Oscar Dominguez and Amar Kang split

Television as we know it itself is dying and as much as I hate to admit it, I think Cleary is pretty accurate about pool chances of getting back on the tube. The two major pro sports his company covers are both hurting financially (in the US).

I also agree with Roger about splitting during tournaments but I've been in a few that lasted long into the night/early a.m. and can't blame guys for wanting, or having to cut it short as a result. I believe most have to get back to reality and work Monday mornings, although I'd rather still be playing pool.
 
Roger Long said:
And why isn't it cut out for TV? It should be. How can pro players ever expect to get paid on a level with pro players from other sports if they can't put on something that is cut out for TV?

Roger
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What live sports event finishes at 3 am? Add the fact we live in an instant gratification, short attention span era and you have your answer.

Pool on television is recorded matches used as filler in between live events.
 
Half the time you read about a winner, it's a split in disguise anyway. Not much you can do about chopping, but I never really considered it to be a major problem.
I think that because the players like the option, its not considered taboo to split.

If we could just convince people of the truth, that bowling sucks.... pool would be on easy street.
 
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cleary said:
[...]
Pool:
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Ha! Looks like Holden Chin had a hard night. :D

Summary: I do agree with you, though, cleary. There are just some sports not cut out for TV. Pool is one of them. (Only diehard fans and players watch it. To anyone else, it's like watching someone play chess or bocce.) Even the Olympic sport of "curling" is more exciting to watch for the non-enthusiast than pool.

-Sean
 
cleary said:
I'm the art director for a very large sports network. In fact, we have 3 channels and reach give or take 20 million tvs. Our main focus is NBA and NHL live games but we also have other sports such as college football, college basketball and even poker and sometimes pool.

So, that's my reality.
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This court concedes that this witness is an Expert, your honor.
 
Out of touch may be a little strong - perhaps longing for the romantic era of pool.

It will never more than a niche sport ever again. It's losing interest faster than you can say PlayStation 4.

Pool is losing out to the video industry. Just a fact of life, sort of like the horse gave way to the automobile.

People still ride horses and people will still play pool but I suspect in 50 years, it will be little more than a novelty, uh, pool that is...
 
I will say this, pool is cut for tv but not in this fashion. The characters in pool are one of a kind and would do well in a reality format. Pool as a sport with a "what's he do here Bob?" stuff just isn't working. One could lead to the other but the tail can't wag the dog.
 
If all the TD's at these tournaments that players split would run their tournaments to end at a reasonable time, maybe there wouldn't be much spliting. It's called a shot clock, right amout of tables, and start earlier. Johnnyt
 
Roger Long said:
I just read the report on the AZB home page where Oscar and Amar split 1st & 2nd place winnings in the Mezz West State Tour 10-ball tournament in Sacramento this past weekend. Although that might have been the merciful thing to do in a tournament where the second set of the final match wasn't going to begin until 3:00am on Monday morning, it does absolutely nothing to help the long-standing situation we've had with "pro" pool in America.

In a sport that should be trying to draw live audiences to its events in order for its hosts to stand a chance to recover their expenses, and one that should be trying to develop interesting programs that could draw TV audiences to the screens so that advertisers could warrant investing their advertising dollars, we instead have one that insists on holding the same old types of events that pursue large fields and then drag everything out only to give no clear winner in the end. Why would anyone be interested in watching that? It's not even any fun to read about a split in the tournament reports. I don't care to hear anything about two people splitting money and points. I always want to know who won.

Whether it be limiting the fields, or shortening the races, or something else, I think our sport is broke and needs fixing. What do you think?

Roger
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Considering the 3am start time, it's hard to blame them for not playing.
If nothing else, maybe the TD and promotors will work toward not getting into such a tough situation. They done the only thing they could do other than let fatigue determine the outcome in my opinion
 
MitchAlsup said:
Here is an idea:: Instead of a time clock per shot, have a time clock per race.

For instance, each pairing gets 0:59 hours on a table. The person with the most wins at the end of the hour wins. Table is granted to the next pairing at the first minute of the subsequent hour.

Race to 1 hour, not race to 7, 9, 11, 13 games.
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A match clock alone could lead to stalling by the guy who is ahead. A shot clock and a match clock might work in some situations, and so might a chess clock.

For the event mentioned by the OP, however, we don't really know whether slow play was a reason for how long the event lasted. It might have been too many players to finish more quickly, or bad flow-chart management by the tournament director (such as waiting until all matches in a given round are completed before starting any matches in the next round), or a bad format for such a large field, or ...

