Billy Incardona - Short Rant

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't think Mr. Incardona meant anything disrepectful to the foreign players but that doesn't mean what he slipped up and said couldn't be viewed as offensive.

Also mentioning his track record and knowing his history doesn't do any good for the people that don't already know it.

If the pool community wants to be respected and have any sort of interity then it needs to bring some sort of professionalism along with it, and this instance along with all of its defenders is yet another reason why no one can take it seriously.

Being an announcer/commentator is a job. If you're not up to the 8 or 9 hour task then don't moan and groan about it. Take it seriously and allow yourself the 2 minutes it takes to learn a few one syllable names. Leave the comedy to the comedians and please spare us all your life stories and quit tying to one-up the other commentator by guessing what shot the player will choose next.

You never hear snooker commentators making corny jokes or talking about what they ate or burping and making fun of other players names. Maybe that's one of the reasons snooker is held in such high regard in Europe, because it's taken seriously.

I bet a lot more people on here would be a lot more butt hurt if they were watching the US players play in Japan while the foreign commentators were the ones making fun of our American names. "Great safe by Shane Van Booger" or "Nice shot Girl Strickland". That stuff might sound funny to a middle school kid or whatever but if I'm somewhere playing and you make fun of my last name like it's a joke then I'll have something to say about it.


I gotta agree with most of what you've said here.

Pool will always stay small time if most of its enthusiasts are willing to accept anything less than professionalism in their sport. Sure it's just a few folks watching but it is going worldwide. So no offense was meant but I doubt mocking an Asian player's name is going to go so well in the Asian markets where, I would think, all of the stream sponsors are wishing to sell product.

Times change and what was acceptable 10 years ago in life, the media, or locker room may not be so anymore. And we've all become more media savy. Nowadays there are seven year old kids putting out near broadcast quality video on YouTube. The bar has been raised regardless of what the commentators are being paid.

Which brings me to this: as most here know I played a streamed match a few months back. I am told that at one point the stream approached 800 viewers. There were two commentators in the booth for that match, Jamison Neu and Freddy Agnir. Jamison knows me from Missouri, but Freddy not so much, though our paths frequently cross on the groups. I doubt either guy was getting paid and were probably just doing it to be part of the show. But before the match Freddy did something that impressed me -- he came up to me and asked me a series of questions about what I'd been doing lately pool-wise, what some of my accomplishments were, and a little bit about my background. I knew exactly what he was doing: gathering a little intel so he could do a professional job as a commentator in the booth.

We could all use a little bit more of that.

Lou Figueroa
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
"Who cares what was said on the cuff?" Maybe the 1.25 billion Chinese people in China not to mention the others around the world. There are good male and female players from China and I would think their fans would be offended by commentators referring to Chinese players as "Ping-Pong". Maybe "pool" doesn't need 1.25 billion more fans of the game but I would think the producers of PPV livestreams would love a few thousand more viewers.

This is much to do about nothing, except to a handful on this forum. This is a discussion forum, where would you expect it to be discussed? It's not exactly fodder for the New York Times.

How much were any of the "announcers" being compensated anyway?I don't know the compensation for the commentators on this particular stream but the AccuStats commentators get $100 per match.

The only thing keeping this thread going are people like yourself who are defending what was said and insulting the people who voice opposite opinions from you.

ONB

A couple things:

1. "Maybe the 1.25 billion Chinese people in China not to mention the others around the world" (related to who'd be offended by off-color/off-the-cuff comments). So, do we need the Old White Man Society(TM), with their newfound racial tolerance, to be the Defenders of Races Around the World, because those races supposedly can't speak up for themselves? Don't we have enough of the American World Police(TM) meddling in the world as it is? Or, are we hiding behind the "See? See? See? We're showing compassion and concern!" facade, to escape past wrongs?

2. Yup, this is definitely a discussion forum, and BOTH sides need to be aware that their stance is going to get attacked. The "people like yourself who are defending what was said and insulting the people who voice opposite opinions from you" thing is a moot issue, because BOTH sides are doing it.

3. The most important point of all, is this thread was started, and maintained (with the bashing of Billy I., anyway) by the "I Sounded The First Alarm!" sensationalist types, who are the binocular-equipped lookouts for the Old White Man Society. This is a garbage thread that should be closed post-haste. Otherwise, we'll surely see Godwin's Law being invoked, which means the ultimate brick-wall of the thread has been reached.

Billy offered his apology, and even a follow-on explanation. Billy realizes that what he did was not exactly professional, and I'm good with that.

