some, not all. Most are just venting.
Questionable BCAPL Sanctioning Going on in Wisconsin?
- Thread starter labrat
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some, not all. Most are just venting.
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I actually play in the BCAPL, and I too am curious about this one day sanctioning. We have about 110 people in our in-house league and there are several that cant get sanctioned each year because of the 8 week rule, but would love to go to the tourneys. So with that in mind, I and the rest of the people in our league would like to know if it is possible to hold a weekend sanctioning event so that these people can have the chance to get sanctioned? I do believe that this is still a pool forum about pool and for pool by pool players is it not? Ozzy gets paid from us the league players so this is a valid question. I would love to be able to get everyone in our league that pays their dues each year to be able to play all the tourneys that come up.
i am not a board member of a competing league or attacking bcapl. i actually have a question for you. actually a couple.
1. is it true that according to bcapl rules that leagues have to play a minimum of 8 weeks to qualify?
2. if it is true....is it safe to say that these people who have broken this rule not legally eligible for this tournament ?
^^^ This. :thumbup:
Whether you are right or you are wrong, this way of bringing it to light will make it less likely that people take it seriously.
I will be curious to see if this is addressed at some point, as there are people now questioning the situation. (Like Lyn, who is not anonymous, and a regular high finisher for BCApl)
Saying that "It doesn't matter who I am or what I have posted before. I bring this to this forum as the best way for others to know what is going one in WI. This is not the 1900s where they use the pony express to pass news across the country. We are in the 2000s and we use social media to let others know what is going one in the world" is all well and good, but it isn't a proper way of doing business. And you are in business, competing against CSI, which is obvious.
Each division of your league will run at least eight [COLOR="Red[B]"](8) calendar [/B]weeks of competition[/COLOR]. Players competing in a minimum of eight (8) full regularly scheduled league matches in the same league division over at least eight (8) calendar weeks during a sanctioned league session shall be eligible to compete in the Singles, Scotch Doubles, and Team divisions of the BCAPL National Championships. NOTE: Players in singles and doubles leagues will not be eligible to form teams for BCAPL state, regional, or national team events. However, players in scotch doubles divisions may act as "substitutes" for a team from a team division of the same league.
SIMPLE FIX: Eliminate the phrase "spanning 8 weeks" from the rules. More players in tournaments, more prize money, more money for the associations. This goes on in more locations than Wisconsin by the way!
SIMPLE FIX: Eliminate the phrase "spanning 8 weeks" from the rules. More players in tournaments, more prize money, more money for the associations. This goes on in more locations than Wisconsin by the way!
I'm just throwing this out there, but if this is true please let me know if there is a BCAPL league in South Dakota. I shoot league every week and even with this option will continue to do so but I would love to start a team where I can get some of the guys that can't get all their weeks in qualified for some tournaments because it sucks watching them miss out because they travel for work.
Below is from your web site. Explain to me how you are not competing by the words you have used here:
Run by pool players, for the pool players. Striving to grow the game of pool across the state of Wisconsin.
As you may know, the current sanctioning dues for BCAPL are $15 per player. What you may not know, is that the WIBCAPL receives only 10% of those dues back from the National BCAPL. That means from the 4,000 BCAPL players in the state of Wisconsin, $60,000 is sent in and the WIBCAPL only receives $6,000 back. This money is then contributed to the added money at the state tournament.
Our sole mission is to promote the sport of amateur pocket billiards in the state of Wisconsin. We feel it is crucial to the development of pocket billiards to offer something that more of our players can benefit from. The main benefit to Wisconsin players sanctioning with the BCAPL is the ability to compete at the National BCAPL Championships. However, over the last five years, Wisconsin’s participation has been an average of 4% of the WIBCAPL sanctioning body and has been in decline each year. With that said, it is with much excitement that we share this news with you.
