Is the Cue Market Dead Now and Forever?

The music industry has gained a major advantage. Being a hack guitarist the plethora of youtube tutorials I feel that I can take lessons without leaving my house.
that looks like a Burmese mountain in your pic?

JV

Sloppy Pockets said:
I believe the problem with the cue market is probably three-fold:


1. Reduced demand (due to fewer players)

2. Over supply (the market is saturated with mid-range custom cues)

3. "It's the economy, stupid" (or at least it was until recently)


Many cue dealers will likely find strong parallels between my business and the cue business. Big difference is that, unlike pool, interest in music is as strong as ever.


http://www.thefinancialist.com/the-vintage-guitar-markets-roller-coaster-ride/





Despite the recovered economy, I wouldn't expect the cue business to recover its former glory until renewed interest in playing expands the potential market again. Same old laws of supply and demand are what is driving it. That is the biggest reason I backed off from my plans to become a cue maker.

Of course, I may be interested in a nice custom player for myself... if the price is right, that is. ;)
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WildWing said:
These are my favorite. Cues are not a good investment, unless bought in the 80s, or before, maybe a few 90s, but there are some who claim that their currently bought Southwest, Barry S, Hercek, Tascarella, or Searing will be a good investment.

A good tax free muni fund will return about 6 to 7 percent, and if you're in a decent situation, after tax will be about 9 percent, annual rate. The consistent stock funds do better, in a ten year timeframe. Try that on a cue purchase. I'd like someone to show me a cue bought in the past ten years (fairly long time in investment terms) that returned greater than about 9 percent annual. Sales slips, please.

Go ahead, make my day.
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Just one example ---- I picked up my ebony SW in Vega$ 3 years ago in July during the BCAPL. I got 10 offers, and I wasn't even trying to sell it, and all were for 250% of what I paid for it. Two Taiwanese players wouldn't let it out of their hands.

I posted pics of it here on AZ in the cue gallery section --- the offers continued.

You're welcome for making your day.
 
Many sales slips, financing the retirement plan, make a good argument for cues as investments. Still haven't seen them from anyone.

You're welcome.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Politically correct? Sure. Lol

Whatever. Guess you have it all figured out. No smoking laws killed pool, and it's got nothing to do with the lack of new players coming into the game.

Pool rooms like Steinway in NYC are booming. Why? Plenty of great players there. Snookers is bringing in lots of younger players and they seem to be doing fine.

Fact is there are precious few players in my area where there used to be lots. Hard to even find a bar with a table in the corner. Used to be every bar had at least one, but now they get pulled out because nobody plays the game like they used to. Kids today want everything to be easy. Pool is hard. They have little interest in doing anything they can't do on a smart phone. That's my facts.

As far as the places I mentioned, they ain't catering to the pickup crowd. Mostly good country or blues bands, and the customers are mostly guys with their wives or girlfriends, not some 20 something dude sniffing out chicks in push-up bras and crop tops.
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One thing he forgot to add is there are places that prospered from thier closing one of them in a big way , Bank shots now has 138 teams by far and away the most teams of any establishment in the area , maybe the country

1
 
So pool rooms have generally propspered in the past dozen years, when the smoking bans came in, and cues have been a good investment in the same timeframe? I would say no, and no. It's funny how some like to grasp a couple examples to make a strained rebuttal. If you were correct, threads like this wouldn't exist. Sometimes the facts are a bit negative, but they are facts, nonetheless. Sorry about that.
 
WildWing said:
So pool rooms have generally propspered in the past dozen years, when the smoking bans came in, and cues have been a good investment in the same timeframe? I would say no, and no. It's funny how some like to grasp a couple examples to make a strained rebuttal. If you were correct, threads like this wouldn't exist. Sometimes the facts are a bit negative, but they are facts, nonetheless. Sorry about that.
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You're mistaking correlation with causation, it's a common logical fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc. Yes a smoking ban happened and yes pool rooms suffered in the same timeframe. To imply the former caused the latter however is a leap without supporting evidence and I don't think any of us has that. Either side can provide anecdotal examples that reinforce their belief, but there is no proof one way or the other.

Pool was on a downward trend before the widespread smoking bans. By your logic it should be thriving everywhere a smoking ban hasn't taken place yet and I don't think we would find that if we were able to get accurate data. I'm sure there are pockets where the smoking ban hurt, and I'm sure there are some where it didn't or it even could have helped.

As a non-smoker I probably wouldn't go to any smoke filled poolroom, it would highly discourage my participation in the game and I'm sure I'm not alone.
 
classiccues said:
The music industry has gained a major advantage. Being a hack guitarist the plethora of youtube tutorials I feel that I can take lessons without leaving my house.
that looks like a Burmese mountain in your pic?

JV
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True, but I could say the same thing about pool. Even though I always loved the game, I've always been a bit of a hack as a pool player, mostly because I never had the opportunity to be around great players. There is so much high-quality pool to learn from on You Tube. Great matches, expert commentary, tutorials, physics, etc. Heck, there's info out there that wasn't even known in the old days.

