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Interesting aiming system
- Thread starter Straightpool_99
- Start date
I recently played a very good shortstop (maybe even close to pro speed player) some 9-ball and was beaten rather convicingly. My 9 ball break has never been good and with the 9 on the spot it is pathetic. I was outbroken, and also outplayed in every other way. What a shotmaker this guy is, he made absolutely every ball he shot at and made extremely few errors too. He had really good fundamentals of course and I don't attribute his win to anything but being a superior player. Anyway after the game I asked him about how he aims (just making conversation:smile
and he told me that he uses this aiming system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5988W41mgcY&list=PLrwY8cvqupJxi_e2ltzWI4ZY2ae36ApU_
I can't remember seeing it discussed on the forum and it apparently works with english as well. Obviously as presented here it only works for certain angles, but with some corrections it may be really good. Using the contact point in this way makes it different from Mr. Van Boenings system I think? Anyone try it, and if so are you still using it?
It was on here a while back. I use something similar to apply english. Works with MY cue and my vision to compensate very well for squirt and swerve. Not exactly the way he uses it, but similar. His system, as you stated, works well for some shots, but not all.
I recently played a very good shortstop (maybe even close to pro speed player) some 9-ball and was beaten rather convicingly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5988W41mgcY&list=PLrwY8cvqupJxi_e2ltzWI4ZY2ae36ApU_
I can't remember seeing it discussed on the forum and it apparently works with english as well. Obviously as presented here it only works for certain angles, but with some corrections it may be really good. Using the contact point in this way makes it different from Mr. Van Boenings system I think? Anyone try it, and if so are you still using it?
Interesting. I think it might take under cutting out of the picture. But... I'd be interested how the english would work for longer shots.
Best to Y'a,
Rick
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Hey, it is a system and it looks like it may have some merit. I'm very happy with my system so I don't see the need to put much time into that system. I do plan to actually experiment with it a little. It may be something that is useful for short, easier shots, particularly where you want to apply english.
Believe me, I really don't want to start a fight by saying this, but I couldn't help but see some parallels with CTE. The parallel is in with the half tip which in a manner is what he is doing. Obviously, he was doing it in a different manner but it is a parallel. The other parallel is it can be described as a system. I believe any true systematic approach will offer the player an advantage. Neil uses both 90/90 and CTE. scottjen is an A player and uses SEE. SVB says he uses his cue tip. We know there are Professionals using systems to aim and play. I don't believe anybody plays 100% purely by feel. They may not have to consider their aiming process to the same degree as a lesser skilled player might but I am 100% convinced there is a thought process going on that leads them to their shot line. By definition, that is a system.
Believe me, I really don't want to start a fight by saying this, but I couldn't help but see some parallels with CTE. The parallel is in with the half tip which in a manner is what he is doing. Obviously, he was doing it in a different manner but it is a parallel. The other parallel is it can be described as a system. I believe any true systematic approach will offer the player an advantage. Neil uses both 90/90 and CTE. scottjen is an A player and uses SEE. SVB says he uses his cue tip. We know there are Professionals using systems to aim and play. I don't believe anybody plays 100% purely by feel. They may not have to consider their aiming process to the same degree as a lesser skilled player might but I am 100% convinced there is a thought process going on that leads them to their shot line. By definition, that is a system.
I learned aiming as a kid with a method very close to Dave Mullens Ultimate Aiming. Edge of the shaft at the contact point, then tuck and roll for sidespin. Its pretty accurate up until just past a half ball hit. From there I changed it, and added shaft aligments, and adjustments until I had a full range to a thin cut.
Now I aim by feel, but that "feel" is based on those pre stance alignments to the shot of what my cue should be pointed at and years of building those shot pictures in my brain. I stand behind the shot and judge what should be lined up, and my feet move into position accordingly. At that point I can bend into my shooting stance and Im lined up.
