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Depends on the scenario. If the variance is relatively the same between shooting two different ways, I'd be more likely to use the method that increases pocket acceptance. Edit: the same can be said for banking.
Taiwan TOI
- Thread starter HawaiianEye
- Start date
Depends on the scenario. If the variance is relatively the same between shooting two different ways, I'd be more likely to use the method that increases pocket acceptance. Edit: the same can be said for banking.
Free AUTOGRAPHED copy of Jimmy Caras' 'Pocket Billiards Fundamentals and Trick Shots
We're all standing on the shoulders of the champions that inspired us, like, in my case Willie Mosconi, Jimmy Caras, Eddie Taylor, Luther Lassiter and Minnesota Fats.
I was fortunate to learn directly from the players of the following era, like Mike Sigel, Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland, "Omaha John," Vernan Elliot, "Bugs" and "JR Weldon".
I'm thankful to them and as a show of appreciate I am going to give an AUTOGRAPHED copy of Jimmy Caras' book 'Pocket Billiards Fundamentals and Trick Shots Made Easy' to the best story related to my teachings of TOI, 'The 3 Part Pocket System', TIP Banking Systems, Ultimate Pool Secrets, etc. Feel free to PM me if you don't want your story to be public, or a target for criticism
I'll pick the story and post it asap (offer ends Saturday at 2 PM) .
Here's what the book looks like (although this one is completely signed on Jimmy's picture inside) - I have the autographed copy in my hand right now waiting to be shipped. Please accept this as a small token of my appreciation for Jimmy Caras and the time he spent with me at CJ's Billiard Palace in Dallas (he was with Willie Mosconi and UJ Puckett)
The book is pictured below: by request I'll also sign and write a note on the very back page.
We're all standing on the shoulders of the champions that inspired us, like, in my case Willie Mosconi, Jimmy Caras, Eddie Taylor, Luther Lassiter and Minnesota Fats.
I was fortunate to learn directly from the players of the following era, like Mike Sigel, Buddy Hall, Earl Strickland, "Omaha John," Vernan Elliot, "Bugs" and "JR Weldon".
I'm thankful to them and as a show of appreciate I am going to give an AUTOGRAPHED copy of Jimmy Caras' book 'Pocket Billiards Fundamentals and Trick Shots Made Easy' to the best story related to my teachings of TOI, 'The 3 Part Pocket System', TIP Banking Systems, Ultimate Pool Secrets, etc. Feel free to PM me if you don't want your story to be public, or a target for criticism
I'll pick the story and post it asap (offer ends Saturday at 2 PM) .
Here's what the book looks like (although this one is completely signed on Jimmy's picture inside) - I have the autographed copy in my hand right now waiting to be shipped. Please accept this as a small token of my appreciation for Jimmy Caras and the time he spent with me at CJ's Billiard Palace in Dallas (he was with Willie Mosconi and UJ Puckett)
The book is pictured below: by request I'll also sign and write a note on the very back page.
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"Centerball does it all is a lie,
The real truth is TOI,
CJ always goes for the run,
Because he knows how it's really done,
Deflection isn't your enemy, it's your friend,
You have to trust the ball to bend,
So stop asking why,
Just get the cash with TOI. "
Do I win the book? :groucho:
The real truth is TOI,
CJ always goes for the run,
Because he knows how it's really done,
Deflection isn't your enemy, it's your friend,
You have to trust the ball to bend,
So stop asking why,
Just get the cash with TOI. "
Do I win the book? :groucho:
What I did to accommodate using my LD shafts with TOI was to simply add the 1/4 ball as another alignment line.
When the angle gets too large for the CTC line I move to the CT1/4 line. When the angle gets too large for that line I go the CTE line.
To me, it's a rather simple fix.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
PJ,
I think perhaps you should not make blanket statements & should perhaps only speak for yourself in certain regards.
Who is the 'You' that losses more in aiming accuracy/consistency when 'you' introduce squirt/swerve than 'you' (theoretically) gain in 'pocket acceptance'.
