Funny, I think of the times I was getting into trouble as the times I was providing the most clarification - just in places where it was least welcome.
pj
chgo
Question about intentional swerve
- Thread starter bdorman
- Start date
pj
chgo
Well stated.
If the swoop believers still think they can do something with a swoop stroke that can't be done with a regular stroke, the experiment demonstrated in the video would be fairly easy for them to do to try to prove their point. The thing one must be careful with is keeping the cue level and hitting on the horizontal centerline of the CB in any shot in a comparison. If you hit below center or swoop down during the stroke or elevate the cue, it is easy to create a larger effective english effect, but that would be cheating.
Regards,
Dave
Maybe the answer lies in the question or vice versa....
I´m Swedish but my understanding of your words says something really important imo.
When the game rises to another level is when we understand that the cue doesn´t need to be level (level to what?, depends of what view), that there is nothing that is diffucult just a matter of training to do what needs to be done.
I havn´t mastered the sweeping, swooping in a fluid motion etc but going from the inside to the outside is a 1 for me to do it imo.
Go in with TOI and then pivot out and shoot. Doing that with a 1/2 a tip pivot gives me a 1 diamond angle. Doing that with Parallell I will have to go in with 1 tip side.
This is "approximately".
Do the same pivot with a draw shot you will change the angle backwards, very effective and true imo. "Be one with the angle"
.Love deflection, love swerve, love throw and use it to you benefit imo. Move the tip in different angles just not to the side but up and down.
Regards
Chrippa
Thanks, Dr. Dave for your comments. I was limited on time in my first set of trial strokes, hence the "short" experiment phrase. Despite the controls being limited in my trial strokes, the applications were my main concern.
I appreciate your exhaustive research on the subject and your commitment to detail. It's easy for me to just armchair your results and find small irregularities and inconsistencies, but that isn't my purpose with my responses.
I actually DID
The ultimate answer is, like I said, get Larry Nevel on video with his swipe stroke. That'll be truly, what is possible for a human to do.That begs another caveat for your parameters...you showed us what mere mortals are capable of doing. :grin-square:
Best,
Mike
I guess I'm labeled a swoop believer because I added a "possible" comment to your body of work. Please reread my post above and notice the emphasis, mine. It was a thought and only that. I wasn't denigrating or arguing the research.
FWIW, I rarely employ a swoop stroke and cue rarely even using BHE. On extreme shots, I pre pivot with BHE then, and only then. I was only interested in the concept and was initially interested in new findings.
Thanks for the new moniker and your contribution to the knowledge base.
Best,
Mike
Both of these (1/2 tip and 1 tip) are actually the same - you're just measuring the TOI (swoop?) version from the wrong angle. You have to measure from the direction the tip is traveling at contact.
pj
chgo
Well PJ, you will just have to try and take it to the table to figure it out.
I wish you a great experience trying by doing
.Chrippa
I'll do that right after you've tested it in an objective way.Well PJ, you will just have to try and take it to the table to figure it out.
I wish you a great experience trying by doing
Chrippa
I wish you a great experience learning by testing.
pj
chgo
TOI at slow speeds is just "inside english"
TOI at slow speeds is just "inside english" - one of the requirements to use TOI is a moderate cue speed, with quick, accelerating, contact.
It doesn't matter though, the point is you can use inside english using the TOI method and not have to adjust your aim.....although sometimes I'll favor more inside the pocket's line using the '3 Part Pocket System'.
TOI at slow speeds is just "inside english" - one of the requirements to use TOI is a moderate cue speed, with quick, accelerating, contact.
It doesn't matter though, the point is you can use inside english using the TOI method and not have to adjust your aim.....although sometimes I'll favor more inside the pocket's line using the '3 Part Pocket System'.
How about 1-pixel width computer-drawn lines?
They're hard to see because they are only 1 pixel in thickness, and because I had to change the opacity of the top two layers so you could see all three layers at once.
The yellow line is a line drawn along the right side of the shaft with the cue at its furthest point back during the back stroke
The green line is a line drawn along the shaft as the tip struck the ball
The pink line is a line drawn at the end of the follow through
Pretty easy for me to see that there was no significant tip rise at any point up to contact. From there it can be a bit confusing because of the perspective. It's possible that the butt drops as the tip rises, and it's also possible that the butt moves to the left and the tip moves to the right. Or it could be any combo of the two.
One thing is clear at any rate. Almost all of the cue deviation occurred after contact.
Attachments
I thought you were never again going to post in a thread that I post in... & here you are 'quoting' me 16 pages later & making a post to me after what seems like much effort to produce a 'visual' that contradicts 3kushn.
I'll just leave it to the general readership to determine if they can see what you say you see & make a determination on their own based on that camera angle & that 'quality of video or blurred 'stills' from video.
I'll just add that there are reasons why certain videos are not allowed as evidence in courts of law.
Best 2 You & Yours,
Rick
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Just can't admit when you are wrong, can you Rick? :thud:
Thanks for taking the time to make the clip SloppyPockets.
I can't pick out the colors on my monitor, but going by your description of their location, I can just figure out their placement.
No significant tip rise at any point up to tip contact...yet the forward roll is fairly well shown on the track you drew of the cue ball. In fact, it looks like a bug when the lights got turned on. I'd have to think about that one.
Best,
Mike
video is 480p likely 30fps... completely useless for either camp especially based on the camera angle.......
I can't see the cue stick well enough to make much of an opinion on this picture. I just see the results of the cue ball track. Too close to call on the actual stroke.
Best,
Mike
That's what I've been saying but you said it much more clearly & bluntly than I did.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Yeah Mike,
See Renfro Chris's post. Yet earlier in the thread I think 3kusin said that he tried a method that Colin suggested & could not make the shot in 10 tries but made it 6 for 6 with his 'upstroke' or something like that, but I could be wrong about that as that was many moons ago I don't have as good of access to certain files as did when I was young, which was many many many moons ago.:wink:
I forgot what I ate for dinner. Can't help ya'! :grin-square:
I caught Chris' comments. I remember trying to count frames with the baseball swing for mucho hours. Nearly impossible without the right equipment. You tube videos skip a lot of frames.
Best,
Mike
Best to me and mine? Lol!
Do you really think I believe you mean that? Do you really think the people who own this board, or those who have been given the privilege to moderate it believe you mean that? And yet, you persist in playing the same childish games over and over again, as if to imply that they are ignorant of your attempts to get over on them.
Let me ask you, how does it feel to live just one inappropriate comment away from extinction on this board?
Yeah Mike,
I bought one of the first VHS recorders where you had to carry the recorder & the camera. It cost me over $2,000 in 1981. Later on I tried to use it to look at slow motion, a feature that it had but then to stop it to show something was virtually useless as it would take forever to get the right 'frame' & then it would be distorted.
Later when they came out with the 8mm camcorders that came in handy when teaching my son golf as the quality was better & it was easier to use.
Did you coach baseball? We won a middle school championship the first year that I went from pitching & 1st. base coach to head coach.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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I had a few different cameras, but nothing too outrageous. I got by with the basics. I could see what I needed to see in slo-mo and recorded it for the players. I'd point out things for them in their swings and then give them some video of a pro swing that had what they needed to think about at home.
I worked long hours and didn't have a lot of time, but coached up through high school and older players. I used to deal with the school coaches and take the players in the off season to keep them playing together. We'd work on what the coaches wanted and I'd add my swing training into their regimen.
We travelled around, won one state championship, and played every sandlot and stadium we could find. Glory days! :grin: I wish it would've never ended.
Best,
Mike