Are there any top pros using the slip stroke today?
- Thread starter alstl
- Start date
pretty much a lost art
Pretty much a lost art but it is very handy when the cue ball is very close to or on the rail. A much more natural swing than other options.
The slipstroke is still effective for general play too. It takes time and effort to learn though so it is a casualty of our instant society. Also, the need for it isn't as great with the lightning fast equipment we play with and on today.
Hu
Pretty much a lost art but it is very handy when the cue ball is very close to or on the rail. A much more natural swing than other options.
The slipstroke is still effective for general play too. It takes time and effort to learn though so it is a casualty of our instant society. Also, the need for it isn't as great with the lightning fast equipment we play with and on today.
Hu
What's a slip stroke?
I was wondering the same thing. Any videos anywhere?
Different people have different definitions.
In my view a slip stroke happens when a player slides his hand back on the grip as it comes back for the final back stroke (in addition to some movement back of the cue stick), grips the cue in that new location of the grip hand and then brings the cue forward for the power stroke with no more slipping of the grip hand.
So far as is known, the slip stroke does not open up any kind of "amazing action" shot that cannot be achieved with the standard grip which does not move on the cue during the whole stroke. I think you can practice a slip stroke and get to where you can make all the usual shots with it but why would anyone want to add that complication to their game?
The only use I can think of for the slip stroke is if you are trying to fix a crooked stroke. When you slide your hand back on the stick, crookedness of the motion is more obvious. If you can learn to slide your hand back straight, maybe you will learn to stroke back straight.
You couldn't be more wrong. It's all about feeling the shot.
Sorry guys, dont get the definition of slip stroke even after watching the video.
Would u define a slip stroke like those wavvy filipino bicycle stroke like reyes or bustamante and a normal stroke like those snooker players with cueing parallel to the table ??
Just a little confused !!
Would u define a slip stroke like those wavvy filipino bicycle stroke like reyes or bustamante and a normal stroke like those snooker players with cueing parallel to the table ??
Just a little confused !!
why use a slip stroke?
Bob,
Asking why use a slip stroke is somewhat like asking why play pool. A few make money at it, most play for pleasure. Speaking for myself, it is worth developing a slip stroke purely for the pleasure of using it and keeping the stroke alive. It is handy anytime a punch or jab stroke is called for, you can still have your same backstroke motion. Seems very useful on long straight in shots too, at least for myself and several others up to shortstop level that were playing with it one day.
On the technical side, I think there may be a real advantage to the slip stroke because it effectively lengthens your cue shaft on the final forward stroke. Using any other stroke other than a slip stroke or stroke slip, letting go of the cue as we go forward, we carefully practice our stroking motion then change it up on the final forward stroke since we are now going to follow through several inches or more. Very very few people don't feel a little change on that final forward stroke. That change is in the big muscles that guide the cue.
I think there is a valid argument that the slip stroke on the final back stroke allows the tip to contact the cue ball while your grip hand and arm are still in the exact same range of motion as all of your practice strokes. With practice the final stroke can be exactly the same as all of your prior strokes.
The slip stroke may be a little better or a little worse than the other common strokes or the benefits and debits might cancel out and all strokes be equal in benefits and issues to be overcome. I could certainly debate either side of that discussion with plenty of rationale behind either side.
Ultimately most of us play pool because we enjoy learning and using the skills involved. Learning different strokes can be a part of that. Seems like the old school players had an arsenal of strokes at their disposal and when we say they used a certain stroke we always have to qualify the statement with "most of the time" or "almost always". If not somebody is almost certain to have a piece of video where another stroke was used.
No overwhelming reason I know of to use a slip stroke. However, other than time invested to learn it, I can't think of any overwhelming reason not to use it most of the time either.
Hu
Bob,
Asking why use a slip stroke is somewhat like asking why play pool. A few make money at it, most play for pleasure. Speaking for myself, it is worth developing a slip stroke purely for the pleasure of using it and keeping the stroke alive. It is handy anytime a punch or jab stroke is called for, you can still have your same backstroke motion. Seems very useful on long straight in shots too, at least for myself and several others up to shortstop level that were playing with it one day.
On the technical side, I think there may be a real advantage to the slip stroke because it effectively lengthens your cue shaft on the final forward stroke. Using any other stroke other than a slip stroke or stroke slip, letting go of the cue as we go forward, we carefully practice our stroking motion then change it up on the final forward stroke since we are now going to follow through several inches or more. Very very few people don't feel a little change on that final forward stroke. That change is in the big muscles that guide the cue.
