't do a thing for me, and I'm not giving them a dime. Let them go get a job like everyone else does.
 
Neil said:
You have been on here long enough to know how this thread will go. Here's a quick summary of it from many similar past threads about it.-

Don't know who the pros are, and don't care. They don't do a thing for me, and I'm not giving them a dime. Let them go get a job like everyone else does.
Click to expand...
its good to see the support the game needs. thanks man:thumbup:
 
trinacria said:
its good to see the support the game needs. thanks man:thumbup:
Click to expand...

Just understand, that is not what I think. Just letting you know how it will most likely go on here. Been many threads about leagues adding a little money for a pro tour. Every one goes the same way.;)
 
trinacria said:
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
20 tables, 2 grand, simple math.
the money is solely used for the pro league. the money is used to promote the game and pay truly talented individuals. in the grand scheme of things, the money is not much. but it adds up. include sponsors, the game gains recognition bigger sponsors come.
if the game is respected, people will respect it.
leagues would become better, they should pay a fee too, it all adds up.
bonus ball was a valiant effort, nobody plays it, nobody follows it.
who knows, its an idea, what do you think??
Click to expand...

I think you should be in government. You've got all kinds of great ideas that other people should pay for. Tax the room owners, tax the leagues, tax anything related to pool.

But don't worry, the money will be spent by a "trustworthy governing body." Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
 
Neil said:
You have been on here long enough to know how this thread will go. Here's a quick summary of it from many similar past threads about it.-

Don't know who the pros are, and don't care. They don't do a thing for me, and I'm not giving them a dime. Let them go get a job like everyone else does.
Click to expand...

Reality...check.
 
trinacria said:
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
??
Click to expand...

Back in the day, before professional baseball players were making MEGA dollars, many of the players worked during the off season, but still managed to get some practice in, and such. Pool players should be no different if their playing is not supporting them.

But I'm guessing some room owner does NOT want to put money towards players they don't even know....they got bills to pay too.
 
trinacria said:
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
20 tables, 2 grand, simple math.
the money is solely used for the pro league. the money is used to promote the game and pay truly talented individuals. in the grand scheme of things, the money is not much. but it adds up. include sponsors, the game gains recognition bigger sponsors come.
if the game is respected, people will respect it.
leagues would become better, they should pay a fee too, it all adds up.
bonus ball was a valiant effort, nobody plays it, nobody follows it.
who knows, its an idea, what do you think??
Click to expand...

Your idea is not new. Mr. Baker of Tampa's famous Baker billiards tried to do the same thing back in the late 60's. Remember that back then there were pool rooms in like every city and 10 of thousands of tables in pool rooms across the US.

I his mind the people who really benefitted from pool was the room owners themselves and they should be the ones to promote it. He had the same idea for each room to pay based on so much per table, a national room owners association.

There really was no need for a large main sponsor since as a group they were far bigger then any sponsor. He wanted to run Big national tournaments with local qualifiers that room owners could directly benefit from. He had a plan for league play much like bowling where they were in house leagues and the rooms could benefit from them directly and instantly.

It was all down on paper and he traveled to many rooms trying to promote his idea as well as mail outs and calling. It went nowhere. In fact room owners are so short sited I have put on tournaments and had room owners not even want to put up a poster with the excuse,

"Why should I advertise someone else's room I want them here playing, not somewhere else watching a tournament". Do they actually think their customers have never been to another room? They would come back after the tournament hyped up wanting to play even more.

Room owners are by far as a group the most powerful entity in the industry and they don't seem to even know it. I have a feeling organizing them would be like herding cats.
 
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Okay...let's say I'm a pool room owner with 20 tables...WHO do I pay my $2k to? What do I get for that? Who is acccountable for the expeditures of that money, who determines who the pros are, etc.? The only way a viable career in pool ever happens for a pro is for a tour to get established that gets recognized universally as THE tour, with a governing body that is universally recognized for rules/sanctioning/tour cards, etc. Kind of the way the PGA got going. Organic and market driven, with the cream then able to rise to the top. Hasn't happened yet, the best opportunities thus far were either mismanaged, squandered or pillaged by the respective tour directors.

