unknown cue on Ebay Fellini case and Paradise?

R

RingKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
---Photos with out wrap on page four---

EDIT More pictures in 5th post down on this page

JUST PICKED UP THE CUE TODAY HERE ARE SOME GOOD PICS. JOINT IS NICKLE SILVER HAS THAT SLIGHT GOLDISH HUE AND ABSOLUTLY NO MAGNET ATTRACTION AT ALL. EVERY ONE OF MY STAINLESS STEEL JOINTS HAVE A VERY SLIGHT MAGNETIC ATTRACTION BUT THIS ONE DOES NOT.

AT FIRST I THOUGHT THERE WERE KNICKS UNDER THE WRAP BUT UPON CLOSER INSPECTION THERE ARE ROUGHLY A DOZEN VERY SHALLOW DIMPLES SPERATICALLY AND PURPOSEFULLY CREATED UNDER THE WRAP.
THINKING OF TAKING THE WRAP OFF SHOULD I?

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MORE PICS BELOW IN 5TH POST DOWN
 
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To me it looks like a Eugene Balner made ebony forearm from the early to mid 1960's (I'm pretty sure) but I don't think it's a Palmer, so I would also say the odds that it's a Paradise are very good. This could be a good pick up but it's going to be hard to authenticate with certainty without history. The seller knows cues very well, so that would be my only real hesitation. It could also be another cue maker of the era who used a Palmer forearm.
 
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Definitely a Fellini, no question about that. It could be a Frank Paradise cue, but would need way better pictures to be able to tell.
 
More new pics

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SHE FEELS REAL SOLID JUST A LITTLE CRUSTY AND DIRTY.
 
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RingKing said:
I found this old listing without pics but has good description. Right after it ends the seller of the current cue gets a positive feedback from this seller, so I think this is where the cue came from.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5665c8206d

What concerns me is the original listing says it has a stainless steel joint, and I cant tell if the joint is stainless or brass in the current listing.

I think Paradise cues usually have brass joints don't they?
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This point came up recently in another thread - Frank, at times, used Nickel Silver, which
looks lots like Stainless. If it is SS it is likely not original(IF it is a Paradise).

Dale
 
pdcue said:
This point came up recently in another thread - Frank, at times, used Nickel Silver, which
looks lots like Stainless. If it is SS it is likely not original(IF it is a Paradise).

Dale
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Correct.

What I don't quite understand is why Bogey (Chris) would write a lame description like this:

" Bought this old cue and case at an estate sale in New Jersey. Case has tag that says "Fellini". Brought cue to some pool halls. People who saw it said they think it could be a Paradise. There are no markings that says it is, so for the auctions sake we'll call it "unknown maker". One shaft seems pretty straight, one has a wobble. Tip missing on one of the shafts. Some of the string coming off the wrapping. Cool old cue. All sales final. Message me any questions and I'll try to answer. Good luck bidding all. "

He pretty much knows cues as well as anybody here - I would classify him as an expert. It doesn't sound like his writing at all.
 
TATE said:
Correct.

What I don't quite understand is why Bogey (Chris) would write a lame description like this:

" Bought this old cue and case at an estate sale in New Jersey. Case has tag that says "Fellini". Brought cue to some pool halls. People who saw it said they think it could be a Paradise. There are no markings that says it is, so for the auctions sake we'll call it "unknown maker". One shaft seems pretty straight, one has a wobble. Tip missing on one of the shafts. Some of the string coming off the wrapping. Cool old cue. All sales final. Message me any questions and I'll try to answer. Good luck bidding all. "

He pretty much knows cues as well as anybody here - I would classify him as an expert. It doesn't sound like his writing at all.
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He is not answering the questions thoroughly either does not give length weight. Very odd listing.
 
RingKing said:
He is not answering the questions thoroughly either does not give length weight. Very odd listing.
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Almost like someone else is on his account. If you're bidding I would PM him here on AZ (same screen name) before paying him.
 
TATE said:
Correct.

What I don't quite understand is why Bogey (Chris) would write a lame description like this:

" Bought this old cue and case at an estate sale in New Jersey. Case has tag that says "Fellini". Brought cue to some pool halls. People who saw it said they think it could be a Paradise. There are no markings that says it is, so for the auctions sake we'll call it "unknown maker". One shaft seems pretty straight, one has a wobble. Tip missing on one of the shafts. Some of the string coming off the wrapping. Cool old cue. All sales final. Message me any questions and I'll try to answer. Good luck bidding all. "

He pretty much knows cues as well as anybody here - I would classify him as an expert. It doesn't sound like his writing at all.
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I don't know the seller but I do know that I go out of my way to be vague on ebay. Especially with something that isn't obviously stamped or maker marked. So many of these buyers think they know everything...even if they're wrong. By being matter of fact about things you just open yourself up to these know-it-alls to extort you for partial refunds or straight up scams.