Now that I'm retired and have my own table I can finally play all I want to, but it's pretty hard to get to some of the knowledge many of you learned growing up in pool halls watching the best players. In the past five years I've watched many hundreds of matches, everything from one-hole to snooker, and I've absorbed a lot about the way the game is played at the highest levels. We learn mostly by doing, but we can also learn a bunch through observation and imitation. Ain't no better learner than a two year-old, and they learn everything they know by doing just that.

BTW my dog is an Australian Shepherd. Not related to a Burmese at all, except he's got the same tri-color markings. He's a handful because he's a ball of athletic energy, but he's real sweet pup and smarter than me by a stretch.
 
'Thrifty'

I have played golf for 40 years as well as pool. Been playing allot more pool the past 10 years. To me, pool players are grinders and cheapskates. Nothing like golf enthusiast's and collector's. Just a different breed. I have a nice collection of golf clubs as well as pool cues and enjoy the hit and beauty of both.

Why drop 3k on a cue with name, elaborate detailed work when you can get a SP or PJ from same builder for well under a grand and enjoy the hit and not be freaking anytime anyone gets close to it ? Unless you are rich. Personally, I do not like taking my good stuff to the bar or hall. Too much can happen and it does.

Late,
-Kat
 
slide13 said:
You're mistaking correlation with causation, it's a common logical fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc. Yes a smoking ban happened and yes pool rooms suffered in the same timeframe. To imply the former caused the latter however is a leap without supporting evidence and I don't think any of us has that. Either side can provide anecdotal examples that reinforce their belief, but there is no proof one way or the other.

Pool was on a downward trend before the widespread smoking bans. By your logic it should be thriving everywhere a smoking ban hasn't taken place yet and I don't think we would find that if we were able to get accurate data. I'm sure there are pockets where the smoking ban hurt, and I'm sure there are some where it didn't or it even could have helped.

As a non-smoker I probably wouldn't go to any smoke filled poolroom, it would highly discourage my participation in the game and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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I wouldn't and didn't say the change in laws was the only factor in pool's decline. I would say it is a strong contributing factor. The time frame coincidence is too hard to simply ignore. I don't think we're disagreeing as much as you may think. I'm aware of the difference in correlate and cause, but contribute is a strong possibility. And, when there is less participation, there's less interest in the cue market on an overall level.
 
Quality Cues said:
I have been buying, selling and trading cues for the past 12 years. Each year the market has gotten progressively worse. It appears to be impossible to sell cues for real money anymore. I've seen the same cues being offered for sale at reasonable prices for several months in the Wanted/For Sale section of AZ and not selling. Is the cue market dead now and forever?
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I have two views: when I'm holding cues; is just a passing cloud.
When I'm not holding cues; the market is interesting :) Just kidding.

Reasonable prices for what year? I've seen the same cues over and over. I've also seen when something realistically priced comes up, it disappears quickly. The sale ads should have a 60 day life, beyond that it hurts everybody.

Mario
 
a person could make decent money buying-up and selling just used McDermotts and Meuccis... People go crazy for them on ebay.
 
slide13 said:
Pool was on a downward trend before the widespread smoking bans. By your logic it should be thriving everywhere a smoking ban hasn't taken place yet and I don't think we would find that if we were able to get accurate data. I'm sure there are pockets where the smoking ban hurt, and I'm sure there are some where it didn't or it even could have helped.

As a non-smoker I probably wouldn't go to any smoke filled poolroom, it would highly discourage my participation in the game and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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My thoughts exactly :thumbup:
 
slide13 said:
You're mistaking correlation with causation, it's a common logical fallacy - post hoc ergo propter hoc. Yes a smoking ban happened and yes pool rooms suffered in the same timeframe. To imply the former caused the latter however is a leap without supporting evidence and I don't think any of us has that. Either side can provide anecdotal examples that reinforce their belief, but there is no proof one way or the other.

Pool was on a downward trend before the widespread smoking bans. By your logic it should be thriving everywhere a smoking ban hasn't taken place yet and I don't think we would find that if we were able to get accurate data. I'm sure there are pockets where the smoking ban hurt, and I'm sure there are some where it didn't or it even could have helped.

As a non-smoker I probably wouldn't go to any smoke filled poolroom, it would highly discourage my participation in the game and I'm sure I'm not alone.
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Exactly, not to mention the poor economy that was happening at the same time many new smoking laws were on the books. Low interest sport, that has been declining for sometime, with a poor economy where folks decided to spend money on essentials, hurt lots of places.

As I recall, many restaurants failed as well....before any smoking bans.
 
Yeah but you need a lot more space to play pool than to play guitar. But if you had a table or bought your wifi device to a room you would have unlimited access to great tutorial info.
I had fostered an Aussie shepherd he had a lot of blue in him.

Joe

Sloppy Pockets said:
True, but I could say the same thing about pool. Even though I always loved the game, I've always been a bit of a hack as a pool player, mostly because I never had the opportunity to be around great players. There is so much high-quality pool to learn from on You Tube. Great matches, expert commentary, tutorials, physics, etc. Heck, there's info out there that wasn't even known in the old days.

