Robin,
You try different aim systems with different teachers until they click in. I think your new Pool Power Shot System is simple to learn and to follow, for one nice example.
Fear of Feel
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
Robin,
You try different aim systems with different teachers until they click in. I think your new Pool Power Shot System is simple to learn and to follow, for one nice example.
Thanks and Pool School
Thanks Matt,
When is your pool school you are doing and do you have any estimation of how many you might be getting before hand?
Thanks Matt,
When is your pool school you are doing and do you have any estimation of how many you might be getting before hand?
It's a moving target. I won a state championship against a field of several hundred 35 years ago. Thought I could play then. But the Lou of today could give the Lou of 35 years ago a ton of weight, so its all relative.
Lou Figueroa
Thinking is good and even feel layers think up to the point of actually being in shooting position. Then it's feel.
However, I think what happens is that newer players players think with the left side of their brain -- the logical, analytical, rational side of the house. As the player gains experience and (hopefully), confidence, then more and more, the right side of the brain takes over analyzing the process -- the intuitive, thoughtful, more subjective side of the house. If you listen to yourself on a new task/shot you can hear the internal words of instruction. Once you've got it, there are no words, but the thinking is still going on, on the other side.
Lou Figueroa
However, I think what happens is that newer players players think with the left side of their brain -- the logical, analytical, rational side of the house. As the player gains experience and (hopefully), confidence, then more and more, the right side of the brain takes over analyzing the process -- the intuitive, thoughtful, more subjective side of the house. If you listen to yourself on a new task/shot you can hear the internal words of instruction. Once you've got it, there are no words, but the thinking is still going on, on the other side.
Lou Figueroa
Nice Post!
That was a nice post Gary and its good to see someone else in the conversation.
That was a nice post Gary and its good to see someone else in the conversation.
Its progressive...your right
Yeah Lou I agree. When I gambled the most I was young and really couldn't play a lick compared to now but I was playing others that couldn't play a lick either so its action but its relative in terms of how well one plays that is certainly progressive.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I would hypothesize that if people felt as if they were making sustainable, steady progress they might feel more inclined to enjoy the game if they were able to feel that way sooner. It would be my hope anyway.
Yeah Lou I agree. When I gambled the most I was young and really couldn't play a lick compared to now but I was playing others that couldn't play a lick either so its action but its relative in terms of how well one plays that is certainly progressive.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I would hypothesize that if people felt as if they were making sustainable, steady progress they might feel more inclined to enjoy the game if they were able to feel that way sooner. It would be my hope anyway.
:thumbup2::thumbup2::thumbup2:
Good Post, Gary.
Also, as I've inferred, some can have a parameter of feel from the get go & merely need to learn the simple parameters of the game as the game is new to them so as to refine it specifically for the game.
Consider young people like children. They can learn rather young to hit a baseball, tennis ball, or golf ball. Some of that is hand eye & 'body part' coordination (athletic ability). Yet when the ball is not moving, as in golf they can close their eyes & still hit the ball. I have had my children & some other children do just that. It is a means of increasing one's focus on their 'feel' of the swing & the different components of the swing & how the ball feels on the clubhead. It increases awareness.
The human 'mind' is an amazing 'entity'.
Also, as I think I've said, but perhaps I did not hit submit on this one, I think there may be & probably are different parameters of what we are calling 'feel' & the conversation keeps switching from one to another.
Feel may have 5 parameters & we are only talking about maybe 2 or 3.
So if one has a sense of feel (Please note the word 'sense') from the get go, when does it become very fine tuned for the specific task at hand. I started using english at 13 with no instruction or direction so I would say that I was playing with feel almost initially. I'm not exactly sure of when that was fine tuned to a sharp edge nor when it began to diminish, if it truly ever did. I'm not even sure that it has at all. Perhaps there has just become a not as good connection from the feel to the real. Sort of a don't use it as often then loose the connection to it. Gene Albrecht has said a similar thing in reference to seeing the straight line as we age or if we don't play as much regularly.
Just some food for thought & consideration.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
PS Gary, I would say that this post was not to you per say but your post just hit a chord with me.
