John Schmidt's and Corey Deuel's comments on aiming systems

[lfigueroa]

Lou, do you really have to hijack someone's thread with this kind of BS. Please grow up or go somewhere else! :angry:

lol, you gotta be joking.

Jump in your Way Back Machine and look at look the original post -- it was PSA, and me providing the interview transcript, that got this rolling 100+ posts ago. If anyone should back their tuchas out of this it's you.

Lou Figueroa

 

[BeiberLvr]

If someone can not handle long sessions, that is conditioning and not style of play that is coming into play.

Also, there is a difference in 9 ball and 14.1 and 8 ball. My point of view is always 8 ball or 14.1 not 9 ball.

My point is that CJ does not not have the holy grail on how to play pool like everyone thinks.

CJ has found what works for him but is not the end all too how to shoot or play pool.

One may choose his style now, but this does not mean one will stick to it. You will never hear from those that tried it and didn't like it.

I can spin the ball whenever all day long and never get tired or stressed. Why because for three years straight I did over 2,000 hours of practice and play using any type of spin from all kinds of shooting positions. It has paid off. I have people watch be run balls cause they never see anyone move the ball around like I do.

I can be at the table for 3 hours plus and walk away not tired or stressed from moving the ball around. My stress comes from bad play, unforced errors, stupid mistakes and not from my style of play.

CJ experiences are his and it is a bad thing to assume that one's experiences apply to all.

I tried it, and didn't like it.

Post a video please. I'd love to see this amazing cue ball control of yours you speak of.

 

[Mitchxout]

Just out of curiosity, how many times have YOU played against Mike Segal Mitch?

It's S.i.g.e.l. Do know what a fallacious argument is?

 

[CJ Wiley]

Most players are unwilling to experiment like this, however, children love creativity

Greg,

I hear You & basically agree with most of what you say here.

I don't want to & can't speak for CJ.

But... TO ME, CJ is not talking about physical fatigue of the player. To me, He's talking about the fatigue of the player's game.

Hey, in a long race the temperature & humidity can change & the table conditions can change & swerve can change. To me, CJ is talking about all the variables, 'calculations', adjustments etc. with which that type of player has to keep up with & maintain in order to not mis later in a long match what they did not mis earlier in a long match.

To me, I think CJ believes that the TOI style is more consistent over the long haul & more the same near the end as it is at the start.

That does not mean that Mike Segel can not beat CJ in a long race. But...it might depend on the timing of a cold front coming through.

Best 2 You & ALL,
Rick

That's right Rick, as you know I share what I've learned through thousands of hours of high dollar matches, Pro tournaments, and experiences with other champion players. When I was on the road gambling for a living there were no excuses, we HAD to win. My road partners all used their own version of TOI (or TOO), and it enabled us to win against every "home town champion," and often give them an incredible handicap.

The last three years I was on the road, we won over $900,000, which led me to be honored as one of the top three money players of the 20th Century (with Efren Reyes, and Earl Strickland) in Billiard Digest....this was all because of my system of play, the one I've now shared with a plethora of pocket billiard players.

TOI is far more than just a conscious system, it's a way to train your subconscious to develop a feel for the Game, and a way to fall into what we like to call "The Zone".
This is not something that we "figure out," it's something we must experience for ourselves. Everyone will create their own style of TOI, or TOO, I gave over 200 hours of lessons last year and no two student processed TOI the same - I merely showed and explained the "TOI MODEL," and then assisted them in developing their own style.

I was talking to someone tonight at Rusty's Billiards at a tournament who has a young boy. He had him practice for a couple of hours ONLY using the inside of the cue-ball and was raving about his improvement. It's not magic, it's simply making yourself do what's not natural. Most players are unwilling to experiment like this, however, children love to be creative and experimentation is fun and they are enthusiastic about it.

One very wise man said "to find the Kingdom, we must first become as children" - I paraphrase, however the point is the critical to develop wisdom - in pool, and in life.

 

[sfleinen]

[...]
It has paid off. I have people watch be run balls cause they never see anyone move the ball around like I do.
[...]

I tried it, and didn't like it.

Post a video please. I'd love to see this amazing cue ball control of yours you speak of.

Whenever someone brags about "moving the cue ball around" in 14.1, it's a big "tell" that he doesn't know how to play the game.

Some of the most entertaining attempts you'll see at a 14.1 Challenge are when a pure 9-baller has a go at it, and you see herculean cue ball movement all over the table trying to get on the next shot. It's like, "let's see how he gets on the break ball now..."

-Sean

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hi CJ,

I know you started playing very young. I started at 13.