But the OWMS(TM) and their lookouts keep harping on, as if they want something else (more severe) done. I hear that firewood being stacked by the stake...

-Sean
 
A couple things:

1. "Maybe the 1.25 billion Chinese people in China not to mention the others around the world" (related to who'd be offended by off-color/off-the-cuff comments). So, do we need the Old White Man Society(TM), with their newfound racial tolerance, to be the Defenders of Races Around the World, because those races supposedly can't speak up for themselves? Don't we have enough of the American World Police(TM) meddling in the world as it is? Or, are we hiding behind the "See? See? See? We're showing compassion and concern!" facade, to escape past wrongs?

2. Yup, this is definitely a discussion forum, and BOTH sides need to be aware that their stance is going to get attacked. The "people like yourself who are defending what was said and insulting the people who voice opposite opinions from you" thing is a moot issue, because BOTH sides are doing it.

3. The most important point of all, is this thread was started, and maintained (with the bashing of Billy I., anyway) by the "I Sounded The First Alarm!" sensationalist types, who are the binocular-equipped lookouts for the Old White Man Society. This is a garbage thread that should be closed post-haste. Otherwise, we'll surely see Godwin's Law being invoked, which means the ultimate brick-wall of the thread has been reached.

Billy offered his apology, and even a follow-on explanation. Billy realizes that what he did was not exactly professional, and I'm good with that.

But the OWMS(TM) and their lookouts keep harping on, as if they want something else (more severe) done. I hear that firewood being stacked by the stake...

-Sean

Wow, you are really a very intelligent person. You have convinced me, with your brilliant post that I am 100% wrong. I take back everything I wrote in this thread. Sorry for the bother.

ONB
 

HereWeGo

♬·¯·♩¸¸♪·¯·♫♬·¯·♩
Silver Member
Thank you for your response and contributions over the years. I would just like to say that my rant was not driven by race. I in no way think that the comment was a racial slur. My rant was about respect and professionalism and was driven by the understanding that one of the reasons that Mark and Team CSI went to this format was to be able to invite players that treated the game and it's competitors with respect. I just had the expectation that everyone else involved would have that same respect for the players. Thank you again for you explanation and I look forward to future commentaries as I do enjoy the stories and history you bring to the table.

I'm going to keep this real and apologize before hand in the event that I hurt some ones feelings.

Did I say something stupid when I referred to Pin as Ping and then without thinking added pong..yes.

Did I intentionally make that statement knowing it was bordering what some would misinterpret as a racial comment..Absolutely not.

Am I sorry that I made that comment..yes I am
, however, in no way was it directed as a racial slur and those who know me, and my track record as not only a commentator but also as a human being knows that I would never say that with under


tones of such.

I would like to apologize to first, any one that felt that what I said was one of a racist. I also would like to apologize to Mark Griffin and Justin Collet, two people that I hold in the highest regard for who they are and for what they stand for and accomplished. I would also like to add that I really appreciate all the people that supported me and their understanding on this highly controversial subject.
For what it's worth, I in no way am upset or angry with the people that accused me of making a racial comment, however, maybe a little dissapointed that they would imply that because if they truly knew me or my history they would know that that's not me. Sorta falls under the same line of thinking that all commenttors should know importnt facts about the players that are playing
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Wow, you are really a very intelligent person. You have convinced me, with your brilliant post that I am 100% wrong. I take back everything I wrote in this thread. Sorry for the bother.

ONB

Well for the record you had 3 points in the post in question... So I'll handle 33.3% and he can handle the rest.... 3rd point..... Accu-Stats pays $100 per match.... Nope...

Pat used to occasionally come out of pocket for guest commentators but for the last few years the commentators are part of the crew and as such they get paid for the event...

We still use guests when they want to be in the booth but it's pro-bono and we try pretty hard to get great guests...

Piggy Banks, and Freddy (man we are gonna miss him), Jay Helfert, Jerry Forsythe.. Jeanette Lee.. Ewa Lawrence.... Lee Brett was great in the booth with Jim Wych.. Would like for that to happen again this year at the US Open...... I apologize for missing people and I know I am......

A big shout out to the pros who will sit in and lend their voices to the broadcasts like John Schmidt, Scott Frost, Thorsten Hohmann, Ralf Eckert, Corey Deuel. Darren Appleton, John B. And I am sure there are a bunch of others I am leaving off that list....


But the biggest and best guest we get is Billy Incardona... He always comes into the booth when he is at an event and gives it his 100%... Even thru the back problems which have gotten a little better he would crawl into the booth and sit thru as many matches as he could handle...