IMHO, that is the trick to aiming if there is one. Whether you start with ghost ball, cte, shaft aiming or whatever, its building a reference of shot pictures in your mind so that you can look at a shot, and figure out the alignment. But the caveat is that alignment should be done before you ever think about getting down on the shot.
Shane, Im sure, did something similar. He built that reference of images in his head until it became second nature.
The biggest problem with shaft aiming is variables in how people visualize things and how their stances are, to include head and eye position. I could come out with a video or picture book showing exactly how my cue lines up to reference points on the cb and ob. But unless you see things how I do, and align your head to the shot the exact same way that I do, those reference points might not work for you. Its the same problem some folks have about Shanes aiming method. There are variables unique to his brain and stance that make those shot pictures work for him. Might not work for other people.
Chuck
Now I aim by feel, but that "feel" is based on those pre stance alignments to the shot of what my cue should be pointed at and years of building those shot pictures in my brain. I stand behind the shot and judge what should be lined up, and my feet move into position accordingly. At that point I can bend into my shooting stance and Im lined up.
IMHO, that is the trick to aiming if there is one. Whether you start with ghost ball, cte, shaft aiming or whatever, its building a reference of shot pictures in your mind so that you can look at a shot, and figure out the alignment. But the caveat is that alignment should be done before you ever think about getting down on the shot.
Shane, Im sure, did something similar. He built that reference of images in his head until it became second nature.
The biggest problem with shaft aiming is variables in how people visualize things and how their stances are, to include head and eye position. I could come out with a video or picture book showing exactly how my cue lines up to reference points on the cb and ob. But unless you see things how I do, and align your head to the shot the exact same way that I do, those reference points might not work for you. Its the same problem some folks have about Shanes aiming method. There are variables unique to his brain and stance that make those shot pictures work for him. Might not work for other people.
Chuck
It doesnt share much in common with cte at all, other than it is a system.
Very few people say that they use no system, and the ones that do say it, are usually arguing semantics about what a system is.
It doesnt matter what you do to get to the shot line, as long as you end up on the shot line. Most of the arguments about aiming systems arent about pool, theyre about ego, and who is right/who is wrong. I honestly believe the pivot systems work for some folks based on how they see things and how their brain works, just like ghost ball works for some people, and shaft aiming works for others.
The bickering and bullshit that goes on FROM BOTH SIDES does nothing to further anything about the game.
Chuck
What happens when you have roughly a half ball hit? The contact point is going to be roughly a quarter of a ball inside the edge, so pointing the inside of the shaft at the contact point will lead to a thick hit. I've never been able to grasp or use stick aiming methods.
I think people who say they only use the shaft to aim either don't, or simply don't aim at the correct contact point. Over time they probably get a distorted view of where the actual contact point is.
I think people who say they only use the shaft to aim either don't, or simply don't aim at the correct contact point. Over time they probably get a distorted view of where the actual contact point is.
is ronnie o sullivan have aiming system,or he just feel the shot and experience ?
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Like I mentioned above, you find other alignments that fall true when you are using a system such as the Mullen system. IE shaft quarter to center ball, shaft edge to center ball, shaft edge to ball edge etc. Once you run out of ball to point at, which is cue edge to outside ball edge, you have to be able to use some judgement, and in comes ball edge overlaps and edge to edge contact, or whatever makes sense to you.
Its not fool proof, nothing is. No matter what anyone says. No single aiming system will work for every single person out there. You need to find what clicks for you and go from there. I can teach you probably 10-15 different ways a person could aim. One might click for one person and the rest are futile because of how their brain, eyes and stance work. And that is not even taking into account any of the other physics of the game such as throw, squirt etc.
Chuck
This is the WORST system I've ever seen, here's why:
If you aim the center CB to contact point you undercut.
Most people bridge near to their pivot point, so lets assume no squirt is involved, nor pivoting variation.
If one points their cue with left english, for a left to right cut, then pivots back to center CB, the cut angle is diminished, leading to further undercut.
