How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) thread moved

The Saw said:
And for all that want to crack on John for that match, why don't you pony up 10k of YOUR OWN MONEY and give someone the nuts? And don't tell me that it was "advertising". $500, maybe $2,000 is advertising, $10,000 is dead gambling. Lou was stealing from the start, everyone knew it but John. So for all of you people that won't bet water is wet, why don't you shut your trap about John and his mechanics? Or better yet, why don't you go pull $10,000 out of your own bank account and go bet it playing a superior player on a live stream??? I'll bet most of you talking smack about John's mechanics will do a good bit of shitting down your leg yourself.
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This is not so. In several polls here John was the clear favorite and I was the dog. So much so that John repeatedly said he doubted I would even show up for the match.

Lou Figueroa
 
ShootingArts said:
Funny thing, I think aiming threads belong in the aiming forum now. That is what happens when you splinter a forum, doesn't matter if a thread is good or bad, fine, fine at the moment but likely to head downhill, or stirring the poop from the first post, it goes in the category it fits.

AZB moving the pool related threads off of the main forum reminds me of another niche site. The members whined for years that they wanted a lot of the off topic stuff on the main forum. They got their way and the off topic became the main forum with sub forums for all the real stuff. That site went from as big as AZB to less than one-fourth of it's size and value.

As a general rule the more a forum is fragmented the less value it has to it's readers. AZB has moved most pool related content to forums few ever see. Still aiming threads belong in aiming now. No shades of gray. A shame ain't it?

Hu
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Interesting post Hu. I don't blog that much just here but it certainly seems a self fulfilling prophesy is occurring.
 
lfigueroa said:
hmmm, no. John was the one who made that about aiming and standing up to bullies. So he stood up to the bully. As one astute observer commented: Sometimes when you stand up to the bully he takes your lunch money :-)

Lou Figueroa
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Yeah so true..reality is kinda harsh. So you were the bully? How did you get that brand. I honestly didn't even see the match, wish I would have.
 
ShootingArts said:
Dave,

Nothing I say about the future direction of AZB is important. Been saying the same thing for years and years, you never noticed until it was your ox getting gored. Same with everyone else until it is their ass, um ox, getting gored.

Hu
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It takes many ox to pull a heavy load.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Great, now you've turned this into a dreaded "aiming systems" thread again. It will now probably be banished to the dark-corner, bastard-child "Aiming Conversations" forum. Then I'll have to post a new thread about the thread that was moved about the thread that was moved. :grin-square:

Catch you later,
Dave

PS: Lou, whenever you remind people about "The Match" with JB, you should post that collage of photos of John in his unique post-shot positions. They visually demonstrate his superior aiming system and fundamentals very well. ;)
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See Dave when your friends are around you take those jabs at aiming systems. You would get more respect if you grew up.
 
The Saw said:
And for all that want to crack on John for that match, why don't you pony up 10k of YOUR OWN MONEY and give someone the nuts? And don't tell me that it was "advertising". $500, maybe $2,000 is advertising, $10,000 is dead gambling. Lou was stealing from the start, everyone knew it but John. So for all of you people that won't bet water is wet, why don't you shut your trap about John and his mechanics? Or better yet, why don't you go pull $10,000 out of your own bank account and go bet it playing a superior player on a live stream??? I'll bet most of you talking smack about John's mechanics will do a good bit of shitting down your leg yourself.
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What a ridiculous post.
 
dr_dave said:
I would never play somebody better than me for a large sum of money. That's just silly.

Regards,
Dave
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You wouldn't spend months bigging yourself up beforehand, either. Anyone who does that, and falls flat on their face, deserves all the derision they get.
 
Also, I agree that I think this site has too many subforums. The main forum and the whole experience would be a lot better if everything wasn't so sectioned off. The best example is the awesome stuff that can be found in the instruction sub forum with people asking questions and getting answers, but it's rarely visited by most.
 
dr_dave said:
I'm not sure to whom you are attributing the "knee jerk reaction" part. If you are referring to the moderators, I agree 100%. Even though the word "aiming" was used a lot in the post, there are many topics covered in the linked videos that have often been discussed and debated on the Main forum (BHE, FHE, outside vs. inside english, gearing outside english, effective use of english, rail cut shot CB control, draw shot CB control, kick and bank shot aiming systems, etc.).
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dr_dave said:
The videos include many things of interest to Main Forum users, and I don't think there was any risk of the thread degrading into an "aiming-system-style" personal-attack thread.
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I agree. A general purpose aiming system for all shots was actually only a small part of your content and the majority of it was stuff that has always been and still is currently discussed in the main forum and is considered by the mods to be appropriate for the main forum. It should not have been moved.