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For years, I played my friend who is a feel shooter. He has to stroke until he feels its right. When he's on he is very good but when he is off he needs many shots to recover and by then he has lost.
I am a system shooter and only have a bad stroke to blame for missing. The stroke gets better with more shots as well but I seldom lose. I match up well?
I also like using a roadmap, GPS or traffic signs, I get to my destination whereas my friend doesn't and often gets lost.
Bad comparison?
Be well.
I am a system shooter and only have a bad stroke to blame for missing. The stroke gets better with more shots as well but I seldom lose. I match up well?
I also like using a roadmap, GPS or traffic signs, I get to my destination whereas my friend doesn't and often gets lost.
Bad comparison?
Be well.
"Think long, think wrong"
So why do the pro players take sooo looong to shoot. It's brutal watching them play most of the time. Two or three trips around the table on an almost straight in shot.
For years, I played my friend who is a feel shooter. He has to stroke until he feels its right. When he's on he is very good but when he is off he needs many shots to recover and by then he has lost.
I am a system shooter and only have a bad stroke to blame for missing. The stroke gets better with more shots as well but I seldom lose. I match up well?
I also like using a roadmap, GPS or traffic signs, I get to my destination whereas my friend doesn't and often gets lost.
Bad comparison?
Be well.
Hi E,
Perhaps not a bad comparison, but maybe so.
How about if the playing of a game could be quality gauged & not just about the win or loss.
I wonder what it would look like to see a strict system guy's best game vs a feel guy's best game.
As in most things in life balance usually is best.
I think it would be best to have the best of both worlds so that our subconscious could make the decision of which to use when.
He, or She, might tell our conscious mind something like, 'No...no...that does not feel right, perhaps we should use the system here.'. Or...maybe it would say, 'No...no...this does not quite fit the system accurately enough, perhaps we should just go on my feel with this one.'.
The human 'mind' is an amazing 'entity'.
Stay Well & Shoot Well,
Rick
PS There have been great artist that at times just could not paint. I've never heard of a paint by number type that at times could not paint. Those great artist have at times starved while a house painter was eating just fine.
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Perfect Comparison/Ridiculous Argument
Lamas,
Actually this is a perfect comparison and this whole subject is a ridiculous argument. Just think about it and on how many levels this is wrong. I was a feel player myself and I could not gain any strength until started reviewing and making changes to what I did. One day I might play great and 3 days I might play bad. If I played great after eating collard green, boiled eggs and M&M's, thats what I would eat before every match. Feel players that are able to control it are in the minority and this is the point. Even a good friend of mine who is very, very strong and a feel player once you get his goat by firing back at him he starts breaking down. I get stronger the more I play and the more shots I make. The more confident I get the more I make them kick at the ball and it just keeps going.
You just cant get there as easy if you dont have roadmap, or gps or hand written direction otherwise youre looking up in people yards to see if you know them or not....and then stop.
For years, I played my friend who is a feel shooter. He has to stroke until he feels its right. When he's on he is very good but when he is off he needs many shots to recover and by then he has lost.
I am a system shooter and only have a bad stroke to blame for missing. The stroke gets better with more shots as well but I seldom lose. I match up well?
I also like using a roadmap, GPS or traffic signs, I get to my destination whereas my friend doesn't and often gets lost.
Bad comparison?
Be well.
Lamas,
Actually this is a perfect comparison and this whole subject is a ridiculous argument. Just think about it and on how many levels this is wrong. I was a feel player myself and I could not gain any strength until started reviewing and making changes to what I did. One day I might play great and 3 days I might play bad. If I played great after eating collard green, boiled eggs and M&M's, thats what I would eat before every match. Feel players that are able to control it are in the minority and this is the point. Even a good friend of mine who is very, very strong and a feel player once you get his goat by firing back at him he starts breaking down. I get stronger the more I play and the more shots I make. The more confident I get the more I make them kick at the ball and it just keeps going.
You just cant get there as easy if you dont have roadmap, or gps or hand written direction otherwise youre looking up in people yards to see if you know them or not....and then stop.
For years, I played my friend who is a feel shooter. He has to stroke until he feels its right. When he's on he is very good but when he is off he needs many shots to recover and by then he has lost.
