How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) thread moved

lfigueroa said:
hmmm, no. John was the one who made that about aiming and standing up to bullies. So he stood up to the bully. As one astute observer commented: Sometimes when you stand up to the bully he takes your lunch money :-)

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

I got some other system players that wanna play you next.
 
cleary said:
I got some other system players that wanna play you next.
Click to expand...


oh, BFD. There are tons of guys that would play me and win, so what? Why don't you get your big, fat, clown dressed nuts up there and play?

Lou Figueroa
just askin'
 
lfigueroa said:
oh, BFD. There are tons of guys that would play me and win, so what? Why don't you get your big, fat, clown dressed nuts up there and play?

Lou Figueroa
just askin'
Click to expand...

Excited-fat-kid-wrestling-fan.gif
 
lfigueroa said:
oh, BFD. There are tons of guys that would play me and win, so what? Why don't you get your big, fat, clown dressed nuts up there and play?

Lou Figueroa
just askin'
Click to expand...

Make a fair game, you're barking at a guy that will gamble.
 
The Saw said:
Make a fair game, you're barking at a guy that will gamble.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I'm not gonna get into a bad game cause he's calling me names. He can call me names, I'll handle that off the table.. but if he wants to make a game, he can make a game. I'm notoriously bad at playing pool.. if he'd like to make me a fair game, he will get played.
 
Yet another thread....

Yet another thread ruined. I cant remember the last thread that wasn't turned to the school yard pissing contest. Its always the same few people who come and drag dirt into the water and make mud for the rest of us.
Az mods are carefully watching to make sure there are no aiming discussions going on but they let lfigueroa make threats or insults and he get no attention. Lfig is not the only one , just the one on this thread who started the downward spiral. Well Ive had my daily dose of the ol'AZ cant take anymore and its only 7am Im off to Face book then driving to Beloit Wi to the Carom room.
 
Getting Back on Topic

I think generally speaking, its a good idea to let people talk about what they want to even if its in the Main Forum however when a thread begins to take over the forum what is there to do about it?

In my opinion you let it run its course eventually everyone will have their say and they might woof up a pool match which in turn will run its course.

Then other topics will come along and eventually someone will begin woofing again and each time less and less will be said about the hot topic until it becomes a topic of its own, which is likely what is happening now.

I don't remember the last time I was on the aiming forum and I don't care to go back because I aim pretty good and am at peace with the whole process. You don't have to aim the way I do, just don't take so dang long to shoot. Speed pool that's they way of the future!!
 
In case people lost track of what this thread was initially about, here's a recap of the important points:

1.) The How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) thread was initially posted in the Main Forum and was moved without notice to the "Aiming Conversations" forum, which is rarely visited.

2.) I and others feel the "Aiming Conversations" thread was created for the "lightning rod" discussions that surround cut-shot "aiming systems" like CTE, 90/90, TOI, etc.

3.) I and others feel that many participants in the Main Forum are interested in most topics related to aiming (visual alignment, pre-shot routine, visualization methods, cut-induced throw, use of english, squirt/swerve compensation, cue ball control, rail cut shots, elevated-cue shots, kick and bank shot systems, etc.). Furthermore, we feel people should feel free to discuss these sorts of things in the Main Forum (where most people participate). If all threads containing the words "aim" and "aiming" where moved out of the Main Forum, the Main Forum (which is a big part of AZB) would lose significant value, IMO.

4.) Of the clips posted in the original thread, only one is really appropriate for the "Aiming Conversations" forum ... the one dealing with fractional-ball aiming, which is partly the basis for some cut-shot aiming systems like SAM, CTE, 90/90, and others.

Below are the videos that were shared in the original thread. In a couple of places, I've removed the word "aim" or "aiming" to attempt to prevent offense to anyone. Also, I've removed the link to the first video since it truly is "cut-shot aiming system"-related (and probably appropriate for the "Aiming Conversations" thread). The others definitely fit into all of the other categories listed in "3" above. These topics are frequently discussed in the Main Forum. I hope that remains to be the case, because that's why many people (me included) enjoy participating on AZB. We don't want to be forced to check multiple forums located in different places. That takes too much time, and many people do not want to do this (as evidenced by the viewership numbers in the non-Main forums).

NV E.1 - Fractional-Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shots, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot System, from HAPS III

Again, Bob and I hope you enjoy and benefit from the clips, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,
Dave
 
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cleary said:
Exactly. I'm not gonna get into a bad game cause he's calling me names. He can call me names, I'll handle that off the table.. but if he wants to make a game, he can make a game. I'm notoriously bad at playing pool.. if he'd like to make me a fair game, he will get played.
Click to expand...


