Efren foul call - Was Ref correct?

iusedtoberich said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8Y1SBzCd4#t=1283

Was this shot a foul? Timestamp is 21:23 if the link does not take you directly there. I think it was a good hit by where the CB went but I'm not certain.
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Personally, I think the cue-ball's path suggests it was a foul. That said, it's really hard to tell given the quality of the video. I could imagine a scenario where that might be a good hit but hard to say.
 
iusedtoberich said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8Y1SBzCd4#t=1283

Was this shot a foul? Timestamp is 21:23 if the link does not take you directly there. I think it was a good hit by where the CB went but I'm not certain.
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Tough call.

But with the aid of youtube and multiple replays, I would have to say that it was NOT a foul. I base my opinion predominantly on the path and speed of the 5 ball. If Efren did hit the 5 first, then it looks like he cut the 5 at >90 degrees. Assuming that Efren wanted to pocket the 5 in the corner, it's pretty tough to overcut the shot by that amount, and especially at the speed at which the 5 traveled.

The other reason I think it was not a foul is because Efren didn't think so.

But man, I certainly don't blame the ref for getting that one wrong.
 
jsp said:
Tough call.

But with the aid of youtube and multiple replays, I would have to say that it was NOT a foul. I base my opinion predominantly on the path and speed of the 5 ball. If Efren did hit the 5 first, then it looks like he cut the 5 at >90 degrees. Assuming that Efren wanted to pocket the 5 in the corner, it's pretty tough to overcut the shot by that amount, and especially at the speed at which the 5 traveled.

The other reason I think it was not a foul is because Efren didn't think so.

But man, I certainly don't blame the ref for getting that one wrong.
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Yes, now that you mention this, I fully agree. The path the 5 took was greater than 90 deg, and he barely hit the CB speed wise to get the 5 anywhere near the pocket if the 5 was hit first. Good observation.
 
Foul or not we need to accept the decision the ref makes on a call and not belittle the ref after that.
 
takeitdown said:
Good hit all day. The cue ball moves straight to end rail off side of 5.
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Correct.

If the CB hit the 3 last, then the CB would have to initially travel on the tangent line of the 3 ball before the forward roll took over. But you don't see a hint of curve/deviation in the CB path after contact(s).
 
dabarbr said:
Foul or not we need to accept the decision the ref makes on a call and not belittle the ref after that.
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No one is belittling the ref. If anything, I admire that he made a call immediately and authoritatively, even though he got it wrong.
 
I agree with takeitdown; good hit based on the action of the cueball


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jsp said:
No one is belittling the ref. If anything, I admire that he made a call immediately and authoritatively, even though he got it wrong.
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Agree. I just wanted to know if it was good or bad:) This match was almost 30 yrs ago!
 
jsp said:
No one is belittling the ref. If anything, I admire that he made a call immediately and authoritatively, even though he got it wrong.
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Keith saying that he'll take it even though he thought it was a good hit is not showing respect for the ref's call. Best is just to take it and don't say anything.
 
dabarbr said:
Keith saying that he'll take it even though he thought it was a good hit is not showing respect for the ref's call. Best is just to take it and don't say anything.
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Is it important to respect a ref's call if it is wrong? I'm not so sure it is :D

It's very useful to have instant video replay available to the ref for such an occasion.

Does anyone remember the World Pool Championship where Bustamante fouled on a shot that combo'd in the 9-ball for a win? Video replay was used there. Even with it, there was a lot of contention and drama, though I feel the correct call was made.
 
Jdale said:
Based on the where the 5 ball hit the side rail IMHO it was definitely a good hit.
Listing to Keith he also thought so.

dale
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I have watched this over 20 times now .. And I will officially do the flip flop, I now think the hit was good, but man that is very close.

I also agree a great job by the ref regardless if he called it good or foul. He has a split second to make that call and he did it with authority.
 
shinobi said:
Is it important to respect a ref's call if it is wrong? I'm not so sure it is :D

It's very useful to have instant video replay available to the ref for such an occasion.

Does anyone remember the World Pool Championship where Bustamante fouled on a shot that combo'd in the 9-ball for a win? Video replay was used there. Even with it, there was a lot of contention and drama, though I feel the correct call was made.
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The ref is human. All he can do is make the best call he can with the information he has available. They will never be right all the time, but a quick decisive call keeps control of the match.

If available, I am all for instant reply in slo-mo to get it right. That would be the nuts.
 
If the ref didn't blow that call Efren probably would have won that match. Instead, he lost 9-8.

Can't really blame the ref though, my knee jerk reaction was to think it was a foul. I had to watch the replay about 5 times to change my mind.
 
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