Any sustainable pro tour would have to force touring pros to earn their cards each year, with open slots available for top amateurs to earn their way in. Kind of like the farm team system in pro baseball, or the relegation system in FIFA (soccer). Say there's 200 pros on the "tour"...the bottom 50 finishers are "relegated" (lose their tour cards), replaced by top amatuers from various sanctioned pro/am regional tours and points earners from big open events. In that scenario, you could see room owners and regional tour directors and league operators kicking in to keep in the system, keeping their events on the sanctioned list and affording their players opportunities to go pro.

CSI might be the organization to get something like this going, especially if their invitationals get big traction...there would be a natural amateur/professional nexus that could lay a foundation.
 
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The problem is determining reputable.

It seems that very few people that have tried to do something in the billiards industry have been reputable and that is professional billiards biggest problem.

It would be nice if something like this COULD be put together.

There are definitely some issues with that. How do you determine what is the valid $amount for a given pool room.

I can see a flat fee for being a room that is a member and starting out really small and building up from there.

I think billiards biggest problem has been the desire to be huge without building up to it.

Thinking you're gonna have people interested in watching on TV without building up personal interest first is ridiculous.

All tv sports had butts in seats watching long before TV was ever involved.

billiards promoters should be trying to get butts in seats before TV is even considered.

TV producers should be coming to billiards, before it is viable, not the other way around.

The trick is to figure out how to generate league player interest in professional pool and professional level pool.

Until that nut is cracked I don't think there is any hope in making pro pool as big as it should be.

Do I have the answer as to how to do that?? Probably not, as of right now.

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
The trick is to figure out how to generate league player interest in professional pool and professional level pool.

Until that nut is cracked I don't think there is any hope in making pro pool as big as it should be.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see pros make a good living as much as the next guy. But setting that as your goal won't do anything for the pool industry or pool rooms -- it's putting the cart before the horse.

Jaden is right that it would be ideal to generate interest in pro pool among amateurs. But a far more important objective is to have many more amateurs.
 
bdorman said:
I think you should be in government. You've got all kinds of great ideas that other people should pay for. Tax the room owners, tax the leagues, tax anything related to pool.

But don't worry, the money will be spent by a "trustworthy governing body." Yeah, right. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

Spot on! A liberal is one who feels great compassion for his fellow man. Compassion to be paid for with the money of others.

I really don't mind helping someone who can't work, but I don't like paying for people who won't work.
Click to expand...
 
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Great... Another shakedown tax to pay, simply for having the luxury of having a business. I'll go get that right away off the money tree we have growing in the back room.. :rolleyes:

Im assuming this well thought out idea is a mandatory kinda deal, correct?

What happens if someone refuses to pay (like I would)?

Are they then not ALLOWED to put pool tables in their business (Hall, club, bar, etc...)? Or have to get rid of them if they already do have tables?

If this is voluntary, how many halls, or better yet, what percentage of places with tables do you expect to actually pony up? My guess would be in the (very) low single digits, if any at all... :speechless:
 
As soon as I read your ashamed to be a pool player I stopped reading ... go play golf golf if your so ashamed.
 
trinacria said:
pool rooms should register with a trustworthy governing body. one, not the schizophrenic state of tournaments its in now, don't get me wrong, i support them, they re great for the most part, but pool should be an accomplishment not a shameful hobby which im sometimes made to feel like.
$100 per table. you own a room with 10 tables, $1000.
20 tables, 2 grand, simple math.
the money is solely used for the pro league. the money is used to promote the game and pay truly talented individuals. in the grand scheme of things, the money is not much. but it adds up. include sponsors, the game gains recognition bigger sponsors come.
if the game is respected, people will respect it.
leagues would become better, they should pay a fee too, it all adds up.
bonus ball was a valiant effort, nobody plays it, nobody follows it.
who knows, its an idea, what do you think??
Click to expand...

Feel free to start this up yourself.
 
It wouldn't be a SHAKE down tax...lol

Rain-Man said:
Great... Another shakedown tax to pay, simply for having the luxury of having a business. I'll go get that right away off the money tree we have growing in the back room.. :rolleyes:

Im assuming this well thought out idea is a mandatory kinda deal, correct?

What happens if someone refuses to pay (like I would)?

Are they then not ALLOWED to put pool tables in their business (Hall, club, bar, etc...)? Or have to get rid of them if they already do have tables?