I am a system shooter and only have a bad stroke to blame for missing. The stroke gets better with more shots as well but I seldom lose. I match up well?
I also like using a roadmap, GPS or traffic signs, I get to my destination whereas my friend doesn't and often gets lost.
Bad comparison?
Be well.
How bout the option that your friend just sucks at pool?
I never said thinking is feeling
Example...
I have to pocket a ball and travel 3 rails to my next ball.
My next ball is 1 inch off the short rail,12 ft away from my cue ball travel distance, my speed has to be good so I don't land straight (Which is common in this game)
There are 3 balls in my travel lanes. I must play short angle coming out of the second rail to avoid two balls and make sure my cue ball lengthens out coming out of the 3rd rail to avoid the third ball. I also need the speed to come off the short rail and back up six to 10 inches to create angle.
To get position I have to hit it with extreme low right spin with a semi punch stroke, 2 click, to alter my tangent line to shorten the angle.
At the same time I may have two other options to choose from other than the above, now there is more to think about an analyze.
If someone tells me they don't think about all of the above I am calling bullshit, or I am watching them get stuck on one of the three obstacles and giving up the table.
That might be fine in the bar but not when you wear big boy pants.
I can do it, I can think it, I can feel it, and I can shoot it in 10 seconds. Call it what you want, conscious, unconscious. I am not a new kid on the block with the cue ball in my sights. I think about what I am doing, aiming and pocketing is the easy part.
It's great to break down what the brain is doing at any given time. It's all good and well in conversation and writing about it on a pool forum. If you want to play pool you better throw that out the window and play pool.
Many things I read here should be left here and never allowed to the pool table, unless you want to fry your brain , add some bacon.
Also much of the information is great reading and wonderful reasearch for many including myself. I am OCD so how things work is right up my alley, it doesn't mean I take it to the table but I can sit on the rail and discuss the game, which is what we all love to do, hear ourselves talk.
I will say it again, I am a heavy feel player, I think of every aspect of every shot. Compute and shoot.
Put the feel in your head and your brain on your shoulders
Sincerely: SS
Where is Patrick Johnson, he started this mess.
Hi Robin,
IMO:
This is very very far from a "ridiculous argument" & do not think that the comparison is "perfect" at all.
It's a discussion that can be very valid as to how an individual chooses to approach the game for him or her self.
You've made a decision that for whatever reason the guidelines that you have developed for you, work very well for you. Now you are trying to pass them on for others to perhaps benefit. That is certainly all fine, good, & well.
Your method may fit a number of individuals but to think that they will be a fit for every individual & that you have developed a universal means, a holy grail, so to speak, is rather ambitious thinking.
Perhaps you have... & perhaps time will tell so, or not.
You're enthusiastic about the possibility. I would guess that any individual that thinks they might have developed something that can help so many would be.
There have been two posts from two individuals that I would assume both have a passion for the game, with somewhat completely opposing viewpoints.
To call the "argument" "ridiculous" as though the jury has come in & made it's decision is 'ridiculous' IMO.
There is an extreme amount about the human mind that is unknown. in fact, we really know very very little if indeed we 'know' anything about it. Hence a discussion regarding what goes on within the human mind & how it relates to the why or how we are able to perform what most would consider some rather amazing tasks in certainly valid IMO.
Perhaps you misspoke in your enthusiasm. I sincerely hope so.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
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Collard greens tastes better if you have a recipe rather than just boiling it and trying to remember what to add to it.:wink:
adding things people don't say is lying
Rick
I highly disapprove of you adding words to what you think I'm saying when I said no such thing.If you have trouble keeping your mind on what is being you might want to review that this is a Form of lying. I said this argument was ridiculous......what you said I said.....is not true......You and we're unable to discuss via PM because you add something in every time that wasnt a part of the previous conversation. You need to stop making things up...it's lying.
Rick
I highly disapprove of you adding words to what you think I'm saying when I said no such thing.If you have trouble keeping your mind on what is being you might want to review that this is a Form of lying. I said this argument was ridiculous......what you said I said.....is not true......You and we're unable to discuss via PM because you add something in every time that wasnt a part of the previous conversation. You need to stop making things up...it's lying.
