How Would You Play This Layout?

[Pidge]

The bank is the shot. I don't see any safes that could be called good, unless you somehow managed to hook me under a ball.

I know of 10 or more "C" players that can nail that bank everytime. This is also why I think ABCD ratings are horrible for judging speed.

Like I said in my earlier post, the only safe that could be called good and snookered the other guy was really thin of the 6, clipping the 6 towards the 8 and going around table to land beneath the 8. Even if you get BIH the 6 is tied up and another safe wouldn't be as easy as the one you just performed even with BIH. The bank is the shot to go for if you can run the rest out. But if you can't all you are doing is leaving less balls on the table to play safe behind.

 

[Bambu]

I didn't say I'd be the favorite of the entire layout. Just the bank shot. And of course not 10/10 on the bank. But better than 50% on the bank.

I'm weighing my odds of singularly banking the ball (I'll estimate them at 6/10) to playing a safe and winning the safety battle by pocketing the 6 before my opponent does. I put that at 50/50.

That's the thing. If you don't feel good about your chances of running out, and there is a standard, viable safety available....you play safe.

Not sure why you say winning a safety battle would involve pocketing the 6 first.

 

[iusedtoberich]

That's the thing. If you don't feel good about your chances of running out, and there is a standard, viable safety available....you play safe.

Not sure why you say winning a safety battle would involve pocketing the 6 first.

By that logic, if all the balls are open from the 1 to the 9 after the break, should I bunt the 1 ball safe? Or try to get out?

I'm saying my current speed, anytime there are 4 balls on the table I'm roughly 50% to get out. So if there are 6, should I automatically play safe and not attempt the out? Should I only go for the out when there are 2 balls left, and bunt balls safe until that point?

That's the logic a C player (me) would use in this case. If I'm successful with the safe, I STILL have to eventually run the 6, 7, 8, 9 balls. So I'm STILL a roughly 50% favorite to get out with 4 balls on the table.

If I play the bank, the odds are the same (on the ENTIRE out).

Now, if Im gambling with a better player, he will win the safety battle most likely. So my best chance to win the entire game is the bank.

Anyway I look at it, as a C+ player, I'm going for the bank.

At a high level of play, lets say A vs A player, I like the bank even more.

My two cents

 

[Colin Colenso]

Right now he has the chance to leave his opponent a long combo(preferably the more balls on the rail the better). He may not get a better opportunity to play as good of a safe.

Secondly, if I was playing with friends with nothing to lose, , of course I would go for the bank. The ONB layouts assume tournament play is in effect.

I can't imagine any pro or semi-pro not taking on the bank. Even if you think you're only 30% of making the bank, then I'd assume your opponent is not confident of making a 4 ball out, so have a go and you'll likely leave it not ideal for a clean up.

If your opponent is strong, you're nuts not to have a go while you have a chance at an out.

This is an ideal opportunity against a weak player to have a semi-shot-to-nothing.... meaning, it's a chance to go out, without leaving a likely easy out for an incoming average player.

A safety is just begging for a chance that may not come, or thinking that one can win by always relying on the opponent's incompetence.

 

[Bambu]

By that logic, if all the balls are open from the 1 to the 9 after the break, should I bunt the 1 ball safe? Or try to get out?

I'm saying my current speed, anytime there are 4 balls on the table I'm roughly 50% to get out. So if there are 6, should I automatically play safe and not attempt the out? Should I only go for the out when there are 2 balls left, and bunt balls safe until that point?

That's the logic a C player (me) would use in this case. If I'm successful with the safe, I STILL have to eventually run the 6, 7, 8, 9 balls. So I'm STILL a roughly 50% favorite to get out with 4 balls on the table.

If I play the bank, the odds are the same (on the ENTIRE out).

Now, if Im gambling with a better player, he will win the safety battle most likely. So my best chance to win the entire game is the bank.

Anyway I look at it, as a C+ player, I'm going for the bank.

At a high level of play, lets say A vs A player, I like the bank even more.

My two cents

To me, the odds change when you have to get position off of another ball. So all that logic about being out half the time with such and such balls left goes out the window.

If you execute that safety properly, you would be putting your opponent in a compromising position. Not too many players would want to shoot long distance combos.

 

[Bambu]

I can't imagine any pro or semi-pro not taking on the bank. Even if you think you're only 30% of making the bank, then I'd assume your opponent is not confident of making a 4 ball out, so have a go and you'll likely leave it not ideal for a clean up.

If your opponent is strong, you're nuts not to have a go while you have a chance at an out.

This is an ideal opportunity against a weak player to have a semi-shot-to-nothing.... meaning, it's a chance to go out, without leaving a likely easy out for an incoming average player.

A safety is just begging for a chance that may not come, or thinking that one can win by always relying on the opponent's incompetence.

I agree, the safety is a weak play for a pro or semi pro. (As Pidge said early on.)
As I said earlier, I am a B+ player. I like my chances on leaving you a long combo. If I can get the cue ball on the short rail, the return safety would be tough.

