Pool's "Best Practices"
- Thread starter Patrick Johnson
- Start date
It's seems like you guys trying to teach pool that can't really play pool....ironic isn't it?
The real irony is in the top quote. Projection can be your friend.
Nothing gets by here without the scratch and kick test...unless it's put out by somebody other than you, CJ.
After getting repeatedly abused by the usual suspects, keeping us and our wallets safe from your mystically incorrect posts, don't be unprofessional and immature like they are with a negative retort. How many of them nip at your heels on every post?
If you had a clue about this game, you'd just shut up and read their posts. You may learn something and what it takes to be a real world champion. I'd like to be in the room when that discussion comes up about your credentials. It's much safer behind a keyboard. Has anybody ever told you to your face you're not a world champion? Takes balls, doesn't it? :thumbup: View attachment 381380
Best,
Mike
1. I don't "recommend" feel - I point out that it's inescapable.
2 Feel is not "just do what you like intuitively".
You don't really get this stuff, do you?
pj
chgo
Actually, you don't get this stuff and haven't for the last 17 years. Nor do you get it regarding when to allow those who do have superior knowledge over you to be able to distribute it in peace without your interference.
But in your mind nobody has superior knowledge above yours. Therein lies the problem.
Btw, I do think "feel" for the stroke is inescapable unless you turn the head around to watch what you're doing in mid stroke to make corrections.
It doesn't matter whether it's the pendulum stroke, pump or piston, slipstroke, strokeslip, punch stroke, jab stroke, slow soft stroke, jump or masse stroke, BHE swipestroke, Hopkins stroke, Bustamante, or Reyes stroke...they are ALL 100% FEEL and where FEEL is most important once learned and ingrained.
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Yes but that was before I saw what Bob had written on the topic and then I did some additional research on my own. It's true that there are some who refer to the motion itself as a push or a pull motion. I've read many comments about it in various sports online, but it's not the scientific definition as far as I can tell, so I've yielded to Bob's opinion at this time. However, my opinion concerning the location of where the load should be considered, at the point where the hand meets the cue, stands strong at this point.
I will continue to research the topic and will continue to study other sports in this area.
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My thinking, as in my original post, is that I agree with you & Fran. I added a part about pronation & supination.
Since we are biomechanical beings & not precisely built robotic machines, our arms hang down in their natural manner, yet we are individuals & the angle of each individual's hand to the body may be slightly different. Depending on how we connect to the cue could effect what we 'feel' we are doing when.
CJ does not particularly like the term but with the hand rather on top of the cue, to me, there is a sense of making a 'stabbing' motion. A double pointed spear sort of placed on the bottom of the hand we would first be stabbing behind us. Then as the motion goes forward we would be stabbing out in front. I only used the double points to differentiate for direction purposes with the hand between with no 'load' but instead a purpose of direction.
I doubt that anyone using a full pendulum swing would easily relate to what I just said.
Take out the spear pointing back & then just picture a spear with the point out in front like the tip. We pull the spear back to get distance from which to thrust the spear forward. That goes against what I said earlier in my original post about pushing back away from our body.
It's all about relativity as in Einstein's Theory of Relativity. Well...not exactly but the point is that the English language is a bit lacking at times.
If I picked up a spear & thrust it into an animal skin hanging to dry & then gave it to you & said, "UGGG" & made a hand motion, you would know what I meant.
To me, there is much that exists that the motion that causes the cue to move like a piston can be associated. I, for one, & there obviously are others, don't easily see much that a pendulum swing can truly be associated as it relates to moving a straight implement 'straight'.
Perhaps, take a spear or a sword & swing the arm back & then thrust it, the sword, spear, or cue stick forward. But that would pivot at the shoulder & that wrist sort of changes things as it tries yo keep the point from going to the ground so the spear, sword, or cue stick can be thrust forward & not swung up to the sky on the forward thrusting motion.
Would it be fair to describe a stroke that moves the implement in a thrusting or piston movement as an athletic motion & the pendulum swing as a mentally contrived nonathletic mechanical motion?
I know one seems to sound better but that's not the point, as I said the English language is sometimes lacking.
This post started out to you & then went rhetorical. Sorry.