I decided very quickly to intentionally hit the outside of the cue ball.

Soon after, I started intentionally hitting the inside of the cue ball.

From then on I hit what ever side I wanted to intentionally hit depending on what I wanted to do.

PJ has already accused me of perpetuating a marketing myth, when in another thread, I said that I do not like walking a tightrope when I stated that I do not like trying to hit the exact center of the cue ball unless I have to do so.

So...I guess you should be prepared for that margin for error argument to pop up again.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS It's pretty easy to consistently hit the exact center of the cue ball...

in a Video Game. But Video Games are not real life.

 

[CJ Wiley]

This Post is directed at those with experience involving other sports/games

Hi CJ,

I know you started playing very young. I started at 13.

I decided very quickly to intentionally hit the outside of the cue ball.

Soon after, I started intentionally hitting the inside of the cue ball.

From then on I hit what ever side I wanted to intentionally hit depending on what I wanted to do.

PJ has already accused me of perpetuating a marketing myth, when in another thread, I said that I do not like walking a tightrope when I stated that I do not like trying to hit the exact center of the cue ball unless I have to do so.

So...I guess you should be prepared for that margin for error argument to pop up again.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

PS It's pretty easy to consistently hit the exact center of the cue ball...

in a Video Game. But Video Games are not real life.

Anyone reading this that doesn't have a background with other sports/games will not pick up the deeper meaning. It's about creating zones, increasing margin of error and how TOI develops this at an subconscious level.

Rick, please read the following with an open mind, it will serve as a bridge from other sports/games directly to pool, only in a miniature version.

At a young age we are programmed to see balls curve, and/or drop from gravity. Have you ever thrown a perfectly straight baseball? How about kick a perfectly straight soccer ball? .....how about a perfectly straight Tennis ball? Basketball? Golf Ball? Our minds are programmed from an early age to see balls move off the straight line, either by spin, deflection, or gravity.

In using this natural phenomenon golfers learn to "aim" to the right side of the fairway (or green) and draw the ball towards the center (or left side and fade the ball to center).

Baseball pitchers "aim" to one side of the plate and curve the ball towards the center.

Tennis players "aim" to the right side of the service box and slice the ball towards center,or "aim" 6 ft. over the net and force the ball down to 3 ft. using top-spin.

Those of you that are using TOI or went through the 3 hours of training will know how it relates to what I just mentioned. We don't try to hit the cue ball on a perfectly straight line, we align to the the inside of the pocket and use TOI to force it into the center (the 3 Part Pocket system is a technique that must be seen, explained and demonstrated on a real pool table). <------click link for more

Those of you that haven't put in the necessary time with the TOI Technique may not understand how this is done - it's okay, we all have to learn it from someone, the good news it only takes a few hours. I was fortunate to be exposed and develop TOI in my teenage years.

Rick, I can explain this more in vivid detail, however, I think it's best to let you read, process and digest the information. I'll be glad to answer any questions and/or free free to PM me if you want privacy. Either way is fine with me, anytime, any day.

 

[ENGLISH!]

CJ,

Is that an Automated Response System Reply?

Or did you simply forget that TOI has been in my toolbox for over a year.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

 

[cookie man]

Whenever someone brags about "moving the cue ball around" in 14.1, it's a big "tell" that he doesn't know how to play the game.

Some of the most entertaining attempts you'll see at a 14.1 Challenge are when a pure 9-baller has a go at it, and you see herculean cue ball movement all over the table trying to get on the next shot. It's like, "let's see how he gets on the break ball now..."

-Sean

My break ball is always straight in, like a true nine baller,lol. But I am learning straight pool, slowly but surely.

 

[CJ Wiley]

(I meant for a few days with practice, and didn't clarify -my mistake).

CJ,

Is that an Automated Response System Reply?

Or did you simply forget that TOI has been in my toolbox for over a year.

Best 2 Ya,
Rick

A year is a very short period of time to understand the deepest levels - TOI takes a few weeks to learn, and many years to master because there are several levels.

That's why I recommended to read, process, and digest the information (I meant for a few days practice on a table, and didn't clarify - my mistake). Your next level of TOI is close, however, the top level is still a few miles ahead, I'm offering you a proven short-cut.

TOI isn't simply a tool to take out when necessary, it has benefits that come in levels of understanding which do require table time, a deep understanding, and commitment.

 

[BeiberLvr]

My break ball is always straight in, like a true nine baller,lol. But I am learning straight pool, slowly but surely.

At least you can get to the break ball lol

 

[Mikjary]

A year is a very short period of time to understand the deepest levels - TOI takes a few weeks to learn, and many years to master because there are several levels.