It wasn't a name it was a description :-)

Lou Figueroa
 
J-Flo said:
Yet another thread ruined. I cant remember the last thread that wasn't turned to the school yard pissing contest. Its always the same few people who come and drag dirt into the water and make mud for the rest of us.
Az mods are carefully watching to make sure there are no aiming discussions going on but they let lfigueroa make threats or insults and he get no attention. Lfig is not the only one , just the one on this thread who started the downward spiral. Well Ive had my daily dose of the ol'AZ cant take anymore and its only 7am Im off to Face book then driving to Beloit Wi to the Carom room.
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oh good grief. Just in the last day or two here I've been called "Loucifer" and an "idiot." And Cleary and I have been jibbing each other on our respective sartorial styles in his "Dress Codes" threads for weeks. Don't be so sensitive. Have a nice time at Carom. Have a beer. Relax.

Lou Figueroa
 
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The moves

dr_dave said:
In case people lost track of what this thread was initially about, here's a recap of the important points:

1.) The How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) thread was initially posted in the Main Forum and was moved without notice to the "Aiming Conversations" forum, which is rarely visited.

2.) I and others feel the "Aiming Conversations" thread was created for the "lightning rod" discussions that surround cut-shot "aiming systems" like CTE, 90/90, TOI, etc.

3.) I and others feel that many participants in the Main Forum are interested in most topics related to aiming (visual alignment, pre-shot routine, visualization methods, cut-induced throw, use of english, squirt/swerve compensation, cue ball control, rail cut shots, elevated-cue shots, kick and bank shot systems, etc.). Furthermore, we feel people should feel free to discuss these sorts of things in the Main Forum (where most people participate). If all threads containing the words "aim" and "aiming" where moved out of the Main Forum, the Main Forum (which is a big part of AZB) would lose significant value, IMO.

4.) Of the clips posted in the original thread, only one is really appropriate for the "Aiming Conversations" forum ... the one dealing with fractional-ball aiming, which is partly the basis for some cut-shot aiming systems like SAM, CTE, 90/90, and others.

Below are the videos that were shared in the original thread. In a couple of places, I've removed the word "aim" or "aiming" to attempt to prevent offense to anyone. Also, I've removed the link to the first video since it truly is "cut-shot aiming system"-related (and probably appropriate for the "Aiming Conversations" thread). The others definitely fit into all of the other categories listed in "3" above. These topics are frequently discussed in the Main Forum. I hope that remains to be the case, because that's why many people (me included) enjoy participating on AZB. We don't want to be forced to check multiple forums located in different places. That takes too much time, and many people do not want to do this (as evidenced by the viewership numbers in the non-Main forums).

NV E.1 - Fractional-Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shots, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot System, from HAPS III

Again, Bob and I hope you enjoy and benefit from the clips, and we look forward to your comments and questions.

Best regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

I watched all of these videos this morning and the thing that strikes me is the detail given to the end resulting moves that are desired with the cue ball which is very important for breaking out and avoiding balls. Its some really fine material. Just making shots is not everything indeed.
 
 
dr_dave said:
But if threads like this were constantly "shoved under the rug," none (or very little) of this important and pertinent discussion (about the future direction of AZB) would take place. :confused:

Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...

It's not being shoved under the rug..it's being put in a proper forum. I wouldn't put something for sale in the main forum. We have a for sale forum for that. same thing.. now if you want to discuss the silly reason we have to have a forum for aiming that's fine. See unfortunately the a-hole trolls on this forum can't look at say a cte thread.. not be interested in it and move on. They had to start 50 page wars making fun of the people who play better with systems rather then by feel. That's why its there..so people like you can go discuss an aiming system intelligently and be left alone.
personally if I was the mod I would suspend you from the forum for a while for starting another thread after I already moved it lol
 
dr_dave said:
NV E.1 - Fractional-Ball Aiming, from HAPS I
NV E.2 - Back-Hand (BHE) and Front-Hand English (FHE), from HAPS I
NV E.3 - Using "Gearing" Outside English to Eliminate Throw, from HAPS I
NV E.4 - Carom-Shot Trisect-Draw System, from HAPS II
NV E.5 - Combination Shot Throw Adjustment, from HAPS II
NV E.6 - Rail Cut Shots, w/ and w/o Sidespin, from HAPS II
NV E.7 - Mirror Kick-Shot System, from HAPS III
NV E.8 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice Bank-Shot System, from HAPS III
Click to expand...

Dr. Dave,
I did not see NV 1.

NV. 2 BHE and FHE....I was enthralled, I use both of these yet do not fully understand as much as you do about it and I see other people who have learned to use it , do so and they do it out of feel. I thought it was a great way to introduce new players to the thoughts of using spin.

