Eight Ball On Break

[billy-ks]

I have a question I hope someone can answer. The game is 8 ball. the shooter breaks the rack and makes a couple of balls. What he doesn't realize is that one of the balls made was the 8 ball. He continues to shoot, makes a couple more balls and then he and his opponent realize they don't have an 8 ball. What is the ruling. I believe they rerack and start the game over. What do you say.

 

[Charlie Hustle]

I have a question I hope someone can answer. The game is 8 ball. the shooter breaks the rack and makes a couple of balls. What he doesn't realize is that one of the balls made was the 8 ball. He continues to shoot, makes a couple more balls and then he and his opponent realize they don't have an 8 ball. What is the ruling. I believe they rerack and start the game over. What do you say.

Correct. Rerack and start a new game. The odds of that actually happening are slim to none. :wink:

 

[Atlatlien]

8 on the break is not a win?

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Not if you continue to shoot and move or make another ball to pick your suit. And 8 off the break is usually not a win in a tourney. But pretty sure you know that one. The OP didn't specify whether this was a League game or Tourney.

The odds of that actually happening are slim to none

Slim, but can happen. I was reffing at the Canadian Westerns in Edmonton and it happened.

I gave them the choice of spotting the 8 and continue to play, seeing that the breaker did make another ball on his next shot, or re rack. The Captains discussed it and they re racked.

The only reason that I gave an option is, under the old rules, or older rules, and I don't know if this is enforced any longer, by continuing to shoot, you are acknowledging that the game is not over.

Under the old rules, scratch on the 8 and it was loss of game instead of BIH as it is now.

I did play a league game once where I scratched on the 8. My opponent took the cue ball out and placed it on the table. He acknowledged that the game was still in play, instead of my loss.

 

[Blue Hog ridr]

Not if you continue to shoot and by chance make another ball to pick your suit.

The odds of that actually happening are slim to none

Slim, but can happen. I was reffing at the Canadian Westerns in Edmonton and it happened.

I gave them the choice of spotting the 8 and continue to play, seeing that the breaker did make another ball on his next shot, or re rack. The Captains discussed it and they re racked.

The only reason that I gave an option is, under the old rules, or older rules, and I don't know if this is enforced any longer, by continuing to shoot, you are acknowledging that the game is not over.

Under the old rules, scratch on the 8 and it was loss of game instead of BIH as it is now.

I did play a league game where I scratched on the 8. My opponent took the cue ball out and placed it on the table. He acknowledged that the game was still in play, instead of my loss.

 

[Donny Lutz]

on break

8 on the break is not a win?

When I started playing more than 60 years ago, the 8-ball on the break was generally not a win. It became a win when coin-op tables were introduced, because it would cost two dimes to get the 8-ball back to spot up. It also sped up games = more money in the slot!

The 8 on the break being a win is not the World Standardized Rules, and I like that just fine...as I like anything that takes some luck out of the game.

 

[Diogenes]

I have a question I hope someone can answer. The game is 8 ball. the shooter breaks the rack and makes a couple of balls. What he doesn't realize is that one of the balls made was the 8 ball. He continues to shoot, makes a couple more balls and then he and his opponent realize they don't have an 8 ball. What is the ruling. I believe they rerack and start the game over. What do you say.

If it's league rules, I would call it a win... if not then I would call it a loss since the shooter continued to shoot. After all, aside from "league rules" dropping the 8 ball is not a win (or has that "official" rule changed)? Now with that being said...
What would I do? I would try to get into a money match with either of the two shooters who didn't notice that the 8 ball dropped... Because they either have had too much to drink, and/or there is some distracting cleavage somewhere close by.
The very first thing that I do after dropping a ball on a successful break, is to assess the easiest choice of high/low, then evaluate the position of the 8 ball and choose a preferred route to get there... adding how (and when) to open up any clusters that may need to be broken up along the way.

