Coring dowel clearance ?

Joey,

That is a very good method if you want a ring out of your cues as I know is your preference and that's cool.

If you wish to have a subdued or quieter hit, GG is the way to go. There is a difference that can be felt and heard when you hit a cue ball for sure especially when using a solid cored cue on a single maple dowel end to end. Night and day.

Could you please explain why there would be a difference in hit, that's dependent on the adhesive choice?

I use poly glue for coring, and "subdued" & "quiet" aren't exactly traits my cues are known for. I have used epoxy, yellow glue, and various poly glues to core with and while I found both faults & pros with all, the hit of cue was never a variable. Like everything else in cues, I found it wasn't so much what you use, but how you use it.

Poly is the easiest, and for me is the best because it doesn't require mixing, and I can use tight tolerances. Expansion or foaming should NEVER happen between core & bore. If it does, then my tolerance is far too sloppy & the piece would be useless. When cured, it should be every bit as hard as epoxy. The idea behind coring is to unify two pieces of wood to create one. The only way to accomplish that task is with good tolerances, regardless of adhesive. Once cured, the piece should resonate as a single piece of wood. IMO, it should do that before glue is even applied, which in essence removes any influence the glue can have beyond bonding.
 
Joey,

That is a very good method if you want a ring out of your cues as I know is your preference and that's cool.

If you wish to have a subdued or quieter hit, GG is the way to go. There is a difference that can be felt and heard when you hit a cue ball for sure especially when using a solid cored cue on a single maple dowel end to end. Night and day.

The amount of money difference between West 105 207 and GG is pennies.

JMO,

Rick
If it is quieter, then it is resonating less. I actually do not think GG does that . The core wood and the construction has more to do with that .
Sorry, a single piece maple core does not feel as good as two differing density pieces .
A good example would be a sneaky pete with maple front and purpleheart/ebony or bocote points/handle .
The purpleheart/bocote or ebony pointed/bottom will give the all maple butt the 7-out. Worse, you'd have to add more weight at the bottom to get it to 19 oz. Resulting in less resonance felt in the grip hand.
 
If it is quieter, then it is resonating less. I actually do not think GG does that . The core wood and the construction has more to do with that .
Sorry, a single piece maple core does not feel as good as two differing density pieces .
A good example would be a sneaky pete with maple front and purpleheart/ebony or bocote points/handle .
The purpleheart/bocote or ebony pointed/bottom will give the all maple butt the 7-out. Worse, you'd have to add more weight at the bottom to get it to 19 oz. Resulting in less resonance felt in the grip hand.

Joey,

There is more to it than one point of view on this subject. We are all entitled to our own points of view.

Lower frequency transmits to the hand and arm also and some people don't like noisy cues and some people use the sound as part of their measured stroke.

Thats what make choices for people and what makes the world go round.

If you took 1000 people and put them in time square with pool cue knowledge and went on a megaphone and asked, "who makes the best playing cue you will get 20 or 30 different answers, no doubt.

If you get the 3 C billiards crowd there and asked the same question, over 50% would say Ray Schuler. The rest would say Longoni and one or two others.

So pool people are all over the place because they have a lot choices.

Nothing is the correct way because Rick or Joey thinks that is the do all to end all. The market knows all in the end. There is room for a all sorts of in between.

JMO,

Rick
 
Joey,

There is more to it than one point of view on this subject. We are all entitled to our own points of view.

Lower frequency transmits to the hand and arm also and some people don't like noisy cues and some people use the sound as part of their measured stroke.

Thats what make choices for people and what makes the world go round.

If you took 1000 people and put them in time square with pool cue knowledge and went on a megaphone and asked, "who makes the best playing cue you will get 20 or 30 different answers, no doubt.

If you get the 3 C billiards crowd there and asked the same question, over 50% would say Ray Schuler. The rest would say Longoni and one or two others.

So pool people are all over the place because they have a lot choices.

Nothing is the correct way because Rick or Joey thinks that is the do all to end all. The market knows all in the end. There is room for a all sorts of in between.

JMO,

Rick

I've never met anyone who claimed all maple house cue hits better than purpleheart or bocote bottomed house cue.
 
Joey,

There is more to it than one point of view on this subject. We are all entitled to our own points of view.

Lower frequency transmits to the hand and arm also and some people don't like noisy cues and some people use the sound as part of their measured stroke.

Thats what make choices for people and what makes the world go round.

If you took 1000 people and put them in time square with pool cue knowledge and went on a megaphone and asked, "who makes the best playing cue you will get 20 or 30 different answers, no doubt.

If you get the 3 C billiards crowd there and asked the same question, over 50% would say Ray Schuler. The rest would say Longoni and one or two others.

So pool people are all over the place because they have a lot choices.

Nothing is the correct way because Rick or Joey thinks that is the do all to end all. The market knows all in the end. There is room for a all sorts of in between.