If this is voluntary, how many halls, or better yet, what percentage of places with tables do you expect to actually pony up? My guess would be in the (very) low single digits, if any at all... :speechless:
Click to expand...

As a business owner you have to look at the big picture.

I'm the IT director of a Car dealership group. If say, there weren't very many people driving cars and a group came around and said, look we're starting up an organization that will help to promote car driving so more people will buy and drive cars and we're looking for member dealerships to join.

It would be in the best interest for many car dealerships to join and pay some small dues because then it would help to create more drivers that would buy more cars.

The organization would then promote those membership car dealerships and the people that they reach will be more likely to not only buy cars, but to buy them from the member dealerships.

So no it isn't a shake down tax, it's a business advertisement expense, fully able to be written off as such.

Jaden
 
Jaden said:
As a business owner you have to look at the big picture.

I'm the IT director of a Car dealership group. If say, there weren't very many people driving cars and a group came around and said, look we're starting up an organization that will help to promote car driving so more people will buy and drive cars and we're looking for member dealerships to join.

It would be in the best interest for many car dealerships to join and pay some small dues because then it would help to create more drivers that would buy more cars.

The organization would then promote those membership car dealerships and the people that they reach will be more likely to not only buy cars, but to buy them from the member dealerships.

So no it isn't a shake down tax, it's a business advertisement expense, fully able to be written off as such.

Jaden
Click to expand...
Ah yes, well, now lets discuss the trust that I need to place in the governing body. Surely you're joking. You bring this up as if there's no precedent to look back upon.

Nationwide marketing costs big bucks. Unfortunately, your idea needs to be implemented by someone with those big bucks to spend, but is also willing to get virtually nothing in return. Let's face it, what does this organizing body really get from this if they actually use the funds for the greater good? Remember, that organizing body is nothing more than the people who operate it. In this case, probably quite few.

So you need someone with tons of cash for marketing, willing to volunteer their time. :rolleyes:

Imo, the most successful such venture that's organized and nationwide would be the Valley leagues. Unfortunately, those leagues are almost all in bars and don't cater to the younger player who needs exposed to the game. Great idea, wrong demographic. And, they too have difficulty in getting players even with the handicap system they use. If you ask me, the difficulty with leagues is it becomes recreation on a schedule. Now that recreation feels a little like a job. And any honest person here will admit to the fact that it can sometimes make scheduling the rest of your life a pita.

I'd say a better idea is to wait until the big events that already exist are overflowing and turning away players. Let the promoters of those events set the tone for smaller ones. A well organized event is a great barometer for how the industry is really going. The way for that to happen is to get the players to do the legwork and get others involved in playing. Not an easy thing to do. But, that's the group that needs to step up and help bring more shooters to the game. I know I've brought at least half a dozen players to the game. Most don't play any more, but if each of them did the same, you get the idea. And, why don't people do that? Well, because there's no benefit to them for doing it. Just like there's no benefit for a room owner to pay your tax. You need a special type of person willing to do something for the game, for nothing.
 
Bug

A trade organization is not a new concept. Pool seems to be lacking any.
some examples, large and some small.



Accounting
National Association of Tax Professionals
The Association of Chartered Accountants in the U.S.

Advertising
Advertising Specialty Institute
Promotional Products Association International

Agriculture
American Farm Bureau
Ecological Farming Association
Home Wine & Beer Trade Association
Napa Valley Home Winemakers Association
Northeast Organic Farming Association
Ohio Wine Producers Association
Oklahoma Association of Wine Producers
Wine Institute

Animals
American Boarding Kennels Association
American Dog Trainers Network
American Miniature Llama Association
American Pet Association
American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior
Association of Pet Dog Trainers
International Association of Pet Cemeteries
International Professional Groomers
International Society of Canine Cosmetologists
Missouri Pet Breeders Association
National Animal Control Association
National Association of Professional Petsitters
National Dog Groomers Association of America
Pet Behaviorist
Petsitters International
Professional Dog Walkers Association
Professional Mobile Groomers International
Seminole Dog Fanciers Association
The Cat Fanciers' Association
The Humane Society of the United States
The Independent Pet & Animal Transportation Association
World Wide Pet Supply Association

Architecture
American Architectural Foundation
Association for Women in Architecture
Association of Licensed Architects