I started using english within 2 to 3 weeks of being introduced to the game at age 13. When one sees the ball go in after hitting cushions rather than going straight in, one develops an understanding & 'feel' for it & the effective 'size' of the pocket becomes wider because one can play a shot with a plan in mind.
I have 3 years of physics & have been playing for more than 47 years. To me you sometimes make statements that appear to be of an assumptive nature with no real scientific studies to support some of what you say.
One either aims well or one does not aim well. If one knows what happens regarding spin, swerve, & squirt, one can pick an appropriate target for what they plan to use & in doing so can 'throw' to a knuckle ball sized catchers mitt rather than the smaller fast ball catchers mitt.
If you don't mind me asking, how long have you played pool on a real table?
Sometimes when you say some of what you say I get the picture of a total beginner. Not you, but your audience. It's as though everything you say has a total beginner in mind.
If a 13 year old ball can rather quickly learn the difference in using spin over a center ball hit, why wouldn't an adult be able to do that?
I do not mean to be belittling or anything like that, as it is obvious that you understand the dynamics. I am just trying to get a feel as to why you are so down on anything but the most simplistic means of playing the game.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
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Great Job! Looks like you're a poet and didn't real eyes is......I mean Know It. LoL
Wow, you're certainly in the #1 position - that's hilarious, looks like you're a poet and didn't real eyes it......I mean Know It. LoL
Wow, you're certainly in the #1 position - that's hilarious, looks like you're a poet and didn't real eyes it......I mean Know It. LoL
Are eyes the window to your inner game?
How did he specifically go about teaching you the correct eye patterns?
Did he get into "eye access patterns"?
How did he specifically go about teaching you the correct eye patterns?
Did he get into "eye access patterns"?
The simple, straight in shots are always center ball for me. When the shot moves to 5 degrees or less, I don't rely on a "little" spin or moving my aim over a hair, especially on a longer shot on tight tables. I hit a slight amount off center and deflect the cue ball consistently right or left of my straight in alignment.
Like anything, you learn to move the cue ball with a TOI slightly to get that hair you need to cheat a pocket or cinch a 2 degree cut. Spinning the cue ball will work, but not as reliably as just stroking through the cue ball without throwing the ball to the hole.
Changing your aim is very hard when it's just a hair off of straight in. A lot of players have told me this is the hardest basic shot to hit consistently and I think it could possibly be true. Just a degree or two off of straight in is hard to judge and can fool even an advanced player.
I cinch these with TOI.
Best,
Mike
Wow, I must be a way advanced player cause I can do those shots all day long with any spin I want.
Inside, outside, low inside, low outside, center high, center low, center, high outside, high inside.....
But, then again I don't Limit my sytle of play as others do.
Well I have always been a fast shooter I pick my spot on the object ball put my cue on the cue ball and fire many times no pause or practice stroke ,,that's where my one stroke name comes from, now I have a better routine where , I look at the object ball line up the cue ball take a three practice strokes ,the last one with my cue almost touching the cue ball I transfer my eyes to the object ball on my back stroke with a slight pause and then shoot my pocketing has gotten better as well as my position play
I read some where where Kieth had said comeing back to play that it would take him some time to get his eyes working correctly , I think that's what he's talking about ,
Unfoutunitly old habits die hard , and I haven't played much since I learned this ,, but today playing one pocket I had it working really well I was cutting balls in from everywhere , even with a little inside to hold my cue ball ,
however after getting down than back to even I ended up losing by 4 games ,but I'm happy he plays one pocket every day I'm just learning had one 8 n out
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It's amazing to me that you find changing the angle by squirting the CB easier than changing your aim. I mean, in order to squirt the CB you have to spin it at least a little (that's what causes squirt) - enough to throw the OB some too, especially on full hits. So you're adding squirt and throw to the mix and yet you find it easier.
I'm not criticizing - more power to you. I'm just amazed at how differently people work. If TOI "speaks your language" better than a purely "scientific" approach, then it fills a real need and I applaud it. I also applaud CJ for coming up with a teaching "language" that reaches many players. Maybe my comments can be seen as trying to translate parts of it so it can be understood in more common terms for a wider audience.
pj
chgo
Good post.