The future of Wisconsin pool lies within an independent association, but we need your help in making this a very successful first year! We are inviting all currently sanctioned BCAPL leagues and welcoming any non-sanctioned leagues to join the future of Wisconsin pool: the Wisconsin State Poolplayers Association. The WSPA will have no ties to a national organization and will be its own independent association, keeping 100% of our sanctioning fees right here in the state of Wisconsin!
What the WSPA does for you:
•Lower sanction dues
•One sanction fee per league year
•Easier startup of new leagues
•Easier ways to sanction
•Bigger state tournaments
What the future holds:
•Reduced green fees
•Reduced administration fees
•More added money
•Even bigger state tournaments
•Player ratings committee
We urge you the players to encourage your League Operator to sanction with the WSPA, as you must shoot in a WSPA sanctioned league to compete in the WSPA State Singles and Team Championships. Leagues still can and are encouraged to sanction with the BCAPL if a number of players participate in team play at Nationals. Please be aware that you do not need to shoot in a BCAPL sanctioned league to compete in National singles and doubles events and can simply do so with a BCAPL Player Membership.
WSPA - I see that you changed the location of your tournament. That seems to be in violation of your by laws.
Section 1: General Tournament Sponsorship. The WSPA Corporation acting
through its Board of Directors shall organize and sponsor the State Billiard
Tournament(s), which shall include without limitation the following responsibilities:
(a) Providing prizes, money, awards, or premiums promised and fulfilling any
financial obligations to governing bodies;
(b) Holding Tournament(s) at the designated locations on the promoted dates;
(c) Notifying the players to any material changes in the Tournament(s);
(d) Providing security and safety; and
(e) Providing general supervision of Tournament play
Section 1: General Tournament Sponsorship. The WSPA Corporation acting
through its Board of Directors shall organize and sponsor the State Billiard
Tournament(s), which shall include without limitation the following responsibilities:
(a) Providing prizes, money, awards, or premiums promised and fulfilling any
financial obligations to governing bodies;
(b) Holding Tournament(s) at the designated locations on the promoted dates;
(c) Notifying the players to any material changes in the Tournament(s);
(d) Providing security and safety; and
(e) Providing general supervision of Tournament play
WSPA - did the following leagues request and get an exception? I am sure they did, just wanted to ask. I looked thru your 'meeting minutes' and couldn't see where it was discussed (although you only have one meeting minutes from July 2014 posted)
•Lefties Monday Nite Singles (11)
•Rhinelander WSPA Summer Singles League (14)
•The Pool Hall (14)
LEAGUE REQUIREMENTS & PLAYER SANCTIONING
Leagues sanctioning with more than one association must adhere to the strictest requirements set forth by any given association.
•Leagues must consist of a minimum of twenty (20) players. Leagues with less than 20 players can request an exception by the WSPA. The WSPA will review this request and rule on a case-by-case basis.•Leagues must have a minimum of an eight (8) week schedule.
•It is permissible for leagues to run double header nights, but is at the discretion of League Operators and the other associations your league may sanction with.
•The WSPA will not require substitutes to pay sanctioning dues until their fourth league match.
•Leagues will submit player information and dues once per month and after the final week of league play, along with league statistics if they are not available online.
•Current annual player sanction fee is set at $8.00.
•Lefties Monday Nite Singles (11)
•Rhinelander WSPA Summer Singles League (14)
•The Pool Hall (14)
LEAGUE REQUIREMENTS & PLAYER SANCTIONING
Leagues sanctioning with more than one association must adhere to the strictest requirements set forth by any given association.
•Leagues must consist of a minimum of twenty (20) players. Leagues with less than 20 players can request an exception by the WSPA. The WSPA will review this request and rule on a case-by-case basis.•Leagues must have a minimum of an eight (8) week schedule.
•It is permissible for leagues to run double header nights, but is at the discretion of League Operators and the other associations your league may sanction with.
•The WSPA will not require substitutes to pay sanctioning dues until their fourth league match.
•Leagues will submit player information and dues once per month and after the final week of league play, along with league statistics if they are not available online.