I think there is a valid argument that the slip stroke on the final back stroke allows the tip to contact the cue ball while your grip hand and arm are still in the exact same range of motion as all of your practice strokes. With practice the final stroke can be exactly the same as all of your prior strokes.
The slip stroke may be a little better or a little worse than the other common strokes or the benefits and debits might cancel out and all strokes be equal in benefits and issues to be overcome. I could certainly debate either side of that discussion with plenty of rationale behind either side.
Ultimately most of us play pool because we enjoy learning and using the skills involved. Learning different strokes can be a part of that. Seems like the old school players had an arsenal of strokes at their disposal and when we say they used a certain stroke we always have to qualify the statement with "most of the time" or "almost always". If not somebody is almost certain to have a piece of video where another stroke was used.
No overwhelming reason I know of to use a slip stroke. However, other than time invested to learn it, I can't think of any overwhelming reason not to use it most of the time either.
Hu
My understanding of a slip stroke...
my understanding of it was that on the final stroke you let the cue slip into the CB.
This goes to the letting the weight of the cue do the work. There are several methods of accomplishing that, but as long as you're letting the weight of the cue do the work, you should be golden.
Jaden
my understanding of it was that on the final stroke you let the cue slip into the CB.
This goes to the letting the weight of the cue do the work. There are several methods of accomplishing that, but as long as you're letting the weight of the cue do the work, you should be golden.
Jaden
You know what I notice, but never heard or read anything about!
Mika Immonen, Justin Hall, etc... as well as many other pros doing a loop on their stroke. Everytime I see a player who do this on their stroke they have a very good rhythm and are very consistent shot makers.
I am the only one who notice this? Never heard or read anything on that.
Whats up with that looping stoke?
Mika Immonen, Justin Hall, etc... as well as many other pros doing a loop on their stroke. Everytime I see a player who do this on their stroke they have a very good rhythm and are very consistent shot makers.
I am the only one who notice this? Never heard or read anything on that.
Whats up with that looping stoke?
strokes
The classic slipstroke is as Bob describes, it happens on the back stroke before the final forward delivery to the cue ball. It can be as little as an inch or less or huge, five or six inches. Mostly people slip a couple inches which is plenty.
The looping elliptical or figure eight strokes avoid the stop and restart at each end of the stroke that a pure pendulum stroke has. Although the stop and start can occur in an instant there is a stop in a pure pendulum. Some prefer to avoid a complete stop. Again, each stroke has advantages and the players from the Philippines often use a looping stroke quite successfully.
The pendulum works for most and it is easy to teach and troubleshoot. One thing though, it works best when someone can get in a low stance. With a higher stance it is easy to get motion in the shoulder when attempting a pure pendulum. I am usually forced into a pretty high stance and that has led to experimentation with several of the less common strokes. So far it seems that all can deliver a cue tip to a cue ball. Seems to be a matter of whichever stroke someone prefers or develops as proven by the world class players with unusual strokes.
Hu
The classic slipstroke is as Bob describes, it happens on the back stroke before the final forward delivery to the cue ball. It can be as little as an inch or less or huge, five or six inches. Mostly people slip a couple inches which is plenty.
The looping elliptical or figure eight strokes avoid the stop and restart at each end of the stroke that a pure pendulum stroke has. Although the stop and start can occur in an instant there is a stop in a pure pendulum. Some prefer to avoid a complete stop. Again, each stroke has advantages and the players from the Philippines often use a looping stroke quite successfully.
The pendulum works for most and it is easy to teach and troubleshoot. One thing though, it works best when someone can get in a low stance. With a higher stance it is easy to get motion in the shoulder when attempting a pure pendulum. I am usually forced into a pretty high stance and that has led to experimentation with several of the less common strokes. So far it seems that all can deliver a cue tip to a cue ball. Seems to be a matter of whichever stroke someone prefers or develops as proven by the world class players with unusual strokes.
Hu
The bold blue above is what I was told to be a 'slip stroke' when I was very young by an 'old guy' & asked him about it. I still go to it for a few shots even today if I find myself missing a ball or two that I absolutely should not miss & don't immediately know why I missed. I think it straightens out any non straightness that may have infiltrated my stroke for whatever reason. Also, as you said about the other method, this also works quite well for those long very straight shots.