That's why I recommended to read, process, and digest the information (I meant for a few days practice on a table, and didn't clarify - my mistake). Your next level of TOI is close, however, the top level is still a few miles ahead, I'm offering you a proven short-cut.

TOI isn't simply a tool to take out when necessary, it has benefits that come in levels of understanding which do require table time, a deep understanding, and commitment.

I'm still bouncing back and forth with a 100% inside alignment or when I need it. I have to get more confident with the pivot to the outside. It's as good as lining up with outside normally, but it just needs more time.

Changes in table conditions take a little while to figure out, but doable. I went to a harder tip and that helped quite a bit with consistency.

I've shown TOI to a couple of guys I play occasionally. They've been on plateaus and are frustrated with their rotation game. I was spotting one guy the 8 ball and now I spot him the 7 ball, so he's all ears!

The other guy uses no inside spin, at all. He freaked when I showed him. He may even quit the game, he said. :grin-square:

Best,
Mike

 

[AtLarge]

This thread is a good example of the damage that can be done, in terms of the future use of a thread, when the moderators remove posts from a thread.

The list of threads in the Aiming Conversation forum shows this thread as having 2011 "Replies" (before I started writing this post). Yet the last post in the thread (before I started writing this post) was #1886. I imagine that means about 125 posts have been removed from this thread.

When that is done, some of the references to prior posts by post number are no longer accurate. And sometimes clicking on the swooping down arrow next to the poster's name (the "View Post" arrow) in a quoted post no longer takes you to the original location of that quoted post.

This is another reason, in addition to any censorship concerns one might have, for lamenting the removal of posts. Perhaps if the moderators feel a need to delete a post, they could insert some sort of dummy post (e.g., "Deleted by Moderator") in its place so that the post numbering and "View Post" arrow function remain accurate.

 

[(((Satori)))]

I would bet that a large number of the posts removed were JB's upon his "request" for whatever reason.

That's a weird deal. What is up with that?

 

[Chrippa]

A year is a very short period of time to understand the deepest levels - TOI takes a few weeks to learn, and many years to master because there are several levels.

That's why I recommended to read, process, and digest the information (I meant for a few days practice on a table, and didn't clarify - my mistake). Your next level of TOI is close, however, the top level is still a few miles ahead, I'm offering you a proven short-cut.

TOI isn't simply a tool to take out when necessary, it has benefits that come in levels of understanding which do require table time, a deep understanding, and commitment.

Thanks CJ,

It grows on you, and when you open up you will see that you had the knowledge already imo. Step by step.

I chose to open up and follow freely, the opposite is to be forced.

Pull, don´t push, Aikido is in the mind also. When you add something it´s positive, when you detract it´s negative. Let the target pull you, relax and when you feel it it will "tingle".

In this case, you add angle using your tip, you will feel it when it´s right.

If the goal is clear the "angle" will follow.

When you are feeling down, you want to feel good. Balance. When you connect to that feeling it "tingles", tension - a connection.

In my hart I know that we all know and can.
Ask yourself how you feel when shooting good, let that pull you, connect to that.

Fear is when we connect to the opposite, in this case "the miss". You tense all the time and then the "cup is full" and nothing else will enter.
Relax, breathe, open and the tension will show up.
Ask yourself what you do when you relax, joy, possibility, success, trust, hope etc etc Positive things. What happens to the body, mind when you do the opposite?

The best follower answer his own questions, with this approach you will lead. And a leader has followers, that´s easy. To force it can be done but it´s very exhausting and will just give you pleasure for a short while - why?

The greatest "lead, connection, leash" is made of?

Look for the answers within.

If you have a "hard" time finding the connection in pool, ask yourself where you have it already - I promise that in some department, dimension...... you have it. You have played pool long before you hold a stick. Find the similarities, and just let go and be pulled.

If you try to push a chain, how well would you do? Pull it? Connect the dots.

Take care you all and just let the "light, light up the path" and it will be a walk in the park.
Be a kid again, they do it all the time - until we smart grown ups starts to fill their heads with fear, impossible, can't do.....

Best regards

Chrippa

 

[Mr. Wilson]

This thread is a good example of the damage that can be done, in terms of the future use of a thread, when the moderators remove posts from a thread.

The list of threads in the Aiming Conversation forum shows this thread as having 2011 "Replies" (before I started writing this post). Yet the last post in the thread (before I started writing this post) was #1886. I imagine that means about 125 posts have been removed from this thread.

When that is done, some of the references to prior posts by post number are no longer accurate. And sometimes clicking on the swooping down arrow next to the poster's name (the "View Post" arrow) in a quoted post no longer takes you to the original location of that quoted post.

