Pool Myths Explained

JoeyA said:
The most important thing you can do to improve your pool game is to hit a million balls (HAMB).

While hitting a millions balls isn't a bad thing (if you have the time and the motivation to do so), it takes a lot of effort and time and you would be far better off by FIRST, investing your time in working on improving your fundamentals and pool knowledge, as you're wasting an awful lot of time just hitting a million balls without building a strong foundation governing all fundamentals and yes, that also includes learning how to aim.

JoeyA
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FYI, here is what I currently have on the Top 100 Pool Myths page related to this:

28. The only way to learn to aim is to play 10,000 hours or "hit a million balls."

It can certainly help to practice a lot and gain lots of experience, but an understanding of aiming principles, having a consistent and purposeful pre-shot routine, and knowing how to adjust aim when using english can certainly speed the learning process.


95. Practice makes perfect.

Only perfect practice makes perfect. If all you do is reinforce bad habits, or if you fail to learn and develop understanding during practice, it won't help your game much. In fact, "practice can make permanent" the wrong things.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Anybody check these out yet? Any disagreements, suggestions, or questions? ...
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I just took a look. Good work, dr_dave!

I do think #80 needs a qualifier where you say "Pattern racking is illegal and unethical..."

That's true for most games under most sets of rules, but it is not true for American Rotation. That game's rules explicitly allow pattern racking for the nine balls that are not assigned to specific locations.
 
AtLarge said:
I just took a look. Good work, dr_dave!

I do think #80 needs a qualifier where you say "Pattern racking is illegal and unethical..."

That's true for most games under most sets of rules, but it is not true for American Rotation. That game's rules explicitly allow pattern racking for the nine balls that are not assigned to specific locations.
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Thank you for the suggestion. I've made a change. Here's the latest:

80. Pattern racking is legal, and players who know the tricks should use them.

In most pool games (and under the official rules of pool), pattern racking is illegal and unethical; although, knowing where certain balls in a rack tend to head is useful to know (see pattern racking strategy).

How does that sound?

Thanks again,
Dave
 
Dave, can you redo 76 please? The snooker world briefly considered static electricity as a possible cause for bad contacts, but it has never been thought of as likely, in England or anywhere else. It is certainly not a common misconception.

And cling/kicks is caused by chalk marks is also contentious. Obviously, chalk can and will cause kicks, but it is by no means the only thing that does. Thankfully, the incessant cleaning of cue balls has become a thing of the past, with no resultant increase in kicks.
 
Ron Swanson said:
Dave, can you redo 76 please? The snooker world briefly considered static electricity as a possible cause for bad contacts, but it has never been thought of as likely, in England or anywhere else. It is certainly not a common misconception.

And cling/kicks is caused by chalk marks is also contentious. Obviously, chalk can and will cause kicks, but it is by no means the only thing that does. Thankfully, the incessant cleaning of cue balls has become a thing of the past, with no resultant increase in kicks.
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Thank you for the suggestion. FYI, I've made some revisions and additions. Here it is:

76. Cling/skid/kick is caused by static electricity.

This was a common misconception in the past (especially with some people in the snooker world), but it is simply not true. Cling is caused by chalk marks on the balls. It can also be caused by some cleaning products and polishes (see cling/skid/kick). It is important to recognize that a normal amount of throw (especially when the normal throw is large, as with slow stun shots or slow small-cut-angle shots with sidespin) can sometimes be confused with cling/skid/kick (see maximum throw). Normal throw (even a large amount) is a direct result of throw physics effects, and it is not due to something being wrong with the balls.


Check out the links. The video evidence is fairly convincing.

Regards,
Dave
 
dr_dave said:
Thank you for the suggestion. FYI, I've made some revisions and additions. Here it is:

76. Cling/skid/kick is caused by static electricity.

This was a common misconception in the past (especially with some people in the snooker world), but it is simply not true. Cling is caused by chalk marks on the balls. It can also be caused by some cleaning products and polishes (see cling/skid/kick). It is important to recognize that a normal amount of throw (especially when the normal throw is large, as with slow stun shots or slow small-cut-angle shots with sidespin) can sometimes be confused with cling/skid/kick (see maximum throw). Normal throw (even a large amount) is a direct result of throw physics effects, and it is not due to something being wrong with the balls.


Check out the links. The video evidence is fairly convincing.

Regards,
Dave
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I have never been convinced that static electricity isn't one of the causes
of skids...or kicks as the snooker world calls them.

Here is one story....I was there.

