Taiwan TOI

[CJ Wiley]

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How's those Pepsi and McDonalds sponserships working out,,,.



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Earl made over $200,000 that year in sponsorship's, and shot the historic "Million Dollar Shot". In the interview I obviously used those two brands as examples. CLICK HERE TO LISTEN AGAIN

 

[one stroke]

I'm sure "Dr Dave" is a smart guy, although his pool playing ability remains a mystery.

Maybe you should ask Dave is he's a better player than me, I've not seem him in a competitive situation - as far as I know he's never placed in any regional, or national event. I could be wrong, the only place I've ever seen his name is on this forum.

Here's a few video's I've shared on azbilliards, CLICK HERE

there has always been this great misconception that you have to be a great player to be a great coach / instructor ,, nothing could be farther from the truth ,,

It could be that Dave like many others know , there's no real money in pool and he persued a more lucertive career such as a NY city trashman or anyone of a thousand other higher paying jobs

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[dr_dave]

I haven't read this entire thread, nor do I have a full understanding of the TOI philosophy, but based on what I have seen and heard, and since I was asked to provide input, I think the following thought experiment (or actual experiment if you have access to a table and have some patience) can be helpful:

With a center-ball aim,
1.) slight error to the inside results in a TOI (touch of inside).
2.) no error results in a pure center-ball hit.
3.) slight error to the outside results in a TOO (touch of outside).

With a TOI aim,
4.) slight error to the inside results in more than a TOI.
5.) no error results in a TOI.
6.) slight error to the outside results in either a pure center-ball hit or a slight TOO.

The real question is: Are 4, 5 and 6 better outcomes than 1, 2 and 3, in general. I personally don't think so, and there are clear and solid arguments that back up this viewpoint.

For straight shots, especially long shots with tight pockets, an attempted center-ball hit will obviously result in the most accuracy and consistency (unless there are problems with visual alignment).

For cut shots, the choice of inside vs. outside will often depend on CB position control requirements, so we don't always have a choice. If there are no english requirements on a cut shot, an argument can easily be made for either a touch (or more) of either inside or outside english. I think for most people (especially those who don't have a solid understanding and/or intuition of all important effects involved with aiming with english), no english at all will be the most effective choice, assuming the person isn't relying on english to help correct faulty aim or visual alignment. And for some people (especially under clingy conditions), outside english will be the best choice (especially if one knows how to judge the gearing amount of outside english appropriate for each cut angle).

For those interested, arguments supporting the use of inside english can be found on the inside english resource page, and arguments supporting the use of outside english can be found on the outside english resource page.

You sound like the type of guy that would tell a bowler they'd be better off throwing a straight ball and aim directly at the head pin.

I would certainly not say anything this silly or uninformed. There are tremendous advantages to throwing a curve in bowling to maximize oil-pattern performance and to create more-favorable angles into the "pocket". There really isn't a good analogy to this in pool (other than the fact that masse shots in pool have similar physics to curve balls in bowling ... they also both look cool).

Or you'd go to a professional golfer and tell that they'd be better off aiming at the center of the fairway and hit a straight shot.

That would also be a silly thing to say. Again, the physics of golf ball flight is radically different from the physics of a pool shot (even though there are lots of similarities in the mental aspects and pre-shot routines of pool, bowling, and golf).

This wasn't an analogy, I said you remind me of guy that would say these off the wall things for whatever reason.

What in my posts above remind you of a guy who would say "off the wall things for whatever reason?" Did you consider any points in my posts or resources "off the wall?" If so, which ones, and why?

If you truly want to debate this with me maybe we could do it on the phone ... Then you would have a chance to elaborate on your points and statements.

I'd be happy to answer any questions or respond to any disagreements you might have with any of the points in my posts above or with any of the information in my linked resource pages.

I don't see a need for a public "debate" by phone. I think the documented forum format is an excellent way to share and discuss information and opinions, and to attempt to better understand any disagreements.