This is another reason, in addition to any censorship concerns one might have, for lamenting the removal of posts. Perhaps if the moderators feel a need to delete a post, they could insert some sort of dummy post (e.g., "Deleted by Moderator") in its place so that the post numbering and "View Post" arrow function remain accurate.

As mentioned: JB wanted to take his ball and go home.
He demanded mike delete "his" posts and was granted.

*if* you'd have followed all his drama as others have, you'd know that rather than make statements like the above.

 

[sfleinen]

This thread is a good example of the damage that can be done, in terms of the future use of a thread, when the moderators remove posts from a thread.

The list of threads in the Aiming Conversation forum shows this thread as having 2011 "Replies" (before I started writing this post). Yet the last post in the thread (before I started writing this post) was #1886. I imagine that means about 125 posts have been removed from this thread.

When that is done, some of the references to prior posts by post number are no longer accurate. And sometimes clicking on the swooping down arrow next to the poster's name (the "View Post" arrow) in a quoted post no longer takes you to the original location of that quoted post.

This is another reason, in addition to any censorship concerns one might have, for lamenting the removal of posts. Perhaps if the moderators feel a need to delete a post, they could insert some sort of dummy post (e.g., "Deleted by Moderator") in its place so that the post numbering and "View Post" arrow function remain accurate.

AtLarge:

While I agree with you that it would be a good thing to replace deleted posts with a placeholder so that the post numbers (the human-readable ones in the top-right corner of each post) remain accurate, it's not that easy from a moderation end. I used to moderate a lot of forums from way back; back in the FidoNet days (days of dial-up BBSes). Posts are assigned unique numbers that aren't seen by human eyes, but even today, this is still true. If you hover your mouse over the post count link (don't click), you'll see the unique post number in the status bar of your browser. While, yes, you'll also see the human readable "post count" mentioned in that link, that part is not important for database navigation.

In the bolded part above, the only time that scenario you describe is accurate, is when that unique post number [that that swirlie/down-pointing arrow points to] has been deleted. As long as the post behind that unique post number exists, that unique post number will always take you to it. The database on vBulletin uses that unique post number not only to take you to the post, but also the database is indexed by that post number as well.

EDIT: just to be clear, while the human-readable post count/number (e.g. "1887" for your post in the pic below, as an example) changes according to whether previous posts have been deleted, the unique post number assigned to a post in the database (e.g. "5053366" for your post in the pic below, as an example) never changes.

I just wanted to share this information with you, because while I share your concerns about outright-deleted posts screwing up the human-readable post numbers and "Page" navigation numbers at the bottom, all is not lost.

HTH,
-Sean

 

[ENGLISH!]

A year is a very short period of time to understand the deepest levels - TOI takes a few weeks to learn, and many years to master because there are several levels.

That's why I recommended to read, process, and digest the information (I meant for a few days practice on a table, and didn't clarify - my mistake). Your next level of TOI is close, however, the top level is still a few miles ahead, I'm offering you a proven short-cut.

TOI isn't simply a tool to take out when necessary, it has benefits that come in levels of understanding which do require table time, a deep understanding, and commitment.

Hi CJ,

It's more like 2 years since I started with TOI for the intended purposes that you advocate.

I by no means mean to suggest that I am an expert practitioner of TOI.

I think I have a fairly good understanding & have used TOI to advance my game to win games that I might have lost without the use of TOI.

That said, I have not been able to use TOI exclusively. I'm not comfortable yet with the pivoting method but I have used it too with great success.

I have a 'backlog' of 47 years of rather successful play without TOI & it is not that easy to wipe it out. But...I think I am well on my way to becoming more & more comfortable to shoot shots that my gut 1st. tells me to shoot a certain way & I then override & use TOI to a rather surprising great success. But there are other times that the TOI override has failed, not that TOI failed, but my execution of it failed & that makes the next override a bit more difficult to make the choose to employ it.

I guess it comes down to a matter of trust. There are certain shots that I still trust my old way more, but I certainly see that TOI can be employed & would work, IF I execute it properly.

A story similar to Mike's is that I was watching a rather devoted young woman struggling to make a tight thin cut into the side pocket over & over & over again as she was 'practicing' it. Now I'm a bit reluctant to just walk up to a young woman in a crowded pool hall not knowing if there is a significant other that might get upset if I don't ask first. But, I just could not continue to watch her struggle so with what is not that difficult af a shot. Anyway, I approached & asked her if she'd like me to show her an easy way to make that shot. She said, 'Sure, I'd love it if you can do that'.