Jimmy White was playing somebody? in Toronto...late 80s...
...I dropped in about halfway through the match...
...Jimmy said to me at the break "I can't believe how many kicks we're
getting....almost every second shot."
The referee was Bob Hargrove and he was using white nylon gloves..
...BCE was sponsoring the event and Keith Whybrow was there as
head of BCE Canada.
Keith asked Bob to switch gloves with Graham Duncan, who had white
COTTON gloves.

Snooker referees clean the balls with their gloves whenever they pick
them up....

THE KICKS STOPPED HAPPENING

Does anybody have another explanation other than static electricity?
 
pt109 said:
... THE KICKS STOPPED HAPPENING

Does anybody have another explanation other than static electricity?
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Sure. Something about the cotton gloves kept chalk from adhering to the cue ball on each shot. I suppose it could have been that they didn't charge up the cue ball and so chalk was less inclined to stick.

But static electricity itself is not the direct cause. The forces it can induce are way, way too small.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sure. Something about the cotton gloves kept chalk from adhering to the cue ball on each shot. I suppose it could have been that they didn't charge up the cue ball and so chalk was less inclined to stick.

But static electricity itself is not the direct cause. The forces it can induce are way, way too small.
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Sitting in the practice room in Preston UK in the 80s.....
....we came up with 7 reasons for kicks.
We agreed that dirty balls was the primary reason...

...second was thick snooker cloth...the cue ball is hydroplaning ( can't think
of a better word )...the object ball is sitting lower, and especially against
the nap, has a slight resistance to impact...cue ball climbs up the object
ball....that's why many snooker players like to hit with draw whenever
possible.

The last reason was static electricity...it doesn't have to be strong.

I just haven't had a definite reason why it couldn't be....
...and I don't have sufficient knowledge to explain why it could be.
 
pt109 said:
... ...second was thick snooker cloth...the cue ball is hydroplaning ( can't think of a better word )...the object ball is sitting lower, and especially against the nap, has a slight resistance to impact...cue ball climbs up the object ball....that's why many snooker players like to hit with draw whenever possible.

The last reason was static electricity...it doesn't have to be strong.

I just haven't had a definite reason why it couldn't be....
...and I don't have sufficient knowledge to explain why it could be.
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If you look at the forces involved during the ball-ball collision, the cloth makes no difference. The cloth-ball force can't come anywhere close to the ball-ball force. What the balls are sitting on makes no difference to the chances of a kick at the instant of contact. It may be that one kind of cloth is better than another at keeping the balls clean, but that's a delayed effect.

I think I provided a reason why static electricity couldn't be the direct cause of kicks. Why did you reject my reason?
 
Paul. Nylon can do it.

Myth - Terry Blue wears panty hose when playing pool.

Not any more. It can be shocking.
 
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Bob Jewett said:
If you look at the forces involved during the ball-ball collision, the cloth makes no difference. The cloth-ball force can't come anywhere close to the ball-ball force. What the balls are sitting on makes no difference to the chances of a kick at the instant of contact. It may be that one kind of cloth is better than another at keeping the balls clean, but that's a delayed effect.

I think I provided a reason why static electricity couldn't be the direct cause of kicks. Why did you reject my reason?
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I'm going by instinct here....same way I play pool, Bob.
I just asked the smartest man I know to research it.

When I HEAR a certain kick that sounds different than the run-of-the-mill ones,
I think it's the static one.
I play this game with my ears.

thanx for the patience and consideration from you and the good Doctor.
 
pt109 said:
I'm going by instinct here....same way I play pool, Bob.
I just asked the smartest man I know to research it.

When I HEAR a certain kick that sounds different than the run-of-the-mill ones,
I think it's the static one.
I play this game with my ears.

thanx for the patience and consideration from you and the good Doctor.
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I also go by instinct, and feel the chalk, chalk, chalk mantra is misguided.

It should be pointed out this is in relation to snooker, where bad contacts became an hysterical obsession to some players. Pool provides too few kicks to care about. This in itself is odd, given i often see pool balls caked in chalk, yet rarely see any similar marks on a snooker ball.

There is a line of thought that oils from your hand helps prevent kicks, so refs with gloves are contributing to the problem by cleaning the CB. Personally, i think most bad contacts are the result of bad cueing.
 
SakuJack said:
Definitely agree. It's a shame this isn't brought up more often as a possible reason. I know Hendry has mentioned it in commentary at least.
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In a TAR interview Johnny Archer said he seems most likely to get a skid when he's "poked" at the ball and not followed through properly. He said that if he strokes properly and does a full follow through he won't get a skid.

