80/20

HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
 
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HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...


There is a big difference between Danny D's commentating today from just 3 or 4 years ago.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

:lol:


Oh back when Danny D. played, you weren't allowed to play safe.

And if you did, you might of gotten beaten up.


:poke:
 
Its not that bad

HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

Danny's game was One Pocket and he was one of the best. He played safe a lot in Nine Ball because he couldn't balls on the break, His commentary is just his way of keeping things interesting in the booth.
 
It's worth noting that a player often sells out after playing a shot than DD said he should have played safe on, particularly when he can't get position on the next ball even if he does pocket the OB.

IMHO his recommendation is usually based on how easy the "perfect, lock-up" safe is compared to difficulty of the shot. He always says that if the safe is as difficult as the shot, play the shot. But when you can hide the OB behind a wall and freeze the CB on another ball, it just makes sense to get BIH.

Another concern is that the commentators have no better view of the table than we do, so a lot of times the shot looks a lot harder than it really is.

I guess the other element in my thinking is that I really enjoy a good safety battle.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

The difference is what the players percentage is a lot of player like Shaw are 80 pct on just about anything they see ,, where he might have been 40 pct on the same shot
Pool has never been exciting to watch for 99.9 of the population
1
 
One of the things that irks me more than anything is people who say that today's players aren't aggressive. Most usually blame one foul rules for this, and say today's players are more apt to play safe.

Complete and utter BS.

Today's players could give yesterday's players the 7 in aggression. They fire at everything. If the ball can be made, they go for the shot. Usually when they do play safe, the main reason is position for the next ball is next to impossible.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

Danny did not play good nineball even when he played his best. There was something wrong with his thinking. I have probably watched him play a 1000 hours of 9 ball and others had the same opinion.

What he did wrong, and this was the opinion of even top players was, trying to control everything. Danny hated to let the cueball go as you have to sometimes in 9 ball. 9 ball can be a very forgiving game if you let it. You don't have to be perfect.

It doesn't matter if you move a ball or go too far and shoot it in a different pocket, you can still get out. Nine ball is not a hard game. If you bring straight pool thinking into 9 ball you may end up over-think everything.

As far as his safe play. Danny was a pretty aggressive player. Even in straight pool he may go for something because if things work out he may run all the way out. Risk and reward. One pocket forget about it. He would billiard balls, kiss balls in, bank, cut balls backwards. If you left him a shot he ran out. He could be very aggressive.

It is easy on the side lines to say the guy should play safe but if it was Danny at the table, believe me he wants to shoot. I remember sitting there and Danny was playing Rempy straight pool. Danny was on like a 102 ball run and needed about 9 to win.

The cue ball caught the tit on the side pocket and ended up long on the break shot. He should have played safe I think, he had a huge lead. Instead he shot it and missed and Rempy ran 117 and out. Danny may talk conservative but he didn't always play like that.

I think in his commentary he is trying to be educational with his comments. Pointing out what can be done. Also because of the current rules, like them or not you should use the rules to your own best advantage. He may be pointing that out as well. Or, he may just have had a glass of wine and is just rambling.
 
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HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

Danny will be 80 yrs. old in a little over a month. People don't develop more mental acuity and fearlessness as they age.

ONB
 
Old Nine Baller said:
Danny will be 80 yrs. old in a little over a month. People don't develop more mental acuity and fearlessness as they age.

ONB
Click to expand...
You may be right, this is his opinion looking at a table he would like to have ball in hand on. Not necessarily how he would think 40 years ago.
 
It's this darn 1 foul BIH crap. Make a ball and get out of line...play safe. Don't feel good about a 60/40 shot...play safe. 9 ball has become 1 hole with 6 pockets. Johnnyt
 
Today's players are not very aggressive and this is from growing up playing one-foul

HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

Danny played one-pocket and straight-pool very well, and he is safety oriented.

I flew into Phoenix and played him 9-Ball at the GOLDEN 8-BALL. I had some jet lag and couldn't pocket balls the way I normally do and instead got into "safety battles" with him.

Needless to say, he beat me the set, however, he got the real line on me and we never played again. I had an advantage on him because of my shot-making and breaking abilities. Later in my career I gave "safety oriented" players the "wild 6" and it was about a fair game on really tough equipment. On loose equipment they had no chance.