If that isn't bad enough, when shooting left to right, he aligns through the left side of the tip, which moves the bridge even further right compared to aligning to where the tip actually hits the CB. Leading to an even thicker undercut hit if you pivot back to center CB.
He may be able to make a few shots by turning the OB significantly with outside english, but if he pivots from this aim to a gearing english, center ball or inside english aim, he'll miss by miles unless he's way off his pivot point and even then, only a small range of shots would work.
If you aim the center CB to contact point you undercut.
Most people bridge near to their pivot point, so lets assume no squirt is involved, nor pivoting variation.
If one points their cue with left english, for a left to right cut, then pivots back to center CB, the cut angle is diminished, leading to further undercut.
If that isn't bad enough, when shooting left to right, he aligns through the left side of the tip, which moves the bridge even further right compared to aligning to where the tip actually hits the CB. Leading to an even thicker undercut hit if you pivot back to center CB.
He may be able to make a few shots by turning the OB significantly with outside english, but if he pivots from this aim to a gearing english, center ball or inside english aim, he'll miss by miles unless he's way off his pivot point and even then, only a small range of shots would work.
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I'll make a diagram up for you SP99, to make it clearer.
Regarding pivoting back to center, it's a mechanism to check actual alignment, pretty much the same way Stan uses a pivot for gearing outside and some inside english shots... which is perfectly correct, if the bridge is close to the effective pivot point.
Hence, if you line up a shot with english, even by the so called parallel method, if you pivot back to CCB, you should be close to aligned to the firm stun shot angle for the pot.
Edit: Diagram now attached.
Note: This exaggerates the geometry, so that the lines can be seen more clearly, Just try it on the table! If you follow the directions clearly, it takes you to an extreme undercut.
Attachments
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Yes, I know that effect SP_99.
Have played wit the Z2 and don't have many problems with firm shots using BHE. The pure pivot point is around 15 inches, compared to my own 11.8mm cue with standard ferrule and shaft which is 12 inches. The Z2 leads to some effective pivot points which are awkwardly long imho.
In the video, the distance between the cue ball and the object ball was approx. 2 feet on every example shot. since the diameter of the tip plays a factor in establishing the half ball hit, it would seem to me that the further you get from this 2 foot distance, the more off the mark this aiming system becomes.
I suspect it would be difficult to use this system on long shots without making some sort of adjustment.
I suspect it would be difficult to use this system on long shots without making some sort of adjustment.
I recently played a very good shortstop (maybe even close to pro speed player) some 9-ball and was beaten rather convicingly
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5988W41mgcY&list=PLrwY8cvqupJxi_e2ltzWI4ZY2ae36ApU_
I can't remember seeing it discussed on the forum and it apparently works with english as well. Obviously as presented here it only works for certain angles, but with some corrections it may be really good. Using the contact point in this way makes it different from Mr. Van Boenings system I think? Anyone try it, and if so are you still using it?
I have been using this system for about 25 years and like it. I have also practiced with the See System and CTE/Pro1 both of which I use on occasion.
Training others to use the shaft system is a bit of a challenge, they can't seem to grasp the idea of shooting thru the QB like its not there.
For cuts outside of a half ball hit tip widths are used.
SVB uses this system or one very similar.
Have fun and thanks for posting.
John
kawawoky71
Registered
I tried this system and I can confirm that it works only for a few shots.
IE: for angles > 50 it doesn't work.
IE: for angles > 50 it doesn't work.
It's the worst I've seen too. I agree with CC.
I bought the tape once and sent it right back.
The best "system" I've seen is Marvin Chin's equal opposite parts. Also taught by Jimmy Reid . Both are geometrically correct systems .
The best tip-aiming system is probably Don Feeney's double the distance tip aiming system.
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If you simply look at where you tip if pointed (center and/or edges of it) when you correctly apply english, You will quickly see a pattern on shots if you use a consistent speed on shots. You can thereby quickly learn to use that as a reference when applying english instead of just guessing at the proper offset off your normal aim line.