I set it up & told her where to align & how to shift to just the touch to the inside & told her to accelerate & hit it a bit firmer than she was hitting it. She shot it & it went right in & her jaw dropped. I explained how the process works & that it can be used for every shot. She thanked me & asked when I would again be in the hall. She's being coached by a very good player in the hall, but he does not use TOI at all.

Anyway...IMHO, TOI can help at any level.

I'm on the TOI journey & am waiting for the next 'revelation' whether it comes from me, You, or 'The Game'.

Best 2 Ya, CJ... & Best 2 All,
Rick

 

[JoeyA]

Like Chrippa's post.

CJ,
You should ask Chrippa to be your editor. :wink:

JoeyA

Thanks CJ,

It grows on you, and when you open up you will see that you had the knowledge already imo. Step by step.

I chose to open up and follow freely, the opposite is to be forced.

Pull, don´t push, Aikido is in the mind also. When you add something it´s positive, when you detract it´s negative. Let the target pull you, relax and when you feel it it will "tingle".

In this case, you add angle using your tip, you will feel it when it´s right.

If the goal is clear the "angle" will follow.

When you are feeling down, you want to feel good. Balance. When you connect to that feeling it "tingles", tension - a connection.

In my hart I know that we all know and can.
Ask yourself how you feel when shooting good, let that pull you, connect to that.

Fear is when we connect to the opposite, in this case "the miss". You tense all the time and then the "cup is full" and nothing else will enter.
Relax, breathe, open and the tension will show up.
Ask yourself what you do when you relax, joy, possibility, success, trust, hope etc etc Positive things. What happens to the body, mind when you do the opposite?

The best follower answer his own questions, with this approach you will lead. And a leader has followers, that´s easy. To force it can be done but it´s very exhausting and will just give you pleasure for a short while - why?

The greatest "lead, connection, leash" is made of?

Look for the answers within.

If you have a "hard" time finding the connection in pool, ask yourself where you have it already - I promise that in some department, dimension...... you have it. You have played pool long before you hold a stick. Find the similarities, and just let go and be pulled.

If you try to push a chain, how well would you do? Pull it? Connect the dots.

Take care you all and just let the "light, light up the path" and it will be a walk in the park.
Be a kid again, they do it all the time - until we smart grown ups starts to fill their heads with fear, impossible, can't do.....

Best regards

Chrippa

 

[AtLarge]

AtLarge:

While I agree with you that it would be a good thing to replace deleted posts with a placeholder so that the post numbers (the human-readable ones in the top-right corner of each post) remain accurate, it's not that easy from a moderation end. I used to moderate a lot of forums from way back; back in the FidoNet days (days of dial-up BBSes). Posts are assigned unique numbers that aren't seen by human eyes, but even today, this is still true. If you hover your mouse over the post count link (don't click), you'll see the unique post number in the status bar of your browser. While, yes, you'll also see the human readable "post count" mentioned in that link, that part is not important for database navigation.

In the bolded part above, the only time that scenario you describe is accurate, is when that unique post number [that that swirlie/down-pointing arrow points to] has been deleted. As long as the post behind that unique post number exists, that unique post number will always take you to it. The database on vBulletin uses that unique post number not only to take you to the post, but also the database is indexed by that post number as well.

EDIT: just to be clear, while the human-readable post count/number (e.g. "1887" for your post in the pic below, as an example) changes according to whether previous posts have been deleted, the unique post number assigned to a post in the database (e.g. "5053366" for your post in the pic below, as an example) never changes.

I just wanted to share this information with you, because while I share your concerns about outright-deleted posts screwing up the human-readable post numbers and "Page" navigation numbers at the bottom, all is not lost.

HTH,
-Sean

OK, you're saying that "the unique post number assigned to a post in the database" does not change when a post is deleted. But that doesn't affect the point I was trying to make -- that clicking on the swoopy down arrow ("View Post" arrow) may no longer take you to the original quoted post (or its placeholder).

Example. [And note that the post(s) chosen for this example are solely for purposes of the "transportation" example, not for what the posts say.] In what is currently post #1446 on page 97 (in 15-posts-per-page mode), pj quotes JoeyA and comments on something JoeyA said. By clicking on the swooping arrow next to JoeyA's name, we should be taken to that original post by JoeyA (#3803252). But that no longer happens. It takes me to the top of what is currently page 104, about 100 posts beyond JoeyA's original post.

Would it not be possible to avoid this unfortunate result somehow? Would inserting some sort of placeholder post, as you call it, when a post is deleted -- even if it involves some work -- do that? If not, what would do it?