According to this thread his reasoning contains a couple of myths. But, let's give him a break, he's new to the game.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Sure. Something about the cotton gloves kept chalk from adhering to the cue ball on each shot. I suppose it could have been that they didn't charge up the cue ball and so chalk was less inclined to stick.

But static electricity itself is not the direct cause. The forces it can induce are way, way too small.
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I mentioned this possibility to you during a discussion a while back and IIRC you didn't respond to my comment at the time. Interesting to see that you consider it to be at least a possibility.

I'm sure you are already familiar with the triboelectric effect, but some others might find the following Wiki entry informative:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboelectric_effect


Bottom line is that whenever you allow two substances that have dissimilar charge separations to come into contact with each other, electrons are going to flow from the substance higher on the triboelectric table (more positive) to the substance that is lower on the table (more negative).

Dust particles are small enough that the charge will get polarized within the particle itself, causing the positive side of the particle to be attracted to the negatively charged surface of the balls. The static charge gradually dissipates, but it does this very slowly in dry air. I have noticed times in the dry winter where the balls will be covered with a fuzz of extremely fine dust (some of which is surely chalk). The worst skids I have ever noticed happen during these times.

It might be noted that modern worsted wool billiard cloth is about 25% nylon by content, so even using cotton gloves you still have resin balls rubbing against nylon. Even worse are bare, oily hands handling the balls, as these are near the very top of the triboelectric table.

Also, you don't need to have friction from the balls moving to create this phenomenon. You get charged up yourself from walking around the table, and you can transfer this charge to the CB through your cue in the instant the tip makes contact. We've all experienced this when the wife sneaks up to kiss you on a dry February evening and jumps back when she gets zapped on the lips, usually making the same old comment about still having "that electricity between us".:rolleyes:
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
I mentioned this possibility to you during a discussion a while back and IIRC you didn't respond to my comment at the time. Interesting to see that you consider it to be at least a possibility.

I'm sure you are already familiar with the triboelectric effect, but some others might find the following Wiki entry informative:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triboelectric_effect


Bottom line is that whenever you allow two substances that have dissimilar charge separations to come into contact with each other, electrons are going to flow from the substance higher on the triboelectric table (more positive) to the substance that is lower on the table (more negative).

Dust particles are small enough that the charge will get polarized within the particle itself, causing the positive side of the particle to be attracted to the negatively charged surface of the balls. The static charge gradually dissipates, but it does this very slowly in dry air. I have noticed times in the dry winter where the balls will be covered with a fuzz of extremely fine dust (some of which is surely chalk). The worst skids I have ever noticed happen during these times.

It might be noted that modern worsted wool billiard cloth is about 25% nylon by content, so even using cotton gloves you still have resin balls rubbing against nylon. Even worse are bare, oily hands handling the balls, as these are near the very top of the triboelectric table.

Also, you don't need to have friction from the balls moving to create this phenomenon. You get charged up yourself from walking around the table, and you can transfer this charge to the CB through your cue in the instant the tip makes contact. We've all experienced this when the wife sneaks up to kiss you on a dry February evening and jumps back when she gets zapped on the lips, usually making the same old comment about still having "that electricity between us".:rolleyes:
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You are wrong on the last part. The charge will not go through your cue to the tip unless you are using a graphite or aluminum cue. Wood will not transfer the charge, nor will the thick dry leather tip. The resistance is just way too high. It would take a quite large amperage to go through the cue.
 
Neil said:
You are wrong on the last part. The charge will not go through your cue to the tip unless you are using a graphite or aluminum cue. Wood will not transfer the charge, nor will the thick dry leather tip. The resistance is just way too high. It would take a quite large amperage to go through the cue.
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No, you are wrong. Transfer of static charges has nothing to do with the electrical conductivity of the materials involved. The charges are at the surface and electrons do not need to flow through the material itself during contact. In fact, static charges jump quite readily through air, which is about as poor a conductor as can be found outside of a vacuum.
 
Ron Swanson said:
It should be pointed out this is in relation to snooker, where bad contacts became an hysterical obsession to some players. Pool provides too few kicks to care about. This in itself is odd, given i often see pool balls caked in chalk, yet rarely see any similar marks on a snooker ball.
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The mass of a snooker ball is quite a bit less than that of a pool ball, but they both probably have the same size contact patch. Therefore, the frictional force of the chalk may have a larger effect on a lighter ball. Food for thought at any rate.
 
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