Regards,
Dave

 

[BeiberLvr]

I'm sure "Dr Dave" is a smart guy, although his pool playing ability remains a mystery.

Maybe you should ask Dave is he's a better player than me, I've not seem him in a competitive situation - as far as I know he's never placed in any regional, or national event. I could be wrong, the only place I've ever seen his name is on this forum.

Here's a few video's I've shared on azbilliards, CLICK HERE

I'd click on your link, but I'm trying to improve my game.

 

[one stroke]

Earl made over $200,000 that year in sponsorship's, and shot the historic "Million Dollar Shot". In the interview I obviously used those two brands as examples. CLICK HERE TO LISTEN AGAIN

I hate to tell you the bad news breaking away from Camel and Beer sponserships was a huge mistake ,, those sponships did far more for pool than any others past or present
NASCAR has hauled in billions of those sponsors ,,
Maybe you should look into a Vape sponser the next big thing


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[Patrick Johnson]

Seems to me that just aiming at the part of the pocket you want to hit is the most simple.

pj
chgo

Rick:
I might agree with you, IF... one could ALWAYS put the exact center of the 3mm diameter tip contact area on the exact center line of that 2 1/4" diameter sphere.

Read Dr. Dave's post - he makes the same point I do about the "avoid center" idea, but in a different way. Maybe you'll understand it the way he puts it.

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I was really wondering how you get down on the shot, it's certainly unique.

you remind me of guy that would say these off the wall things

I'm sure "Dr Dave" is a smart guy, although his pool playing ability remains a mystery.

Maybe you should ask Dave is he's a better player than me

I'm guessing these are examples of what's meant by "debating in a professional manner".

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Read Dr. Dave's post - he makes the same point I do about the "avoid center" idea, but in a different way. Maybe you'll understand it the way he puts it.

pj
chgo

Patrick,

I've read part of it.

I understand the odds thing given one's stroke.

What you & some others don't seem to understand is if one can increase the odds of hitting on ONE side of the ball & have a plan for the hit on that side then one can use the whole pocket in one direction for any variation of intended hit.

AND if one misses the pocket to a particular side it gives an indication of what went wrong & there is a method to try to keep it from happening again other than just trying harder to hit the center the next time.

And... I do understand the argument of the next stroke being just another random stroke, but... it really is not as there are human influences that can be put on it.

There are more components in play with TOI so there are more components at one's disposal.

Can one aim for, or target a ball to mis & then still intentionally pocket that ball with a center hit? The answer is no.

BUT...one can do that with english & TOI. So... in effect the pocket is effectively larger because the miss from the alignment is in one direction & the whole pocket is there to catch the miss instead of 1/2 the pocket for a mis on the left & 1/2 the pocket for a miss on the right for a center hit attempt & one does not know to what side the mis will come with the center hit attempt.

I know I'm wasting my time.

But...please remember one still needs a good stroke to get the FULL benefits of TOI. We're not talking about raw beginners here.

I've told the story about the time that I coached a mentally challenged individual to beat his neighbor. The mentally challenged man beat his neighbor because he did EXACTLY what I told him to do with no fear. That included hitting shots with english & TOI.

Maybe one needs to put aside that File D intelligence in order to play better pool.

I'd much rather use english & TOI on a pool a table than 'win' a discussion here with you.

Like CJ has said when he 1st. introduced TOI, everyone is at choice...& that is how it should be... & is.

Best 2 you & All,
Rick

PS Maybe you can find the time to spend 3 straight hours hitting every shot with TOI & the 'language' will come together.

PS Can one add or negate cut using speed with a center hit on the cue ball, other than reducing CIT? The answer is no. But since there is squirt & the swerve can be allowed into the picture, one can be reduced &/or add cut from a given base shot speed. I know this sound complex to some but as I've said TOI to me is a feel method base off of two simply alignments.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I'm guessing these are examples of what's meant by "debating in a professional manner".

pj
chgo

Is that 4 'quotes' taken out of context & compiled...

to do what & make what point?