...and we all know ebay doesn't care about the best interest of the sellers.
 
I hope it all works out for the buyer but I would not have bid
after seeing the link when it sold in June/2014.
 
Straight up lie about the whole auction, from a supposedly big cue dealer with vast knowledge and experience. Sounds more like a two bit con artist looking to score.
 
Be more careful about using the term "big cue dealer", big cue flipper, maybe more accurate. Chris may have an idea who made it, but I don't think he is being dishonest when he says he doesn't know. Since I know pool rooms, are full of walking wanna-be cue-gurus, I am sure he was told it was a Paradise by quite a few guys.

BTW you say two bit con artist looking to score, but why does a two bit con artist get to score? In this case, its because of the buyer wanting to "score". However the buyer should have asked the "cue consultants" (lol).

Seriously, the case is worth a few hundred, so someone paid over a grand for probably an older Karl Meyer, or Rich/Masecraft out of NY.

Education costs money, and the buyer just skipped a grade.

JV

PRED said:
Straight up lie about the whole auction, from a supposedly big cue dealer with vast knowledge and experience. Sounds more like a two bit con artist looking to score.
Click to expand...
 
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It appears he bought the cue on ebay for a few hundred and added a fellini to spice up the auction. Who would keep a crappy cue in a fellini. I think that is why some of us are thinking he may be dishonest. He also said it was purchased at an estate sale in New Jersey but the ebay sale states it came from Staten Island. Shady if you ask me.
 
The original listing also calls it a titlist forearm. Does this cue have a titlist forearm?

JV


RingKing said:
I found this old listing without pics but has good description. Right after it ends the seller of the current cue gets a positive feedback from this seller, so I think this is where the cue came from.

http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-5...773?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5665c8206d

What concerns me is the original listing says it has a stainless steel joint, and I cant tell if the joint is stainless or brass in the current listing.

I think Paradise cues usually have brass joints don't they?
Click to expand...
 
rjb1168 said:
It appears he bought the cue on ebay for a few hundred and added a fellini to spice up the auction. Who would keep a crappy cue in a fellini. I think that is why some of us are thinking he may be dishonest. He also said it was purchased at an estate sale in New Jersey but the ebay sale states it came from Staten Island. Shady if you ask me.
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The problem is even if he was "being honest" and put a more accurate description once the buyer receives the cue they can now claim to be an expert and state that the cue is not what the seller says it was and demand a partial refund or receive negative feedback. This is easily done because there are no definitive maker markings.

This kind of negotiating where they hold feedback as hostage for a partial refund is how the ebay game is played. I'm almost certain this is why the seller remained vague and put the onus on the buyer to determine what they were purchasing instead of making claims that could easily be disputed...and its not like ebay is going to call in an expert witness.

I restore pipes and run into this all the time. Some stampings on pipes get removed either prior to or during a thorough restoration. Even though I know I'm restoring an extremely worn out 90 dollar Savinelli there are no marking to prove its one. They buyer knows its a Sav but then claims that its a Dr. Grabow not a Savinelli as claimed and demands a 50% refund.

No markings = unknown.

That changes when ebay starts to protect the sellers. Which will be never.
 
Best guess that I have seen in this post is Karl Meyer cue, The bottom rings look like his as does the joint on both ends, $150 cue probably. Did some research on Karl awhile back when one of his cues came in an authentic Mosconi signed box cue case - Karl's cues were mainly in NJ/PA area.
 
classiccues said:
The original listing also calls it a titlist forearm. Does this cue have a titlist forearm?

JV
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I had to get the magnifying glass out for this one, and the picture quality is tough. But, I don't think it's a Titlist forearm. Instead, I see from the outside in, green, maple, red-ish purple, and then another maple veneer, which are not the Titlist colors.

Also, another factor here is the joint collars. Although Frank did some black collars, usually when he did a fancier cue with inlays, he used his more usual off-white collars with one black ring on the outsides. I more and more come to the opinion that it's not a Paradise, even though the two-tone wrap was a signature option of his.
 
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