Also it just some my thoughts & naturally could only be considered as my opinions.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
PS I believe & think that how we connect to the cue should dictate how we move the cue stick so as to not be fighting against one another. Depending on how we connect to the cue & move it, perhaps there should be an associated turning or twisting of the cue, I know I have seen some rather good players that do just that. They have a twist to their delivery of the cue, but as I said that may be more of an individual thing given the angle the arm naturally hangs.
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Thanks Tony.:thumbup:
Oppps, perhaps I was bit hasty. I went right by the word "hope" & thought you said think. How do I add a snap finger shucks emoticon?
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Where is the start point for a stroke? Is not where the cue tip is when the placed near the CB?
The push/pull debate really is not about the relation to the body, but where the start point for a stroke is.
Kinda like TDC ....top dead center....and BDC bottom dead center in the stroke of a piston where the piston is pushed/pulled.
Stroke has a start point and a stop point when just considering the movement of the cue, which is like a piston rod.
Start point of the stroke is the cue moving away from, being pulled/pushed back, from the CB to a stop point where the cue changes direction back, moving toward the CB....pushed/puuled... to the start point.....ie practice strokes.
Repeat as necessary until the final stroke where the cue tip goes past the start point.
In a engine, that would be the piston hitting the head....not good.
What is really being discuss is not best practices, but standardized teaching programs for learning pool.
The push/pull debate really is not about the relation to the body, but where the start point for a stroke is.
Kinda like TDC ....top dead center....and BDC bottom dead center in the stroke of a piston where the piston is pushed/pulled.
Stroke has a start point and a stop point when just considering the movement of the cue, which is like a piston rod.
Start point of the stroke is the cue moving away from, being pulled/pushed back, from the CB to a stop point where the cue changes direction back, moving toward the CB....pushed/puuled... to the start point.....ie practice strokes.
Repeat as necessary until the final stroke where the cue tip goes past the start point.
In a engine, that would be the piston hitting the head....not good.
What is really being discuss is not best practices, but standardized teaching programs for learning pool.
:thumbup2: :thumbup2: :thumbup2:
I would just change that word 'learning' to 'teaching'.
That said, the method may be a good fit for some & what their capabilities are. But it should not be the immediate go to method or even a starting point for all or even most individuals. IMO, as is all of this post, it should be a fall back to method if one is not capable of the more in line piston method of which you referred.
I forgot what golf instructor said, 'I may not be able to build a Major Championship Winner out of anyone but I can certainly ruin one if I'm not careful.'.
Best 2 You & All,
Rick
Have we figured out whether we are pushing or pulling the cue yet? I'm going to play some today and I want to make sure I don't injure myself with the cue or hurt anybody. I don't have pool insurance.
If this is the way pool is "taught", I'd rather watch and figure it out myself like I did initially when I first began.
There are over 100 posts and people are still arguing about it.
Throw a baby bottle on the floor in front of a little baby who is crying. Does the baby pull the bottle toward itself or push it in their mouth. Answer is: It DOESN'T make a FVCK! The baby is smart enough to get the bottle into their mouth and then "push" or throw it back on the floor when they are done. If a baby can figure out a motion and accomplish a task without reading 100 posts on here, why can't people stroke a cue in the appropriate direction without arguing about it?
Aloha. Just asking.
If this is the way pool is "taught", I'd rather watch and figure it out myself like I did initially when I first began.
There are over 100 posts and people are still arguing about it.
Throw a baby bottle on the floor in front of a little baby who is crying. Does the baby pull the bottle toward itself or push it in their mouth. Answer is: It DOESN'T make a FVCK! The baby is smart enough to get the bottle into their mouth and then "push" or throw it back on the floor when they are done. If a baby can figure out a motion and accomplish a task without reading 100 posts on here, why can't people stroke a cue in the appropriate direction without arguing about it?
Aloha. Just asking.
The only ones making statements like you have above are those that have no idea what instructors actually teach. And those that are only on an agenda to discredit instructors. Almost every instructor on here has stated that they tailor the instruction to the student. NONE have stated that is the only way to play the game.
I thought think would convey the wrong meaning.
It has nothing to do with how people are taught to play. It's just some arguing over semantics.
Let's look at pushing and pulling from a sex standpoint when copulating with a woman.
You're right at the pearly gates ready to enter. Will you be pushing your way in or pulling your way in? When you reverse gears will you be pushing or pulling?
Or will she be pulling you in and pushing you out?
What does this have to do with pool? A matter of perspective I guess.
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