My favorite team is Billy and Danny these days.. I loved Billy and Grady(another legend gone and missed) and to tell you the truth Scott Frost and Billy do a great job with the back and forth interaction between them...

All of the commentators I know do it for the love of the game...

Our paid commentators would do it for free if they could afford to... If you have never worked a full day in production at an event you likely have no idea how long those days are and how hard it is to be on point in the booth, in the control room or behind a camera....

Right now no-one is doing it for the money.. What little money there is is about survival... For the streamers, for the crews, for the last bastion of viewing pro pool in this country live from the comfort of your own home....


You say better commentators = more viewers... I say TAR and Accu-Stats gets the best we can get on the planet at this particular moment..

As you can see with this thread it can be a pretty thankless job... And it's not gonna pay much more than your travel, room and board.....

Chris
 

shinobi

kanadajindayo
Silver Member
One time in 1986 I was sent up to Toronto by CBS to do a film. The guy that met me at the airport to greet me and set me up in my digs was a local French Canadian. When he told me his name was Camille. I reacted and said. "Camille, isn't that a girls name"?

He looked at me and held his tongue. I realized I just stepped in it.
The next day when I came back I learned that Camille had quit and wouldn't work with me anymore. I Iearned that it is not uncommon a name in his culture.
I felt so remorseful. I then realized what an idiot move I made. Just six words that happened to slip out of my mouth. I started thinking how many times people made light of my name and didn't realize that it is quite common in the Hawaiian culture.
In short I made a fool out of myself.

I hope Camille and anyone I offended could forgive me. I never had the chance to apologize. That is the worse feeling.

Keone Young
Mr Wu

Sure it was a misstep. But, if that was enough for the guy to quit working with you he sounds way too uptight. Probably a good thing you weren't working with him :p
 
Well for the record you had 3 points in the post in question... So I'll handle 33.3% and he can handle the rest.... 3rd point..... Accu-Stats pays $100 per match.... Nope...
Chris

Maybe you should just let the person who "quoted" me and responded to me and who I "quoted" in return respond to me.

As of a couple of years ago AccuStats paid $100 per man, per match for commentary. If it's changed since then then I stand corrected. This I know for a fact.

ONB
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Maybe you should just let the person who "quoted" me and responded to me and who I "quoted" in return respond to me.

As of a couple of years ago AccuStats paid $100 per man, per match for commentary. If it's changed since then then I stand corrected. This I know for a fact.

ONB

I have worked for Pat for the last 5 years in the control booth... Your facts are just outdated a few years... I actually think 5 years ago you would have been right but they added another commentator to the crew because there was no guarantees that for a given match someone would be available... I just didn't want a guest to wonder why they didn't get paid if that was the going rate... We will get back to the regularly scheduled quotations now.... ;)

Chris
 
I have worked for Pat for the last 5 years in the control booth... Your facts are just outdated a few years... I actually think 5 years ago you would have been right but they added another commentator to the crew because there was no guarantees that for a given match someone would be available... I just didn't want a guest to wonder why they didn't get paid if that was the going rate... We will get back to the regularly scheduled quotations now.... ;)

Chris

My facts are less than 2 years old. Why don't you ask Pat before you go posting incorrect info here? Like I said, I know for a fact.

ONB
 

Poolplaya9

Tellin' it like it is...
Silver Member
Keone:

Thank you so much for lending your viewpoint to this [stupid] thread, and putting an authoritative "voice" (if you will) on how it's perceived from someone that "could" be offended if he wanted to, but isn't.

Notice, btw, that the only folks playing the race card and charging into battle with the political-correctness guidon, are WHITE PEOPLE. That should tell you something.

Is there a some secret feature on AzBilliards that I am unaware of? Because I don't have a clue what color the posters are, nor do I know of any way to find out (besides asking them). It might be interesting info to know. How were you able to tell they were all white?
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
My facts are less than 2 years old. Why don't you ask Pat before you go posting incorrect info here? Like I said, I know for a fact.

ONB

Hahah did you get paid or someone said they got paid? I know the info first hand.. Not 2nd hand....

I won't say he didn't pay someone $100 2 years ago as a guest but I know the budget doesn't pay commentators $100 each for each match like you are stating... SO it would have been the exception not the rule....

Jay Helfert can tell you 100% that we do not pay anymore because we cannot afford it on the budget we have with the extra crew member... One of the things I do is help get guests in the booth and my answer has been for the last few years that it doesn't pay anything when asked...