NV. 3 The way this was explained to me by a good player was that a great many shots needed some help by using a half tip to a tip of outside english. I do that on shots where Cue Ball Induced Throw will likely spoil a shot. You do a good job of imparting exactly the point on the cue ball to strike that cancels out the throw.

NV.4 I felt you did a good job of explaining the method/system and the visual application of the system by the player in the video showed exactly how it would look when the system was applied making things clear.

NV. 5 Is a favorite of mine and you did a great job with it.

NV. 6 Kudos here you made it very clear there were alternatives to how this shot could be made in order to affect position play which is the idea. In essence I found it very simple to understand. This shot is very important in One Pocket.

NV.7 Mirror Kick Shot System.....seeing it applied made it easier to do

NV.8 As a Bank pool and One Pocket player from time to time I knew those bankshots but now I know them just a little better and found a great way to identify the shots between the diamonds as parallels that also work. Nice job of finding a way of systemizing this shot.

All in all I thought it would be nice to own yet another series of dvds from you although admittedly I havent found the time to look at the last one....lol.....I work a bit much at least for a few more weeks.

I truly enjoy the work that you and Bob have done here. I think that your work with specific items or skill sets shows the true reality of what its like to apply small systems that help people find "the feel" in pool. Which is where I like to find myself. Its a hard place to find and anything that promotes a true understanding of the principles at play in this game in a visual sense are true gems. It would seem the keys to finding ones best game can be explained in a sensible way and this is what you and Bob have done at least in my eyes.
 
336Robin said:
Dr. Dave,
I did not see NV 1.

NV. 2 BHE and FHE....I was enthralled, I use both of these yet do not fully understand as much as you do about it and I see other people who have learned to use it , do so and they do it out of feel. I thought it was a great way to introduce new players to the thoughts of using spin.

NV. 3 The way this was explained to me by a good player was that a great many shots needed some help by using a half tip to a tip of outside english. I do that on shots where Cue Ball Induced Throw will likely spoil a shot. You do a good job of imparting exactly the point on the cue ball to strike that cancels out the throw.

NV.4 I felt you did a good job of explaining the method/system and the visual application of the system by the player in the video showed exactly how it would look when the system was applied making things clear.

NV. 5 Is a favorite of mine and you did a great job with it.

NV. 6 Kudos here you made it very clear there were alternatives to how this shot could be made in order to affect position play which is the idea. In essence I found it very simple to understand. This shot is very important in One Pocket.

NV.7 Mirror Kick Shot System.....seeing it applied made it easier to do

NV.8 As a Bank pool and One Pocket player from time to time I knew those bankshots but now I know them just a little better and found a great way to identify the shots between the diamonds as parallels that also work. Nice job of finding a way of systemizing this shot.

All in all I thought it would be nice to own yet another series of dvds from you although admittedly I havent found the time to look at the last one....lol.....I work a bit much at least for a few more weeks.

I truly enjoy the work that you and Bob have done here. I think that your work with specific items or skill sets shows the true reality of what its like to apply small systems that help people find "the feel" in pool. Which is where I like to find myself. Its a hard place to find and anything that promotes a true understanding of the principles at play in this game in a visual sense are true gems. It would seem the keys to finding ones best game can be explained in a sensible way and this is what you and Bob have done at least in my eyes.
Click to expand...
Robin,

Thank you so much for your thoughtful, insightful, and kind review of the clips.

You just made my day.

Catch you later,
Dave
 
trob said:
I wouldn't put something for sale in the main forum. We have a for sale forum for that.
Click to expand...
You are correct, the HAPS DVDs are for sale. However, I don't think I am pushing that here. I don't even think I've mentioned it until you did ... thank you for the plug. :grin-square:

Have you watched the clips yet? They cover a lot of stuff often discussed on the Main Forum, and they are totally free. I thought AZB users on the Main Forum would be interested in seeing them. Apparently, some people have been and others have not. Regardless, nobody is forcing anybody to click on the video links or even open the thread.

trob said:
See unfortunately the a-hole trolls on this forum can't look at say a cte thread.. not be interested in it and move on. They had to start 50 page wars making fun of the people who play better with systems rather then by feel. That's why its there..so people like you can go discuss an aiming system intelligently and be left alone.
Click to expand...
Those past CTE "flame war" threads had little to do with "intelligent discussion." They were more about immaturity and pettiness (on both sides of the "debate"). Regardless, I don't think they needed to be moved from the Main Forum, but I can see why the AZB moderators would want to do this since they gave a bad "face" to AZB.