Best 2 you & ALL,
Rick

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Rick:
...one does not know to what side the mis will come with the center hit attempt.

Yeah, I'm familiar with the claim that moving to one side of the CB and aiming to one side of the pocket cures that. Problem is the claim doesn't hold water - not because of "science" or "physics", but because it's simply unsound reasoning.

I think TOI teaches some valuable things in a unique way that some players respond to - it doesn't need mythical stroke cure claims to muddy its reputation.

pj
chgo

 

[ENGLISH!]

Yeah, I'm familiar with the claim that moving to one side of the CB and aiming to one side of the pocket cures that. Problem is the claim doesn't hold water - not because of "science" or "physics", but because it's simply unsound reasoning.

I think TOI teaches some valuable things in a unique way that some players respond to - it doesn't need mythical stroke cure claims to muddy its reputation.

pj
chgo

I made no claim of any stroke cure & I'm fairly sure that CJ never has either.

Why do you seem to like to 'quote' excerpts out of context & make comments on them that give entirely different perceptions of what was actually said?

Misstating things to imply that others have said things that they have not certainly does muddy reputations.

I thought I was wasting my time but now I'm sure of it.

 

[BeiberLvr]

Is that 4 'quotes' taken out of context & compiled...

to do what & make what point?

Best 2 you & ALL,
Rick

The point is that CJ is a dick to anyone that doesn't believe his gospel.

 

[one stroke]

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[ENGLISH!]

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Why did you basically delete your post?

I thought it was nearly 'dead on'.

 

[DAVE_M]

I'm sure "Dr Dave" is a smart guy, although his pool playing ability remains a mystery.

Maybe you should ask Dave is he's a better player than me, I've not seem him in a competitive situation - as far as I know he's never placed in any regional, or national event. I could be wrong, the only place I've ever seen his name is on this forum.

Here's a few video's I've shared on azbilliards, CLICK HERE

This is the most arrogant thing that I have ever read on AzBilliards. I'm going to put this in the most polite way possible, as the AzB team has already told me to lay off the smack talk.

CJ, you are arguing with a professor at a well known university, who also happens to have his P.E. and a Doctorate. YOU WON'T WIN...
Not to mention, Dr. Dave has provided years of knowledge with the facts and videos to prove his theories.

 

[Mitchxout]

This is the most arrogant thing that I have ever read on AzBilliards. I'm going to put this in the most polite way possible, as the AzB team has already told me to lay off the smack talk.

CJ, you are arguing with a professor at a well known university, who also happens to have his P.E. and a Doctorate. YOU WON'T WIN...

Coming from an academic background has nothing to do with high pressure, world class pool. CJ could give Dr Dave the 6 out on the table and life in general.

 

[DAVE_M]

I'm sure "Dr Dave" is a smart guy, although his pool playing ability remains a mystery.

Maybe you should ask Dave is he's a better player than me, I've not seem him in a competitive situation - as far as I know he's never placed in any regional, or national event. I could be wrong, the only place I've ever seen his name is on this forum.

Here's a few video's I've shared on azbilliards, CLICK HERE

Coming from an academic background has nothing to do with high pressure, world class pool. CJ could give Dr Dave the 6 out on the table and life in general.

The argument started about cut shots.

 

[Mitchxout]

The argument started about cut shots.

It would be prudent to listen to them both. However, it's valid to take into consideration who they are and what they've accomplished.

 

[one stroke]

The point is that CJ is a dick to anyone that doesn't believe his gospel.

He's usualy defending himself when he is ,, I don't have a problem with it you don't get to his level , without a little bit of cockiness and arrogance ,, even if they don't show it they think it

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[one stroke]

Coming from an academic background has nothing to do with high pressure, world class pool. CJ could give Dr Dave the 6 out on the table and life in general.

Really and just how in the world do you draw the conclusion ,, do you know both personaly ,,



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