It's easier for me too. Even to the point of hitting what would be a long straight in shot into a pocket that is nearly 1/2 blocked by another ball by aiming to miss slightly & using the squirt to get it back straight.
It's not that the concept is easier or more simple because it's not. But the execution is easier because on such a tight shot one would have to be perfectly aligned & then have a perfect stroke to hit the exact center of the cue ball. Three needs of 'perfection'.
It's easier to execute & use the dynamics of the more complex TOI method because you're trusting in the method & not putting pressure to be perfect as the other center method would require.
Your last statement would certainly be welcome by those of us using TOI or...perhaps not. We don't want anyone else to start using this.
PJ,
I understand your post completely! A couple of years ago I would've scratched my head, too. I always used a slight amount of spin to throw the ball in or aimed just a hair off of center to make the slight cut.
I worked with TOI for weeks and realized, with practice, I could consistently deflect the cue ball the certain amounts I needed to change the aiming line. I figured I would be all over the place with speed changes, but the opposite happened...I became more consistent.
The key was realizing that the speed doesn't change the cue ball deflection, just the swerve back to the object ball. With TOI, I'm only cueing a half tip off of center, if that. The spin is almost negligible.
When I used to spin balls in, I had to feel how much spin would throw the object ball, compensate for the cue ball deflection and the swerve back.
TOI is one calculation for the most part, cue ball deflection. I still use spin when I need it to throw balls, that's part of pool. But I've taken a percentage of my shots and simplified their execution by cinching them with straight, consistent deflection only.
And that's just for slight off angle shots. Hopefully we don't have a failure to communicate. Great movie! :thumbup:
Best,
Mike
You seem to be on TILT about TOI. You can use it if you like, or not. Nobody is attacking you if you don't.
Please realize this. We, in turn, would like the same consideration, if possible.
Best,
Mike
Well....look who's back. Welcome Brother Patrick. I have to admit on certain shots where I got to move the ball and force an angle I do offset and let the deflection bring the ball back and across. Makes angle and helps me (generally out of a corner with running inside) get position on flat shots with small angles.
Nick
Nick
You can change the angle with cb, just as easy - if you begin to take notice of how much it squirts when you contact the cb in different positions using parallell aiming.
If we agree that it squirts, it requires the same belief.
And I´m pretty sure that you know that already shooting shots using english and parallell aiming, connect to that and then you "tune it"/"calibrate it"/"feel it".
The more you use TOI (or any system) you will tune into it, you will see the connections of the results more often and then it´s easier to relate to them, see the outcome, see the motive/picture - the goal, - And a line of connections are made and then you will feel the pull for that goal and then you push.
The more you trust it,( yourself )the more determined the stroke will be and you will both see it and hear it. Pinning imo.
In the beginning a stopshot was hard, what did it take to make it easier? We will find the answer in the question.
Everybody knows and everybody can.
Chrippa
What I'd like to see is those that use squirt, defection and so on call where in the pocket they will hit and see how many times that spot is hit.
My belief is anyone that uses the above are not precision shooters. No way they can be because of all the variables that effect the above.
In the pocket is not the same as hitting a certain spot in the pocket.
My belief is anyone that uses the above are not precision shooters. No way they can be because of all the variables that effect the above.
In the pocket is not the same as hitting a certain spot in the pocket.
Thanks Rick, I could see that work to accommodate more angles. To me though, the 1/4 ball reference is just as ambiguous as, dare I say....the cte line. Part of what I like about the method, is that its based off of consistent edges, half ball alignment.
I'm not saying it cant be done, but being the system is deflection based, to me the low deflection shaft is counter productive to the method itself. I mean, you want the ball to react to deflection.....but with a Z-2 it's a dead hit compared to say, a crisp schon shaft.
Still wondering how its possible to cheat the pocket with speed but not throw, if anybody knows.