E,
Not too long ago I was having dinner at a country club for my sister's-in-law birthday. I ordered a filet that came with green beans & baby boiled potatoes.
I was born in New Orleans & have lived in the area my whole life so I have had some rather amazing meals. This steak & potatoes meal was so delicious & especially different that I wanted to & did pay my compliments to the chef. Because he was so busy & could not come out, I asked & went to the kitchen to pay him my compliments. He told me that he really appreciated it because to get such a compliment from such a simple meal showed that his efforts to make each dish something special was indeed being appreciated.
There is a simple recipe for cooking steak & potatoes. What this guy did with it was art. I doubt he followed any standard recipe. I'm rather sure he created his own way. It may very well be a recipe now, but at one time I am rather sure that it was individual only to him. Also in cooking, one must actually taste it to make completely sure that the ingredients are in proper balance. Following a recipe is no guarantee the results will be worth a compliment.:wink:
Best 2 Ya & Stay Well,
Rick
Robin,
I highly disapprove of you inferring that I am lying about anything.
If I have made an honest mistake, then please point it out & correct my mistake.
But please do not infer that I am intentionally lying.
I thought I was rather complimentary to you.
Obviously you've taken umbrage regarding something. For whatever it is, I apologize.
However, I just do not think this whole "argument" is "ridiculous" as you stated.
I even suggested that perhaps in your enthusiasm you might have misspoken. That would have been a good opportunity to correct any possible misunderstanding on my part.
Instead you chose to insult me.
I am not a liar. I am not lying. Lying is an intentional act. So...even if I misstated something or miscategorized something that certainly does not qualify it as a lie. It was an honest mistake. One that perhaps is based on a misunderstanding.
Please point out where I have made that mistake & my possible misunderstanding so as to make it all clear.
Best Wishes to You & Yours,
Rick
PS I hereby again offer my apology, as you calling me a liar would certainly suggest that I HAVE misinterpreted something that is of importance to you.
PPS However, please also note that I started my previous post with IMO followed by a colon such as "IMO:". That indicates that I am not stating anything as fact but merely my interpretation, take, or opinion.
Edit: In re-reading my post a few times, I think I may see where something I said may have been taken by you (& perhaps others could do so too) as if I were saying that you had said such. I did NOT say that you said anything but I see where what I said is not clear & might be taken incorrectly. I'll wait for you to reply, as that may not be it.
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IMHO, there are TOO MANY people on here who "try to" or "somehow manage to" put words into other people's mouths.
That is one of the MAIN things I hate about watching the news on TV and you can pick ANY channel you want. For example: President Obama (or you name the leader) makes a speech or statement and then the EXPERTS (Wolf Blitzer, Bill O"Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc.) try to tell you what he said. It doesn't matter what the person says, the "interpreter" will tell you what he REALLY said or MEANT to say.
I'm the kind of person who listens to the "person who makes the statement" and then I interpret my own "what did he say?" opinion.
I spent MANY years as a "communicator" and our instructions were to "never take away from the message or add anything to the message". You deliver the message EXACTLY as the originator created it and let the "receiver" figure out the meaning. You were trained SPECIFICALLY to "weed out" versions of the message that had been "tainted" or "perverted" by "middle men".
That is one of the MAIN things I hate about watching the news on TV and you can pick ANY channel you want. For example: President Obama (or you name the leader) makes a speech or statement and then the EXPERTS (Wolf Blitzer, Bill O"Reilly, Rush Limbaugh, etc., etc.) try to tell you what he said. It doesn't matter what the person says, the "interpreter" will tell you what he REALLY said or MEANT to say.
I'm the kind of person who listens to the "person who makes the statement" and then I interpret my own "what did he say?" opinion.
I spent MANY years as a "communicator" and our instructions were to "never take away from the message or add anything to the message". You deliver the message EXACTLY as the originator created it and let the "receiver" figure out the meaning. You were trained SPECIFICALLY to "weed out" versions of the message that had been "tainted" or "perverted" by "middle men".