9ball without the break is NO 9ball...

Taking the break out of 9-ball is like taking home runs out of baseball.

As exciting as it may be to others, I hate watching baseball games that are all defense and very little offense (singles, steals, etc.). I prefer watching games that have a bit of excitement...like Babe Ruth hitting one over the wall when he is at bat.
 
Mosconi cup is a team event on a shot clock, not a singles one, totally different.
Exactly like others have stated, in no other sport there is deliberate reduction of the importance in any part of the sport, that is one of the reasons other sports hang on better.
If this is not understood early enough in todays conditions, we may not have in the future any pro pool at all, sooner than we think...
 
Petros Andrikop said:
Exactly like others have stated, in no other sport there is deliberate reduction of the importance in any part of the sport, that is one of the reasons other sports hang on better. If this is not understood early enough in todays conditions, we may not have in the future any pro pool at all, sooner than we think...
Click to expand...

False. Golf, through narrower fairways and longer rough, intentionally makes the first shot on every hole more difficult in the US Open, it's national championship.

Yes, that reduces the advantage typically enjoyed by golf's longest hitters, but the US Golf Association takes the view that it makes it a greater test of skill. Rather than overpowering the course as a pro might do at the Greater Hartford Open, in which the winner might need to make thirty birdies in a weekend to contend for the title, the pros must show more improvisational and scrambling skills, playing from more challenging positions after the drive.

Yes, scores won't be as good and the winner will be just a few under par, but the winner will have passed a much more comprehensive test of skill than the winner of the Greater Hartford Open. On AZB, it seems everyone wants pool to be more like golf, except in this respect.
 
It's not the best analogy, making it more difficult is not the same as making it almost impossible so that the specific shot skill is practically out of play.
It's like having narrow pockets, not a brake setup that doesn't bring results most of the time, no matter what the better breaker does.
If they had decided using the big box it would be a different story...
 
Last edited:
takeitdown said:
So what pros specifically are you referring to?

I am saying when other players say Dechaine is a rack mechanic it's because their break isn't on par. If he makes a ball 70% of the time and 75% of the time he makes a ball he can see the lowest number ball is that an accident? is it magic? No it's called hard work that results in one of the best breaks out there.

So yes if a guy like him or SVB or whoever practiced breaking 20 hours a week is more successful on the break and because of that he beats 95% of the pros out there...I can live with that.

I don't care what tournament it is at any level, only 3 guys there are supposed to win anyway. Nothing short of races to 2 will ever change that.
Click to expand...

I'm a MD fan. I'm not out to get him, specifically, tho the allegations apply to him as well.

As I said before, i think the better breakers (SVB, MD, et al) will rise to the top, especially in a neutral racked game.

I just don't want to see any game of any significance decided by how the rack is manipulated.
 
Justin Collett has the answer. the bucket dump. The balls are dumped on the table in center and the player plays from where it lies. Can't get much more random than that.
 
NitPicker said:
To me, rules like illegal breaks when balls are pocketed, and 1 foul ball in hand take the el numero uno thing spectators are expecting to see. Balls dropping in pockets!
Click to expand...

And yet the most successful and popular pool tournament in the world uses these rules.

Endless break and runouts are more boring than safety play, IMO.
 
If directors and viewers don't want to see run outs any more and prefer safeties, they could use Mike Page's "Nafe" game instead, a "9ball" game in which you gain points by playing safe and not by making balls.
In fact, we could even forbid run outs... :)
Anyway, 9 on the spot, small box with triangle and racking your own will bring some funny results in the following US open....
Just get your pop corn guys, a 9ball-like event is coming... :)
 
SakuJack said:
And yet the most successful and popular pool tournament in the world uses these rules.

Endless break and runouts are more boring than safety play, IMO.
Click to expand...

SakuJack, I understand your perspective. I would guess you're at least a decent player who probably takes their game a bit seriously. Make no mistake, however, you are in a minority. There are always purists in every sport, but the majority of sports spectators are not as knowledgeable about the subtleties and are mostly interested in offense, not defense. Not to say there is no value in defense, as better defense often bests the better offense. But most people are uninterested in baseball games that end in a single run scored, football games that score only field goals, and is large part of why soccer and hockey have small fan bases in the US. Even in boxing, fighters that are mostly defensive and don't take chances are usually classified as "boring" and "runners" and have a hard time promoting themselves without personality or gimmick.