Today's players are not very aggressive and this is from growing up playing "one-foul". The players of my era were far more aggressive, especially in detecting and executing "2 Way Shots". In one foul you only see about 20% of a players knowledge in any given match. In "2 Foul" you'll see closer to 80% every match if it goes for a couple of hours. That's another example of an "80/20" scenario that we're seeing these days.
 
CJ Wiley said:
Danny played one-pocket and straight-pool very well, and he is safety oriented.

I flew into Phoenix and played him 9-Ball at the GOLDEN 8-BALL. I had some jet lag and couldn't pocket balls the way I normally do and instead got into "safety battles" with him.

Needless to say, he beat me the set, however, he got the real line on me and we never played again. I had an advantage on him because of my shot-making and breaking abilities. Later in my career I gave "safety oriented" players the "wild 6" and it was about a fair game on really tough equipment. On loose equipment they had no chance.

Today's players are not very aggressive and this is from growing up playing "one-foul". The players of my era were far more aggressive, especially in detecting and executing "2 Way Shots". In one foul you only see about 20% of a players knowledge in any given match. In "2 Foul" you'll see closer to 80% every match if it goes for a couple of hours. That's another example of an "80/20" scenario that we're seeing these days.
Click to expand...

When he was at the GOLDEN 8-BALL Danny was probably not at his best. Regardless, when he was at his best, he could not have beaten you.
 
HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

I know at my level, and playing others who are at my same speed, me missing an 80/20 shot will not have to be be real costly. But I do that against a top level player, there's a 95% chance I'll lose that game AND the next one. Indeed, firing at an 80/20 shot may not yield good enough odds in a major tournament.
 
macguy said:
Danny did not play good nineball even when he played his best. There was something wrong with his thinking. I have probably watched him play a 1000 hours of 9 ball and others had the same opinion.

What he did wrong, and this was the opinion of even top players was, trying to control everything. Danny hated to let the cueball go as you have to sometimes in 9 ball. 9 ball can be a very forgiving game if you let it. You don't have to be perfect.

It doesn't matter if you move a ball or go too far and shoot it in a different pocket, you can still get out. Nine ball is not a hard game. If you bring straight pool thinking into 9 ball you may end up over-think everything.

As far as his safe play. Danny was a pretty aggressive player. Even in straight pool he may go for something because if things work out he may run all the way out. Risk and reward. One pocket forget about it. He would billiard balls, kiss balls in, bank, cut balls backwards. If you left him a shot he ran out. He could be very aggressive.

It is easy on the side lines to say the guy should play safe but if it was Danny at the table, believe me he wants to shoot. I remember sitting there and Danny was playing Rempy straight pool. Danny was on like a 102 ball run and needed about 9 to win.

The cue ball caught the tit on the side pocket and ended up long on the break shot. He should have played safe I think, he had a huge lead. Instead he shot it and missed and Rempy ran 117 and out. Danny may talk conservative but he didn't always play like that.

I think in his commentary he is trying to be educational with his comments. Pointing out what can be done. Also because of the current rules, like them or not you should use the rules to your own best advantage. He may be pointing that out as well. Or, he may just have had a glass of wine and is just rambling.
Click to expand...

Very insightful post Macguy
 
HawaiianEye said:
I've been watching the Turning Stone for a couple days now with Danny D. in the booth with Al and there is something I noticed right off the bat and it has continued through the most recent match I watched with Shaw and Morra.

I never watched Danny D. play 9-ball, but if he played like he announces then I don't think I'd have enjoyed watching him play.

On almost every shot that isn't a "lock", he always says the guy should play a "safe". He NEVER recommends that anyone shoot a ball even if it is 80/20. If I can make a ball 80% of the time, I'm going for it. When things are closer to 50/50, I'll start thinking of "safes" as my FIRST option...not when shots are 80/20 or even 90/10. He keeps recommending safes when the odds of the safe are worse than making the shot.

That is why today's pool is so boring for most people. People are afraid to go for 80/20s.

Aloha.
Click to expand...

When the guy shooting next can run 4-5 racks on you if you miss that %20 shot, you may not want to shoot it either. Although I don't think any announcer would recommend a fairly easy shot over a safe unless the position to the next ball was also though or there were other issues with the rack.
 
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