Arts/Crafts
American Art Pottery Association
American Art Therapy Association
American Association of Museums
American Dance Therapy Association
American Federation of Musicians
American Institute of Graphic Arts
American Music Therapy Association
Association for the Calligraphic Arts
Association of American Editorial Cartoonists
Association of Crafts and Creative Industries
Association of Restorers
Association of Talent Agents
Canadian Federation of Music Teachers Associations
Contemporary Ceramic Studios Association
Council of Writers Organizations
Forensic Artist Information
Graphic Artists Guild
Institute of Inspection Cleaning & Restoration Ceritfication
International Interior Design Association (IIDA)
Jewelry Design Professional Network
Manufacturing Jewelers and Suppliers of America
Music Teachers National Association
National Art Education Association
National Association of Independent Artists
National Association for Music Education
National Candle Association
National Cartoonists Society
National Dance Teachers Association
National Writers Association
National Writers Union
Printing Industries of America
Professional Photographers of America
Professional Picture Framers Association
Society for Environmental Graphic Design
The Furniture Society
The Greeting Card Association
The International Association for Identificaion
The Society of Illustrators

Automotive
American International Automobile Dealers Association
American Trucking Associations
Autobody Craftsman Association
Automotive Service Association
International Carwash Association
International Carwash Association
National Association of Professional Accident Reconstruction
National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence
National Limousine Association
National Parking Association
Nat'l Autobody Council
Towing and Recovery Association of America

Business Services
American Association of Advertising Agencies
American Staffing Association
Associated Landscape Contractors of America
Association of Credit and Collection Professionals
Association of Executive Search Consultants
Association of Image Consultants International
Association of Relocation Agents
Building Owner & Managers Association
Council for Marketing & Opinion Research
Editorial Freelancers Association
Embroidery Trade Association
Institute of Fundraising
International Association of Speakers Bureaus
International Franchise Association
International Association of Administrative Professionals
International Association of Professional Security Consultants
International Business Brokers Association
International Executive Housekeepers Association, Inc.
International Coach Federation
Mailing & Fulfillment Service Association
Management Consulting Association Worldwide
Messenger Courier Association of the Americas
National Association of Mortgage Brokers
National Association of Record Industry Professionals
National Auctioneers Association
National Automatic Merchandising Association
National Council of Investigation & Security Serivices
National Human Resources Association
National Secretarial Association
National Workforce Center for Emerging Technologies
Nat'l Assoc of Professional Organizers
Nat'l Assoc. of Professional Cleaners
North American Simulation & Gaming Association
Public Relations Society of America
Self Storage Association
Society for Human Resource Management
Society for Technical Communication
Society of Cost Estimating and Analysis
The National Organizers Alliance
The Quality Association Anti-Graffiti
The Trade Association of the Data Storage Industry
Trade Show Exhibitors Association
Worldwide Association of Business Coaches

Children
Center for the Child Care Workforce
Doulas of North America
Juvenile Products Manufacturers Association

Construction
American Welding Society
Association of Construction Inspectors
Construction Management Association of America
Deck Industry Association
National Association of Home Builders
National Association of the Remodeling Industry
Painting & Decorating Contractors of America
United Brotherhood of Carpenters and Joiners of America

Engineering/Mechanical
International Society of Certified Electronics Technicians

Entertainment
Actors Equity Association
Association of Talent Agents
American Disc Jockey Association
Circus Friends Association
Dance Educators of America
Domestic Placement Network
Game Manufacturers Association
International Association for the Leisure & Entertainment Industry
International Festival and Event Association
National Association of Broadcasters
National Association of Mobile Entertainers
National Dance Council of America
National Fireworks Association
The Society of American Magicians
The United Stuntmen's Association
United Stuntwomen's Association
World Clown Association

Environment
Environment Technology Council
National Onsite Wastewater Recycling Association

Fashion
Apparel Manufacturers Association
Association of Image Consultants International
Custom Tailors & Designers Association of America
National Cosmetology Association

Financial
American Payroll Association
Association of Credit and Collection Professionals
Independent Insurance Agents of America
International Claim Association
National Association of Government Guaranteed Lenders
National Association of Stockbrokers
The American Institute of Professional Bookkeepers
The Financial Planning Association

Food
American Bakers Association
American Personal Chef Association
Internaional Cake Exploration Societé
National Association of Catering Executives
United Food & Commercial Workers International Union