I think this is better than what seems to be the more commonly known 'slip stroke' with the 'slipping' going back because it is extremely difficult to take it back crooked & then 'throw' it straight. But with the slip going back one can still 'steer' it wrong going forward at least IMO.
There is a guy locally, that you may know, that slips going back 1 time, 2 times, & then again for delivery. His name is Karl. I think his method tells him he's going back straight as he can see it in the pre delivery slip strokes that he makes.
Anyway, good posting.
I hope you are well,
Rick
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Hu:
How're you doing, my friend? Punchin' any manhole covers with .50 BMG lately? Need to do some more of that, myself.
On topic, I'm afraid I have to agree with Bob, for only one reason -- boiling the stroke down to SIMPLICITY. You might remember that I was a big-time slip-stroke advocate, and even wrote a tutorial here on AZB:
Part 1 of 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2164385#post2164385
Part 2 of 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2164387#post2164387
I was *so* comfortable with the slip stroke -- and as per rigid definition, sliding backwards with the grip hand on the pull-back in preparation for a re-grip on the forward delivery of the cue -- that I even attempted it on a snooker table. I found that even with my proud highly-honed slip stroke, there was a bit of a "jarring" motion when the hand came to a stop and regripped the cue. This induced the tiniest bit of yaw on my forward delivery.
When you compare this to a stationary grip on the cue (however light), the stationary grip gives your hand time to make an intimate connection to the surface of the cue. With the slip stroke, you never achieve that. Granted, most of the time, you'll see the classic slip-strokers of yore using Irish linen-wrapped cues, which aid in the slippage, and the idea of an intimate connection to the surface of the cue never materializes, nor is it thought to be needed. Remember, though, those are also the days of relaxed equipment specs, so looser tables translate to a general relaxing of fundamentals.
Getting back to my snooker table experience, I just couldn't get the slip stroke to work. I even reduced my previous "big slip" (of about 6 inches) to only 1 or 2 inches, and even then, I was missing more shots than I cared to. This was especially prevalent on long potting (i.e. 9 foot or longer pots) to that little pocket with rounded corners.
I had to abandon the slip stroke, and focus on making that intimate connection to the surface of the cue. "Feeling the cue" become one with my hand and arm, instead of the cue being an "instrument" that I'm propelling at the cue ball.
What that turned out to be, was a return to boiled-down basics. Getting rid of extra (and in this case, extraneous) movement. Removing one extraneous moving part -- i.e. the hand slippage/movement on the cue. Once I did that, I found my potting success increased dramatically.
When I went back to a pool table, I found that my "focused return to basics" translated well, and I didn't lose any of my potting performance on the pool table. In fact, I was more comfortable with my ability to control the cue ball (which the slip/regrip phase of the slip stroke kinda/sorta interfered with).
One thing I found that I'll unconsciously pull out the slip stroke for, is really amped-up draw or stun shots. I'll surprise myself when the slip stroke just comes out and says, "Tada! I'm still here!"
-Sean
Uh oh. Controversy alert!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=VODQn8GtrMA#t=2m0s
Tor Lowry drops Willie Mosconi's name as a "classic slip-stroker"!
(Albeit in the notion of being able to seamlessly switch from a slip stroke to a jab stroke.)
-Sean <-- doing a John Belushi "Food Fight!" impression
slip stroke
Watch any match that Dennis Orcollo plays in. He uses a slip stroke at least 60 percent of the time. That probably means it works.
Watch any match that Dennis Orcollo plays in. He uses a slip stroke at least 60 percent of the time. That probably means it works.
Cowboy Jimmy Moore, Cicero Murphy, Johnny Ervolino immediately come to mind.
Watch any match that Dennis Orcollo plays in. He uses a slip stroke at least 60 percent of the time. That probably means it works.
Not a slip stroke. What Dennis does, is during his feather strokes (practice strokes), is that he'll sometimes incrementally reposition his hand, until his hand gets to its final desired position. But once he commits to delivering the cue, that hand position doesn't move -- not during the pull-back, nor during the forward stroke.
A slip stroke is, by definition, one in which the hand shifts position during the pull-back of the delivery stroke, and then re-grips in a further back position on the cue during the forward stroke.
-Sean