Jay being the guy he is said you know what I don't give a f about the money and has done a bunch of matches in his efforts to add to the quality of the production and in a giving back to the sport....
 

Tobermory

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I did not hear the broadcast in question, and so I address only the quality of Billy Incardona' s commentary in general.

Over the years, I have learned a huge amount from Billy's comments. When I buy an Accu-Stats video, it is always a giant plus in my mind if Billy did the commentary. I am not aware that there has been any falling off in quality in recent years.

As for his grammar, it is nearly impeccable. In fact, on rare occasion he will stumble into an error under the rules of standard English grammar but then quickly correct himself.

A few times I have been near Billy when he was speaking with others away from the boadcasting booth. On several occasions I have found him quite informative about pool issues in that context, even during "woofing."

As for talking about food and what kind of sandwiches he likes, sometimes a speaker must "leaven the loaf."
 

Pfnatic

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I did not hear the broadcast in question, and so I address only the quality of Billy Incardona' s commentary in general.

Over the years, I have learned a huge amount from Billy's comments. When I buy an Accu-Stats video, it is always a giant plus in my mind if Billy did the commentary. I am not aware that there has been any falling off in quality in recent years.

As for his grammar, it is nearly impeccable. In fact, on rare occasion he will stumble into an error under the rules of standard English grammar but then quickly correct himself.

A few times I have been near Billy when he was speaking with others away from the boadcasting booth. On several occasions I have found him quite informative about pool issues in that context, even during "woofing."

As for talking about food and what kind of sandwiches he likes, sometimes a speaker must "leaven the loaf."

I love Billy's commentary. He just misspoke and I am sure he regrets it. Nevertheless, Billy and Cotton make a great commentating pair. It's much better than having to listen to Ken Shuman's excruciating play by play. I am sure he is a good guy, but it's like open heart surgery listening to Ken predict every single shot for the entire length of the match. Just end up hitting the mute button when Kenny is in the booth.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Billy Incardona is one of pool's elite commentators. He does, at times, struggle with names.

Billy made a minor error here and it needs to be shrugged off. Reading great impropriety into Billy's error is, at least to me, absolutely ridiculous.

We are very lucky to be able to listen to Billy's exceptional commentary and should be tolerant of the fact that he makes an occasional error.

Americans are not completely at ease with many of the Asian names, but we do our best. I recall once referring to former Taiwanese superstar Fong Pang Chao as Pong Fang Chao. My inaccurate use of the word "Pong" was an honest mistake. It happens.

Time to move on.
 

itsfroze

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Billy Incardona is one of pool's elite commentators. He does, at times, struggle with names.

Billy made a minor error here and it needs to be shrugged off. Reading great impropriety into Billy's error is, at least to me, absolutely ridiculous.

We are very lucky to be able to listen to Billy's exceptional commentary and should be tolerant of the fact that he makes an occasional error.

Americans are not completely at ease with many of the Asian names, but we do our best. I recall once referring to former Taiwanese superstar Fong Pang Chao as Pong Fang Chao. My inaccurate use of the word "Pong" was an honest mistake. It happens.

Time to move on.

Yes but what accounts for your inaccurate use of the word Fang ? :eek: LOL


All kidding aside they are hard for me too, especially since many times
the same three part name will be listed in different orders. So we basically
don't even get a chance to get used to seeing the name in the correct order
over and over which makes it twice as hard.
 
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wincardona

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Billy Incardona is one of pool's elite commentators. He does, at times, struggle with names.

Billy made a minor error here and it needs to be shrugged off. Reading great impropriety into Billy's error is, at least to me, absolutely ridiculous.

We are very lucky to be able to listen to Billy's exceptional commentary and should be tolerant of the fact that he makes an occasional error.

Americans are not completely at ease with many of the Asian names, but we do our best. I recall once referring to former Taiwanese superstar Fong Pang Chao as Pong Fang Chao. My inaccurate use of the word "Pong" was an honest mistake. It happens.

Time to move on.

I enjoyed visiting with you Mr. P;)
 

dabarbr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I enjoyed visiting with you Mr. P;)

Billy, I can't believe this thread was even started. I didn't read most of it but I'm surprised it got so much play. Anyone that remotely knows you or knows about you would feel that your apology was unnecessary but appreciated. I personally want to thank you for everything that you've done and do for the pool world.

Everything I've ever heard or read from you was done with class and dignity. Thanks again for what you do for us. Your friend...The Barber
 
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