Health Care
American Association of Home Care
American Association of Oriental Medicine
American Association of Sex Educators, Counselors & Therapists
American Dental Hygienists' Association
American Medical Billing Association
American Psychological Association
Human Factors and Ergonomics Society
International Association of Medical Equipment Remarketers
International Chiropractors Association
National Association of Alternative Medicines
National Association of Home Care
The Association of Medical Illustrators

Home Services
Air Conditioning Contractors of America
American Moving & Storage Association
American Nursery & Landscape Association
American Society for Interior Designers
American Society of Landscape Architects
American Society of Plumbing Engineers
Associated Landscape Contractors of America
Association of Construction Inspectors
Certified Interior Decorators International
Institutional Locksmith Association
Interior Design Society
Interior Designers of Canada
International Executive Housekeepers Association
International Society of Certified Electronics Technicians
International Window Cleaning Association
Master Painters & Decorators Association
National Association of Professional Organizers
National Association of the Remodeling Industry
National Chimney Sweep Guild
National Council of Interior Design Qualifications
National Parking Association
National Pest Management Association
National Roofing Contractors Association
National Spa & Pool Institute
Plumbing & Drainage Institute
Professional Carpet & Upholstery Cleaners Association
Snow & Ice Management Association
Washington Refuse & Recycling Association

Hospitality
American Bartenders' Association
American Hotel & Lodging Association
American Sightseeing International
Brewers' Association of America
Council of Hotel & Restaurant Trainers
National Restaurant Association
The Association of Club Executives

Legal
American Arbitration Association

Healthcare Financial Management Services
National Association of Legal Investigators
National Court Reporters Association
National Notary Association
National Paralegal Association
National Verbatim Reporters Association
United States Court Reporters Association

Media, Communications
Digital Printing & Imaging Association
Association of American Publishers
Association of Telecom Management Professionals
Editorial Freelancers Association
International Production Crew Resource for Film, Video & Mutimedia Professionals
International Freelance Photographers Organization
National Association of Photoshop Professionals
National Press Photographers Association
Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf
Wedding & Event Videographers Association International

Medical
Insurance Institute of America

Non-Profit
Center for Non-Profit Corporations

Personal Services
American Association of Wedding Planners
American Bartenders' Association
American Counseling Association
American Credit Union Mortgage Association
American Massage Therapy Association
American Physical Therapy Association
American Speech-Language-Hearing Association
American Tarot Association
Coin Laundry Association
Color Association of the United States
Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs
Custom Tailors & Designers Association of America
Empire State Association of Adult Homes & Assisted Lving Facilities
Intellectual Property Owners Association
Internet Dating Executive Alliance
Meeting Professionals International
National Accrediting Commission of Cosmetology Arts and Sciences
National Association for Home Care
National Association of Professional Organizers
National Cosmetology Association
National Employment Counseling Association
National Funeral Directors Association
National Resume Writers Association
National Strength and Conditioning Association
National Therapeutic Recreation Society
National Tutoring Association
Professional Association of Resume Writers
Professional Body Guard Association
Professional Resume Writing and Research Association
Self Storage Association
Textile Care Allied Trades Association
The American Dietetic Association

Real Estate
American Association of Certified Appraisers
American Nursery & Landscape Association
Building Owner & Managers Association
National Association of Realtors

Recreation
Amercian Sports Association
American Council on Exercise
National Bicycle Dealers Association
Washington Trails Association

Retail
American Beverage Licensees
American Wholesale Marketers Association
National Association of Resale & Thrift Shops
National Association of Visual Merchandisers
National Parking Association
National Pawnbrokers Association
National Propane Gas Association
Retail, Wholesale & Department Store Union
Society of American Florists
The National Art & Antique Dealers' Association of America

Sales
American Teleservices Association

Technology
Association of Independent Information Professionals
Association of Internet Professionals
Association of Shareware Professionals
IEEE Computer Society
Internaional Webmasters Association
National Association of Photoshop Professionals
National Association of Software & Service Companies
National Workforce Center for Emerging Technologies

Travel
National Tour Association
The American Society of Travel Agents

Wholesale Trade
American Purchasing Society

Writing
American Copy Editors Society
Editorial Freelancers Association
Society for Technical Communication
 
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