Only once in my entire 47 years (off and on) of shooting 8 ball can I ever remember overlooking an object ball. It wasn't the 8... I thought that I had run all of my balls and just after I dropped the 8... I asked myself... "Where in the hell did that 4 ball come from?"... I was playing a tournament and we were "hill-hill", so it cost me both the game and the match. I remember hearing my opponent ask, "Did he just drop the 8 ball?" and someone replied back, "Yea, I guess he's color blind".
No one is perfect, and in casual rotation games it does happen (once in a blue moon) that your brain will become so consumed with the money ball that you overlook a lower numbered ball that is still sitting on the table... but it's just hard for me to imagine shooting any game that has a specific money ball without knowing "exactly where that sucker is at all times during the game.
And if I ever do... every member on AZB is allowed to give me a swift kick in the ass.

Sorry that I can't type this using the "pool-hall vernacular"... you get banned around here for talking like a real pool player these days... but that's a whole other thread (and it's getting really crowded in there). Or do I owe someone an apology?

 

[StuartTKelley]

I have a question I hope someone can answer. The game is 8 ball. the shooter breaks the rack and makes a couple of balls. What he doesn't realize is that one of the balls made was the 8 ball. He continues to shoot, makes a couple more balls and then he and his opponent realize they don't have an 8 ball. What is the ruling. I believe they rerack and start the game over. What do you say.

I say if you allow your opponent to continue and you realize they haven't noticed that the 8 went in then your integrity is in question. If you're gambling and using those rules then I understand.

 

[Atlatlien]

Not if you continue to shoot and move or make another ball to pick your suit. And 8 off the break is usually not a win in a tourney. But pretty sure you know that one. The OP didn't specify whether this was a League game or Tourney.

When I started playing more than 60 years ago, the 8-ball on the break was generally not a win. It became a win when coin-op tables were introduced, because it would cost two dimes to get the 8-ball back to spot up. It also sped up games = more money in the slot!

The 8 on the break being a win is not the World Standardized Rules, and I like that just fine...as I like anything that takes some luck out of the game.

Now that I think of it, it does make sense that it wouldn't be a win, since at the break you haven't chosen a suit and a win in 8 ball is sinking the 8 after completing your suit.

I'm just used to UPA and APA league rules where it is a win. I got a patch for it yesterday in fact LOL

Thanks for the info, guys :thumbup:

 

[Diogenes]

Now that I think of it, it does make sense that it wouldn't be a win, since at the break you haven't chosen a suit and a win in 8 ball is sinking the 8 after completing your suit.

I'm just used to UPA and APA league rules where it is a win. I got a patch for it yesterday in fact LOL

Thanks for the info, guys :thumbup:

YOU GET PATCHES???
UPA membership says that as part of your membership fee you get a UPA patch. I don't know of a single person in our area in the past year who has gotten their patch after joining. I asked the LO about it and he told me... "I have some here in my case". I was there that night for another 2 hours... over 30 minutes after the LO had left. Still didn't get a patch and don't know anyone who has. I guess that he sells them in the parking lot or something. WHERE'S MY PATCH UPA!!!
Sorry about that... might be a part of why I quit... local mismanagement.

Now... back to the subject of "Who stole the damn 8 ball off of the table?" OH... LOOK... I think that they gave us two extra 4 balls instead. I thought that last rack looked weird.

 

[dabarbr]

If you're playing that the eight on the break is a win and you can prove that it did fall on the break it was game over as soon as it fell. What happens after that has no meaning.

 

[pt109]

If you're playing that the eight on the break is a win and you can prove that it did fall on the break it was game over as soon as it fell. What happens after that has no meaning.

Pretty tough to prove if there is no video....
...the other guy can say maybe you made it after the break for loss of game.
I think rerack is best.

I doubt if you ever made an 8-ball that you weren't aware of.....
...I know you came third in Reno once with a field of champions.

How can someone shoot a ball at 8-ball and not know where the 8 is?
....he probably can't spell 'run-out' pattern.

 

[dabarbr]

Pretty tough to prove if there is no video....
...the other guy can say maybe you made it after the break for loss of game.
I think rerack is best.

I doubt if you ever made an 8-ball that you weren't aware of.....
...I know you came third in Reno once with a field of champions.