Personally, I don't think any threads should be moved or removed unless they clearly violate AZB policy. I'm fine with users being suspended or expelled permanently if they act immaturely or in a personally-hateful or offensive way. I also think it is fine to delete offensive or inappropriate posts. However, I don't think entire threads should be moved or removed if they are of interest to a large number of Main Forum participants. Again, if somebody isn't interested in a thread, they can just ignore it. And if a specific user really bugs them, they can block that user from their view.

Cheers,
Dave
 
trob said:
It's not being shoved under the rug..it's being put in a proper forum. I wouldn't put something for sale in the main forum. We have a for sale forum for that. same thing.. now if you want to discuss the silly reason we have to have a forum for aiming that's fine. See unfortunately the a-hole trolls on this forum can't look at say a cte thread.. not be interested in it and move on. They had to start 50 page wars making fun of the people who play better with systems rather then by feel. That's why its there..so people like you can go discuss an aiming system intelligently and be left alone.
personally if I was the mod I would suspend you from the forum for a while for starting another thread after I already moved it lol
Click to expand...

Many others who have done this have indeed been banned and/or warned....

There were a lot of people highly involved in the CTE Wars. They are the ones who caused the sub forum to be created. And Dr. Dave, you are one of them.

I say that because its true. All the while being able to say how much I appreciate all that you do and provide here, cuz I really do. But if the shoe fits, it fits... All of the vitriol spawned by those most active in the CTE Wars was harmful. You, Dr. Dave, participated, and now you are also affected by it.
 
justadub said:
Many others who have done this have indeed been banned and/or warned....

There were a lot of people highly involved in the CTE Wars. They are the ones who caused the sub forum to be created. And Dr. Dave, you are one of them.

I say that because its true. All the while being able to say how much I appreciate all that you do and provide here, cuz I really do. But if the shoe fits, it fits... All of the vitriol spawned by those most active in the CTE Wars was harmful. You, Dr. Dave, participated, and now you are also affected by it.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I played a part is some of the early CTE threads, mostly out of an effort to create a better understanding of both the limitations and benefits of the systems. At some point, I did finally decide to stay out of it. In retrospect, I probably should have stayed away from those threads from the very beginning. In my defense, I was often "consulted" for my opinion by numerous thread posts, PM, e-mails, and phone calls, but that's no excuse. Also, I was honestly curious to better understand the claims that were being made.

Again, I should have just been an observer and not an active participant, but hindsight is always 20-20. Live and learn.

Regards,
Dave
 
ever moderate a forum?

dr_dave said:
You are correct, the HAPS DVDs are for sale. However, I don't think I am pushing that here. I don't even think I've mentioned it until you did ... thank you for the plug. :grin-square:

Have you watched the clips yet? They cover a lot of stuff often discussed on the Main Forum, and they are totally free. I thought AZB users on the Main Forum would be interested in seeing them. Apparently, some people have been and others have not. Regardless, nobody is forcing anybody to click on the video links or even open the thread.

Those past CTE "flame war" threads had little to do with "intelligent discussion." They were more about immaturity and pettiness (on both sides of the "debate"). Regardless, I don't think they needed to be moved from the Main Forum, but I can see why the AZB moderators would want to do this since they gave a bad "face" to AZB.

Personally, I don't think any threads should be moved or removed unless they clearly violate AZB policy. I'm fine with users being suspended or expelled permanently if they act immaturely or in a personally-hateful or offensive way. I also think it is fine to delete offensive or inappropriate posts. However, I don't think entire threads should be moved or removed if they are of interest to a large number of Main Forum participants. Again, if somebody isn't interested in a thread, they can just ignore it. And if a specific user really bugs them, they can block that user from their view.

Cheers,
Dave
Click to expand...


Dave,

Ever try to moderate a busy forum with a lot of controversy? I am the former owner(partner) and admin of a political forum. You ain't ever seen intense threads until you have a forum dedicated to politics. Because it was tightly moderated we could even talk about race and religion.

When I had time I moderated line by line in posts. When I was busier, I whacked a post at a time. When I was really pressed or it was like wading through a cesspool to find a few pearls whole threads were whacked. I whacked far more posts I agreed with than disagreed with and banned more than a few people I liked. Kept some jackasses because they did play by the rules. Kept posts and threads I didn't like too, I played by my rules.

Same rules apply to all. Kinda like this thread would be whacked now. You didn't move it back to the original subject of the thread, you moved it back to the subject of the thread that had already been moved once. Something like that on my forum and this thread would be gone. No explanation. Any question would be answered with read the ROE. I had about ten rules and they were kind of like the ten commandments. Didn't take a lawyer to figure them out and they weren't negotiable.

Hu
 
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