•Current annual player sanction fee is set at $8.00.
Sounds to me like your in-house league should become BCAPL sanctioned. You collect $15 from each player at the beginning of the year and pass it on to the national office. You almost certainly don't have to change anything about your format or dues or anything else. Problem solved.
We have 50 in-house teams at Fargo Billiards in three divisions. Every team/every player is BCAPL sanctioned. It's part of first night dues. Been doing it like this for five years. Nobody complains and the number of teams has grown every year for five years.
I don't understand what is going on in Wisconsin, but I know there has been stuff going on the last couple years. If, as I suspect, it is a local organization cropping up that says hey don't sanction nationally--join with us instead--we'll keep more money locally-- then I say say that organization is picking the low-lying fruit when it comes to supporting pool.
That argument sounds attractive, but it's divisive. It is bad for pool. We, as people who care about pool, need to go in the other direction; we need to encourage more people, more in-house leagues, more local organizations to sanction nationally. Yes, I see that if we had a weak or unscrupulous or mismanaged national organization, then things would be more complicated. But we don't
CSI/BCAPL is a well managed forward-thinking organization that has been at the wave crest of almost everything good that's happened in pool in the last decade. There is every reason to believe that if this organization had more resources, pool would be the winner.
So yes there is goofiness I don't understand going on in Wisconsin right now. I hope this all gets worked out. The LAST thing we need is to become more insular, to narrow our thinking to our region, our individual leagues, ourselves.
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Steve,
Just don't understand your statement. The OP asked a legitimate question of BCAPL / CSI. Now you're questioning the legitimacy of an organization he may or may not be a member of. The question should be, did BCAPL authorize the sanctioning of a shortened schedule for players who wish to play in the 2015 Wisconsin BCAPL State Tournament? Yes or no. Why even question the OP's intent or affiliation. Isn't it possible some bad jusdgement was in use here? Possibly on BOTH sides?
Lyn
Wouldn't the bolded part allow for a 4 week league?
I agree it's a valid question but wouldn't it have been better to call Mark and ask about it and if you didn't like the answer then maybe coming here or explaining why he/she thought it was wrong?
I realize it's the social media age but people can still pick up the phone and talk. Also, reread the post. It wasn't really a question, he/she was pretty aggressive in the first post and it's funny that all of the op's posts are about BCAPL. It's pretty obvious op isn't a fan of BCAPL and that's all he/she wishes to contribute to the forum so far.
Lyn - you should know by now that I never have bad judgement.
In something like this, you have to establish the source AND THE CREDIBILITY of the person asking the questions. That is what I have done. There are 3 sides to every story, I was simply showing one of the sides which may or may not be full of hypocrosy. And I got those questions after reviewing their website for all of about 5 minutes. Maybe I should put some more time into it and see what else I can ascertain.
This Jeff G Martin likes quotes of wise men. Here is one for you "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones'
p.s. to Lyn - if you want an answer to your question, you are obviously a known entity as others have pointed out. Pick up the phone and call Ozzy or Bill Stock. They are very approachable to legitimate questions from legitimate people.
Steve,
I'll do better than that. When I'm in Vegas again in three weeks, I'll stop by the office and ask the question personally. As I currently fly out for eight days and get two matches in each trip, it sure would make it much less expensive for me to play a shortened sanctioning schedule! Hopefully this situation will have been cleared up by then,
Also agree you never use bad judgement
. You're one of the good guys on AZ.Lyn
In my opinion if it's questioning ones business practice, personal life or something to that extent I would try a one on one talk first and if you aren't satisfied then bring it out for public opinion. Just how I deal with stuff. If you aren't satisfied with a product do you come straight out and bash it, the maker and the dealer or would you call the company and say " Hey, this is what's wrong, this is what I think would make it right, what can you do?" Like I said just how I think things should be handled and Ozzi gave him the chance to get the question answered in public ( Plus promote his own association ) on a live podcast. Why not do it?