Now that I'm retired and have my own table I can finally play all I want to, but it's pretty hard to get to some of the knowledge many of you learned growing up in pool halls watching the best players. In the past five years I've watched many hundreds of matches, everything from one-hole to snooker, and I've absorbed a lot about the way the game is played at the highest levels. We learn mostly by doing, but we can also learn a bunch through observation and imitation. Ain't no better learner than a two year-old, and they learn everything they know by doing just that.

BTW my dog is an Australian Shepherd. Not related to a Burmese at all, except he's got the same tri-color markings. He's a handful because he's a ball of athletic energy, but he's real sweet pup and smarter than me by a stretch.
Click to expand...



Sent from my LG-P505 using Tapatalk 2
 
WildWing said:
I wouldn't and didn't say the change in laws was the only factor in pool's decline. I would say it is a strong contributing factor. The time frame coincidence is too hard to simply ignore. I don't think we're disagreeing as much as you may think. I'm aware of the difference in correlate and cause, but contribute is a strong possibility. And, when there is less participation, there's less interest in the cue market on an overall level.
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Maybe I didn't give your argument enough respect. There is some merit in what you are saying here IMO.

I'm sure it may have been a contributing factor. Smoke and pool always went together like ham and eggs. I used to smoke like a fiend, especially back in the days when I was in the bars playing. At one point I smoked an absurd 2-3 packs a day. When the new laws went into effect I found it difficult to want to go to the bars anymore, but I was also at an age when those days were basically over for me. I do think if I was a younger man at the time this would not have deterred me.

Could be that the new laws were all that was needed to reach the tipping point. The proverbial last straw. Ecological systems are often like that. The population gets stressed, but outside observers never notice all the small contributing factors until the population crashes, and ecologists go looking for a smoking gun. They usually never find it, though, because it wasn't just one thing, it was many things.

As far as the "politically correct" comment, I can't agree with that at all. I've never cared what other folks thought was the right thing to do or say, only that I did what I thought was the right thing. In this case, as a former smoker (been almost two years now) I can remember how much I enjoyed lighting up whenever and wherever I wanted to, but it seems like the right thing to do to allow other people to make their own minds up if they want to breathe in my smoke or not in a public place.

Anyway, sorry for continuing the smoking hijack, just wanted to set the record straight about how I really feel about the issue.
 
Sloppy Pockets said:
Maybe I didn't give your argument enough respect. There is some merit in what you are saying here IMO.

I'm sure it may have been a contributing factor. Smoke and pool always went together like ham and eggs. I used to smoke like a fiend, especially back in the days when I was in the bars playing. At one point I smoked an absurd 2-3 packs a day. When the new laws went into effect I found it difficult to want to go to the bars anymore, but I was also at an age when those days were basically over for me. I do think if I was a younger man at the time this would not have deterred me.

Could be that the new laws were all that was needed to reach the tipping point. The proverbial last straw. Ecological systems are often like that. The population gets stressed, but outside observers never notice all the small contributing factors until the population crashes, and ecologists go looking for a smoking gun. They usually never find it, though, because it wasn't just one thing, it was many things.

As far as the "politically correct" comment, I can't agree with that at all. I've never cared what other folks thought was the right thing to do or say, only that I did what I thought was the right thing. In this case, as a former smoker (been almost two years now) I can remember how much I enjoyed lighting up whenever and wherever I wanted to, but it seems like the right thing to do to allow other people to make their own minds up if they want to breathe in my smoke or not in a public place.

Anyway, sorry for continuing the smoking hijack, just wanted to set the record straight about how I really feel about the issue.
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Basically agree. I thought there was more common ground. The PC comment of mine may have been a bit strident, but I do think a lot of people are afraid of inconvenient truths, such as the fact that pool and smoking have gone hand in hand for decades, if not centuries. The curtailment of one cannot help but affect the other, to some degree. If it was just the economy, we'd see golf courses closing by the hundreds. That hasn't happened. Not uncoincidentally, a guy can enjoy a cigar or cigarette on the golf course without breaking the law, obviously because it's outside.

You haven't hijacked anything. It's all related and relevant to this thread, which is the depressed cue market. I would say there are three thuths:

1. Pool rooms have closed at an alarming rate over the past dozen years.

2. The cue market has suffered for several reasons, but largely due to the decline above.

3. The curtailment of individual liberties has consequences. Might vary place to place, but there are consequences.

For anyone needing further reference on number 3, suggest the writings of the founding fathers of this country. I believe they strongly concurred.
 
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I can see where it might be, for International buyers that have to deal with USD exchange.

I paid for 12 tips today. $245, with $11 included for shipping. $335 Canadian.

Canadian to American.

It will definitely be my last purchase for some time.
 
Imho, the market is oversupplied. No real evidence of that, but lots of new cues getting made and the sport isn't growing fast enough to keep up.

Also how many ppl really want to pay 2k+ for a stick they actually plan on using. As much as I would like a southwest or tascarella I'd be scared to death to use it
 
Golf is in big trouble for many other reasons. I can list but it would be non productive for this thread. However, there was a nice segment on 60 minutes about two months ago about it. Smoking and issues with pool have nothing to do with golf or its problems.
 
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