The most successful and popular pool tournament in the world, most likely has that prestigious title due to the financial investments made into it, rather than any particular format or rules. And yet, only the hardcore pool aficionados even know that it takes place. If you want a growing fan base, you're going to have to inspire people that don't have the knowledge of someone that's been playing all their life.

Would we even have masse shots and some of the more spectacular and mesmerizing shots we've seen over the years if safeties were such a critical part of the game years ago? Again, I've never seen a trick shot event or artistic pool tournament perform jail tight safeties. It's always about how creative you can get to get the balls to go in the hole.

In pretty much every sport I know, how players prefer to play is seldom what the audience prefers to see. Players work towards perfection to have as little drama as possible and keep the odds in their favor. But it's the imperfections, drama, and beating the odds that people relate to and gets them excited.

Just my opinion, of course.
 
If you're going to play 9-Ball then play 9-Ball. If you want to made up your rules for a new game
then made up a new name too, and play that game, but it won't be 9-Ball.[/QUOTE]

BONUS BALL!!!! :D
 
I agree with this post 100%. Racking the 9 on the spot and breaking from a small break box takes the break almost completely out of the game. I know some people think its not true but they played the Mosconi cup with these rules and the breaks were everything but majestic. IFa ball went in on the break it was most likely kicked in and SVB, the best breaker in the world, lost the advantage he worked so hard to get and one of the reasons why he is such a great player. Rack the 1 on the spot and make em break from the box. At least then the players can hard break and play the 1.
 
SureShot21 said:
I agree with this post 100%. Racking the 9 on the spot and breaking from a small break box takes the break almost completely out of the game. I know some people think its not true but they played the Mosconi cup with these rules and the breaks were everything but majestic. IFa ball went in on the break it was most likely kicked in and SVB, the best breaker in the world, lost the advantage he worked so hard to get and one of the reasons why he is such a great player. Rack the 1 on the spot and make em break from the box. At least then the players can hard break and play the 1.
Click to expand...

A lot of players can outbreak Shane playing 9-ball.
 
SakuJack said:
A lot of players can outbreak Shane playing 9-ball.
Click to expand...

If they do, it's not only because of the break. Break is only one part of the game, and that is what both "in favor" and "against" the break people agree to. The difference is that one side wants to make that part count as less as possible...
 
The break is huge in 9 ball.

Petros Andrikop said:
If any of the skills which one player performs better than the other are taken out of play that is against talent and hard work (a better break also comes from more work and not luck) which are "punished", it's against parts of the game so it's against the game.
What we want to hold as important is all parts of the game, not just some of them.
I have already explained that a player who runs out more is a better position player too, more consistent, that is common knowledge, you don't run out more just because of a better break.
There is no reason in any sport worldwide to give more chances of winning to a player who is behind in some parts of the game compared to another. They already have equal chances when the match starts at 0-0.
If the player that doesn't break and run as good wants better chances, he has to work for them in the game and not getting them through any special setup. Even if he has less talent, he can compensate through even more work. Otherwise he gets the wrong message, and the better players become the "fools" of the situation...
Not "protecting" the better players (by acting against them), drives away the young generation from every sport.
Click to expand...

The break is huge advantage in 9 ball. I rack very good and my friend breaks and make the corner ball every time and hes a good player so he runs out a lot. So he racks and he stinks at racking so I make a ball about 50 percent of the time so I have the equal chance only 50 percent of the time and it shows up in the score because your 50/50 to get a lock up safe and youre 50/50 he will shoot you one back.

Any way you slice it I would be on the losing end and I would have a right to ***** but we are playing for fun, when he starts talking his smack then I start inspecting the rack and things equalize, funny how that works.

If I had an opinion that mattered I would say this:

Either everyone use a magic rack and learn to shoot better safes and let that determine the better rack runner or

Make it so its harder to make the wing ball by changing the position of the break.

I would be perfectly fine if you took the break out of play by making the thing square instead of diamond shaped it wouldn't matter to me but I don't like the fact that spaces in the rack end up being a determining factor of who is winning.
 
Petros Andrikop said:
If they do, it's not only because of the break. Break is only one part of the game, and that is what both "in favor" and "against" the break people agree to. The difference is that one side wants to make that part count as less as possible...
Click to expand...

What?

sjm said:
Based on experience, this is most definitely NOT the case.
Click to expand...

Sure it is. Shane's 9-ball break is good, but it's nothing special (in the way his 10-ball break is). He's always going to be one of the better breakers in a tournament, but playing 9-ball there are definitely players who can outbreak him.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top