I do, however, share Roger's dislike for events that finish so late. When it is the norm for a regular, recurring event, expected late finishes can keep some people from even entering the events. And it keeps players, and however few spectators there might be, from staying around to watch the end of the event.

TV for this type of event? Nah. Streaming? Yes, that's possible, and late finishes interfere with watching streams as well.
 
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sfleinen said:
Ha! Looks like Holden Chin had a hard night. :D

Summary: I do agree with you, though, cleary. There are just some sports not cut out for TV. Pool is one of them. (Only diehard fans and players watch it. To anyone else, it's like watching someone play chess or bocce.) Even the Olympic sport of "curling" is more exciting to watch for the non-enthusiast than pool.

-Sean
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When it had the perfect storm in its favor,, alcohol and cigarettes sponsers ,, ESPN looking for anything from Backgammon to Turttle races to fill time slots Pool slid in for its share of the gold rush ,, even with that the Number of pro's would made good money was very limited , insert big TV contracts from the big sports and pools left for dead and will never see those days again ,,

1
 
cleary said:
Because this wasn't the world f*cking series it was a regional pool tournament. The only people watching the finals were the people playing it and the TD who's sleeping in the corner at 4am
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So, Roger says it's wrong and contributes to the smallness of pool, and your argument is that it's OK because it's too small to matter? That's called begging the question: Perhaps one reason a pro pool tournament like this is so small and unpopular is due to many small and poor decisions, including not even finishing the tournament.

I'm sure Roger wouldn't say this one decision in this one tournament is "what's wrong with pool." It's just another example of poor planning and decision-making that all add up to a bad reputation.
 
How much pool has been on TV anyways? I mean in the 25 years I have been playing I have witnessed more women than men, more trick shots than open tournaments, and I just do not understand everyone talking about how much 'TV' exposure will do to help the game. It isn't the Golden Ticket. Never has been. It is sad that the greatest boom to the billiard world was TCOM. A movie. Hard work is what is needed. But ask a pool player about that, it is easier to be a 'Pro' and not get paid than to work to fix all the problems. I have watched more billiards on youtube than I have ever seen on TV. I don't miss billiards on TV because it has NEVER been on TV. Maybe I am alone on my views, but reality is always a good thing to come back to.
 
Roger Long said:
I just read the report on the AZB home page where Oscar and Amar split 1st & 2nd place winnings in the Mezz West State Tour 10-ball tournament in Sacramento this past weekend. Although that might have been the merciful thing to do in a tournament where the second set of the final match wasn't going to begin until 3:00am on Monday morning, it does absolutely nothing to help the long-standing situation we've had with "pro" pool in America. ...
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Probably another double elimination tournament. That's the format that sadists use to torture sheep.

Here's a suggestion: when you're down to the money rounds go to single elimination. For example, when you have 8 on the losers' side and 4 on the winners', move to a 16-player single elimination chart with the winners all getting a bye the first round. Then maybe people get to go home before dawn.

Or, you can stick with your same old broken format.
 
If networks cut off the Super Bowl after the third quarter so that Everybody Loves Raymond could play in the normal time slot, there would be rioting and assaults at the network's office. Do the same to the Friday game between Derp and Herp local high schools and nobody would care.
The argument of the split being appropriate for a regional tournament is the same to me. It doesn't matter to anyone who isn't there in person watching or playing. If Shane and Dennis split the final at the Open, we can have this discussion.
 
cleary said:
Because this wasn't the world f*cking series it was a regional pool tournament. The only people watching the finals were the people playing it and the TD who's sleeping in the corner at 4am
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I see your point , but what if there are side bets on the rail? , and this wouldn't apply to California but if there were a calcutta it would matter.
 
Bob Jewett said:
Probably another double elimination tournament. That's the format that sadists use to torture sheep.

Here's a suggestion: when you're down to the money rounds go to single elimination. For example, when you have 8 on the losers' side and 4 on the winners', move to a 16-player single elimination chart with the winners all getting a bye the first round. Then maybe people get to go home before dawn.

Or, you can stick with your same old broken format.
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Good idea Bob. I'm with Roger on this topic. I hate it when the last two split. The problem, however, is in the management of the tournament causing a 3 am start time!!
 
Bob Jewett said:
Probably another double elimination tournament. That's the format that sadists use to torture sheep.

Here's a suggestion: when you're down to the money rounds go to single elimination. For example, when you have 8 on the losers' side and 4 on the winners', move to a 16-player single elimination chart with the winners all getting a bye the first round. Then maybe people get to go home before dawn.

Or, you can stick with your same old broken format.
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You might as well play longer races and play the whole tournament single elimination . I'd hate to go undefeated and then get knocked out playing single elimination.
 
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