dr_dave said:
I know that is a lot of "baggage" and "bad history" concerning cut-shot aiming-system threads in the past, and I know the "Aiming Conversations" forum was created partly to "hide" these unfortunate and undesireable threads from the public face of AZB, but I don't think all things even remotely related to cut-shot aiming should be cast into the rarely-viewed "aiming system" forum (AKA "the bastard child of AZB").
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dr_dave said:
Sometimes cut-shot-aiming-system threads get out of control with personal attacks, and they sometimes create more ill will than useful discussion. In those cases, they should be "banished" to the "Aiming Conversation" thread.
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I will address the elephant in the room that everyone is avoiding. The "Aiming Conversations" sub forum is in reality only in existence because of the CTE and pivot based aiming systems, and all the controversy that surrounds them, and all the arguments that they cause. It should in fact just be renamed the "CTE Based Aiming systems", and all CTE based aiming system discussion/arguments should take place there. All other discussions of other aiming systems should remain in the main forum because they are not controversial, are not considered heretic or snake oil by a sizable portion of the public, and do not lead to the impassioned arguments that get out of hand like clock work. The aiming system forum is and should be the CTE based aiming system forum and all else should be in main.
 
Hmmm

It appears this thread as many do has been side tracked to say the least.

Dave, perhaps I was wrong. Your thread might be better off in the aiming sub=forum where it hopefully won't be side tracked with nonsense ! :bash:

Wedge
 
Poolplaya9 said:
I agree. A general purpose aiming system for all shots was actually only a small part of your content and the majority of it was stuff that has always been and still is currently discussed in the main forum and is considered by the mods to be appropriate for the main forum. It should not have been moved.





I will address the elephant in the room that everyone is avoiding. The "Aiming Conversations" sub forum is in reality only in existence because of the CTE and pivot based aiming systems, and all the controversy that surrounds them, and all the arguments that they cause. It should in fact just be renamed the "CTE Based Aiming systems", and all CTE based aiming system discussion/arguments should take place there. All other discussions of other aiming systems should remain in the main forum because they are not controversial, are not considered heretic or snake oil by a sizable portion of the public, and do not lead to the impassioned arguments that get out of hand like clock work. The aiming system forum is and should be the CTE based aiming system forum and all else should be in main.
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That would be a fine solution *except* that the CTE crowd cannot help demselves and have to use any aiming discussion to proselytize. Next thing you know there are naysayers, haters, and tons of blue ink all over the place. (That's why there's a sub-furem for them guys.)

Lou Figueroa
takes days
to clean up
the place
 
lfigueroa said:
That would be a fine solution *except* that the CTE crowd cannot help demselves and have to use any aiming discussion to proselytize. Next thing you know there are naysayers, haters, and tons of blue ink all over the place. (That's why there's a sub-furem for them guys.)

Lou Figueroa
takes days
to clean up
the place
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I agree. *Any* talk of aiming at all, is essentially a plane with a lead wing, that quickly flips over to that one side and spirals into the ground. That has been proven out over literally YEARS of threads here on AZB. Threads can start out innocently enough, and then all it takes is for one or two "advocates" or "anti-advocates" (they both are guilty) to jump in, and that's the end of any civility and "on-topic"-edness of that thread.

Every forum dedicated to a sport or a topic has a "lightning rod" topic that needs to be cordoned-off into its own subforum with yellow police tape. For AZB, that turned out to be the topic of aiming.

It's sad, too, because aiming -- whether done naturally or through a system -- is part and parcel to good pool. It's roughly analogous to puling the ignition system out of a running car, because the ignition system "causes flames."

Anyway, there are a few other lightning-rod topics here, but Aiming was the big kahuna of them all.

-Sean
 
Poolplaya9 said:
I agree. A general purpose aiming system for all shots was actually only a small part of your content and the majority of it was stuff that has always been and still is currently discussed in the main forum and is considered by the mods to be appropriate for the main forum. It should not have been moved.





I will address the elephant in the room that everyone is avoiding. The "Aiming Conversations" sub forum is in reality only in existence because of the CTE and pivot based aiming systems, and all the controversy that surrounds them, and all the arguments that they cause. It should in fact just be renamed the "CTE Based Aiming systems", and all CTE based aiming system discussion/arguments should take place there. All other discussions of other aiming systems should remain in the main forum because they are not controversial, are not considered heretic or snake oil by a sizable portion of the public, and do not lead to the impassioned arguments that get out of hand like clock work. The aiming system forum is and should be the CTE based aiming system forum and all else should be in main.
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Great post, well said.
 
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