How can someone shoot a ball at 8-ball and not know where the 8 is?
....he probably can't spell 'run-out' pattern.

You're absolutely correct about trying to prove it but sometimes it's worth a try because it's also hard to disprove. Re-rack is what most likely will happen.

 

[TheMadScientist]

It could be simple to prove... Just look in the side of the table...

In most cases 8ball on the break isn't a win and you would rebreak.

 

[Push&Pool]

I have a question I hope someone can answer. The game is 8 ball. the shooter breaks the rack and makes a couple of balls. What he doesn't realize is that one of the balls made was the 8 ball. He continues to shoot, makes a couple more balls and then he and his opponent realize they don't have an 8 ball. What is the ruling. I believe they rerack and start the game over. What do you say.

Depends on the rules. I have no idea if it would be allowed to spot the 8-ball after those additional shots, so maybe re-rack in case you're playing under the "8 ball on the break is spotted" rule. If 8 on the break is a win, I think victory for the player who pocketed it could still be proclaimed if he didn't scratch on the break.

Our regional rules: 8 ball + scratch = loss, 8 ball only = win, 8 ball + another colored ball = not sure anymore LOL

 

[pt109]

Our regional rules: 8 ball + scratch = loss, 8 ball only = win, 8 ball + another colored ball = not sure anymore LOL

Good old bar rules....
If a man told me I have to make the 8-ball ALONE on the break to win....
...I'd put my cue back in the case.

 

[Jaden]

What rules are you talking about???

Not if you continue to shoot and move or make another ball to pick your suit. And 8 off the break is usually not a win in a tourney. But pretty sure you know that one. The OP didn't specify whether this was a League game or Tourney.



Slim, but can happen. I was reffing at the Canadian Westerns in Edmonton and it happened.

I gave them the choice of spotting the 8 and continue to play, seeing that the breaker did make another ball on his next shot, or re rack. The Captains discussed it and they re racked.

The only reason that I gave an option is, under the old rules, or older rules, and I don't know if this is enforced any longer, by continuing to shoot, you are acknowledging that the game is not over.

Under the old rules, scratch on the 8 and it was loss of game instead of BIH as it is now.

I did play a league game once where I scratched on the 8. My opponent took the cue ball out and placed it on the table. He acknowledged that the game was still in play, instead of my loss.

Most times an 8 on the break is a win and in BCA rules, a scratch on the 8 has never been a loss of game unless you also make the 8 and then it always has been and still is a loss of game.

Jaden

 

[Jaden]

Other than the eight ball and another colored ball...

Good old bar rules....
If a man told me I have to make the 8-ball ALONE on the break to win....
...I'd put my cue back in the case.

PT, those are the BCA 8 ball rules. If you scratch on the 8 and it remains on the table, it is bih, if you make the eight and scratch, it is loss of game.

Jaden

 

[Dockter]

Every 8 ball league I play 8 ball on the break is either spotted or reracked depending on how the breaker wants it. 8 ball on the break and scratch is either spotted or reracked depending on how the non breaker wants it and he/she gets the break.

I did play a small town league awhile back where 8 on the break was a win 8 and cb on the break was a loss. No bih, every foul can be cb in "kitchen."

In the scenerio stated I have no idea what you could do other than rerack and start over unless both players agree to spotting it and letting it play out. I have no idea how someone wouldn't notice the 8 ball being the ball down.

 

[Jaden]

If eight on the break is a win..

Every 8 ball league I play 8 ball on the break is either spotted or reracked depending on how the breaker wants it. 8 ball on the break and scratch is either spotted or reracked depending on how the non breaker wants it and he/she gets the break.

I did play a small town league awhile back where 8 on the break was a win 8 and cb on the break was a loss. No bih, every foul can be cb in "kitchen."

In the scenerio stated I have no idea what you could do other than rerack and start over unless both players agree to spotting it and letting it play out. I have no idea how someone wouldn't notice the 8 ball being the ball down.

If the 8 on the break is a win by the rules played, then the player that made it won. If it is supposed to be spotted, then the rack should be played over IMO.

Jaden