I like that better than a tough bank AND having to get touchy position off of another ball.
I don't know why you think that's so crazy.

 

[TATE]

I just shot it on my table - banking the six, a medium slow follow shot deflects off the 8, brings the cue ball back out and leaves the 8 near the rail - perfect. This is the shot I invite anybody to try it yourself.

Previously I said center ball firm but the 8 moves too much and the cue ball does not roll out far enough.

 

[alstl]

No C player I know is making this bank 10/10, and even if they did, no C player I know is running the other 3 balls 10/10 either.

If you are unable to finish the layout it is better to play safe and tempt your opponent into taking a risky shot.

That said, I do like the bank on this layout and its the shot I would most likely take on for the money. But if my opponent was weak, I'd play the thin snick and go for BIH. Even if your opponent doesn't give away BIH and contacts the 6 they're just set you up to play another safe with the balls wide open and an easier run out.

The issue isn't whether a C player could make the bank 100% of the time. Could the same C player execute the safety 100% of the time and if he does can he win the subsequent safety battle? The applies not just to C players but to everybody.

And, for the record, I enjoyed ONB's "what would you play in this layout" threads and it is unfortunate he got himself involved in SJD's narcissistic thread and is now banned. I didn't always agree with ONB but I enjoyed his scenarios.

 

[Bambu]

Someone get those 2 old coots a table! SJD vs. ONB

 

[alstl]

Someone get those 2 old coots a table! SJD vs. ONB

ONB at least contributed once in a while with one of these scenarios. I didn't even realize SJD had been banned - he only seems to show up to argue which I find tedious.

 

[Mikjary]

I like the outside draw to get the cue ball moving away from the rail and into position for the seven ball, even off of the 8. The 8 ball will hit the rail with reverse spin and want to come across the table instead of towards the 7 ball.

The high inside could send the 8 ball at the 7 ball and move it or tie up something. The cue ball may kill on the rail off of the 8 ball leaving a tough shot on the 7 ball.

Best,
Mike

 

[Bambu]

ONB at least contributed once in a while with one of these scenarios. I didn't even realize SJD had been banned - he only seems to show up to argue which I find tedious.

Personally, I like both of them. But I hear you, alstl.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Do you people actually play safe here? Unbelievable.

 

[CJ Wiley]

As a rule, I won't shoot a 70% shot with a 70% chance of getting a shot

You are shooting the 6 ball. What's your choice?


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There is another consideration "pj" (pool joker) , and it may be the one I'd choose against a top level player. The bank is a good, aggressive choice, it just depends on your skill level and the odds of getting shape. As a rule, I won't shoot a 70% shot with a 70% chance of getting shape on the next ball.

This would create a success rate of under 50%, which is not prudent in a critical position (let's say a Hill/Hill game). The chances of leaving a tough shot if the bank is missed is very slim. It would almost be a "due or die" scenario.

Thinning the right side of the 6 Ball is risky, and I may not want to risk leaving a dead combination, or an easy safety retaliation from my opponent (he may be able to slow roll the 6 Ball past the 8 and really lock me up, frozen on the 8 Ball).

Line up the center cue ball to the left edge of the object ball, then pivot two TIPs to the left (using your back hand)......then play the object ball to the diamond between the side and corner pocket with speed to land the object ball on the opposite end rail

When you do this it will kick the 8 Ball into the 7 Ball and hopefully to the end rail opposite the 6 Ball. This leaves a much more difficult shot for your opponent.

This may seem advanced, however, I would start out in this position and play anyone in the world as long as they would bet on it.

 

[DAVE_M]

Do you people actually play safe here? Unbelievable.

Why is it unbelievable? It's an easy bank and a difficult safe. Pushing the cue ball into the six and trying to freeze them to the rail is something a beginner would do.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I just tried 3 different ways to bank the ball and get position. Again, I'm a C+ maybe B- on my best days player. I made the bank every single attempt except the first attempt. I did not practice before shooting the video.

Apologies in advance! My camera went black and the picture is black from 1:50 to 3:55. Please fast forward that section.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjwUXog7fY&feature=youtu.be

 

[Ron Swanson]

Why is it unbelievable? It's an easy bank and a difficult safe. Pushing the cue ball into the six and trying to freeze them to the rail is something a beginner would do.

Can't you read?

 

[PoolBoy1]

I would honestly love to see my opponent try to play safe here. No matter what he does, he can't hook me and he's just as likely to sell me a shot or a safe as he is to leave me with something difficult.

Ya can't win every hand. If a shot can't be made with some confidence, play safe. Make the other guy beat ya not yourself.

 

[Bambu]

Can't you read?

And your run out percentage from here would be? And your level?

 

[RichSchultz]

what about soft shot with low left, leaving cue ball behind 8 with no view of 6 and no real combo?