JMO,

Rick

Rick, you made a statement.... ..."If you wish to have a subdued or quieter hit, GG is the way to go. There is a difference that can be felt and heard when you hit a cue ball for sure especially when using a solid cored cue on a single maple dowel end to end. Night and day."
I don't agree with this blanket statement, as I use a solid one piece core, whether it be maple, purpleheart, etc.. and use a poly glue , and the hit is not quiet or subdued. The tighter the tolerances, the less the type of glue really matters, IMO. I prefer a solid feedback in the handle when I hit the cueball and Poly glues can provide that if all is done correctly. Joey basically asked why you thought this way and you just went soft and did a "blah, blah, blah.... we all have different opinions",.... but you didn't explain why you believe what you stated. Most people really would like to know the thoughts on why the type of glue has an effect on how the cue feels and sound? Did you do any tests, or is this just opinion with no real basis?
I personally have used west systems epoxy,(too expensive) and 2 other slow set epoxies, and 3 different poly type glues and have not felt a difference in the hit or sound once glued and dried. I do not use epoxy because, IMO, it doesn't fill any gaps, nor compensates for absorption like a poly glue does. When boring a burl type wood, there can be internal gaps due to defects and when using epoxy, no matter how much you pour in, can still not fill these gaps, IMO. It also can be squeezed out as you push the core thru,....then as it gets absorbed, it leaves dry spots. My testing showed dry joints using different types of epoxies, especially with burls and other soft woods. I have used 3 types of poly glues, mainly due to most don't last long in the bottle once opened. Elmer's seems to last the longest without solidifying like GG does in half the time and provides a very strong bond. When cut in half, there were no dry areas or gaps and the cores couldn't be pried or hammered out of the cored wood. I have a .008" gap between the core and the bored hole. I do the filed rings and horizontal channels on the core and don't sand it after cutting those in.
Dave.
 
Try the same cue with and without one......

There's no doubt a bumper plays a much more significant role than most folks give credit, but I can't see how it trumps the core. While a bumper can definitely play games with harmonics, that's what its limited to. I use cores to control weight, weight distribution, stiffness, and harmonics. An example is jatoba in maple. It adds a nice ping, lots of stiffness, and increases weight by around 30%. Maple by itself has a smoky ring resonance, a bit lower pitch than jatoba. When combined, you have something in the middle. That's one example of many. Coring can be quite versatile in creating a specific hit & feel. A bumper can dull out or even eliminate the ping, but has no bearing on stiffness or weight. Still a critical component & well worthy of attention, but I don't think makes more difference than a core.

That all said, the bumper most definitely is more critical than the type of adhesive used to core. No doubt.
 
There's no doubt a bumper plays a much more significant role than most folks give credit, but I can't see how it trumps the core. While a bumper can definitely play games with harmonics, that's what its limited to. I use cores to control weight, weight distribution, stiffness, and harmonics. An example is jatoba in maple. It adds a nice ping, lots of stiffness, and increases weight by around 30%. Maple by itself has a smoky ring resonance, a bit lower pitch than jatoba. When combined, you have something in the middle. That's one example of many. Coring can be quite versatile in creating a specific hit & feel. A bumper can dull out or even eliminate the ping, but has no bearing on stiffness or weight. Still a critical component & well worthy of attention, but I don't think makes more difference than a core.

That all said, the bumper most definitely is more critical than the type of adhesive used to core. No doubt.

I'll defer to your experience and thank you for that insight. I always welcome your knowledge Eric. A customer handed me 3 pieces of Koa a few months ago for me to make sisters with...he wants the break cue to weigh in at 23 oz.... I'm giving Ipe a shot...
 
I'll defer to your experience and thank you for that insight. I always welcome your knowledge Eric. A customer handed me 3 pieces of Koa a few months ago for me to make sisters with...he wants the break cue to weigh in at 23 oz.... I'm giving Ipe a shot...
I got some leadwood.
 
A customer handed me 3 pieces of Koa a few months ago for me to make sisters with...he wants the break cue to weigh in at 23 oz.... I'm giving Ipe a shot...

Ipe is a good candidate. If you core both the forearm and handle with it, you should have no issue attaining 23oz.
 
Ipe is a good candidate. If you core both the forearm and handle with it, you should have no issue attaining 23oz.

I'm trying that cuebalance program and, from what I've experienced so far, it's spot on..

With a .750 core, I'll still need weight....
 
I'm trying that cuebalance program and, from what I've experienced so far, it's spot on..

With a .750 core, I'll still need weight....

Can you core larger? And what color is your koa? The color directly relates to density. The darker it is, the heavier it will be. Yellow is the light stuff. And I have no idea what you use for "A" joints, but adding weight there will help.
 
Can you core larger? And what color is your koa? The color directly relates to density. The darker it is, the heavier it will be. Yellow is the light stuff. And I have no idea what you use for "A" joints, but adding weight there will help.

My largest core is .758. A joint is where I intended on adding weight. Koa is brown and "bland" IMO.
 
When I ordered gun drills I bit the bullet and ordered 4. .650 and .6875 for forearms, .775 and .8125 for handles. The 25 thou overs are just about the 50/50 points in terms of volume for a component. The 1/16 overs can help a lot for reducing or adding that bit of extra weight.

I'm sure you can think of this, but you can also counterbore the joint end of the forearm with a normal boring bar right after you use the gun drill and make your core appropriately stepped. It might help add a little more. If the cue is a 3 piece construction, nothing says the sleeve has to be .750 either. Counter bore the rear of the handle and open up the sleeve larger to match. The program supports stepped cores so you could see what net gain you would yield from the work before you throw the goose in the pot.
 
I've never met anyone who claimed all maple house cue hits better than purpleheart or bocote bottomed house cue.

It not my intention to hyjack any thing you can PM if necessary. While coring has been the manner of construction for my first few attempts...(ie not as polished as here) my feeling after playing a year on my first is that there is some truth to having a very dense wood as a handle from a "feel" stand point not necessarily a back of an entire butt.....(again weight is weight the difference in placement is really what is felt and the feeling is more subtile w/denser woods)

Sorry for budding in Jim
 
It not my intention to hyjack any thing you can PM if necessary. While coring has been the manner of construction for my first few attempts...(ie not as polished as here) my feeling after playing a year on my first is that there is some truth to having a very dense wood as a handle from a "feel" stand point not necessarily a back of an entire butt.....(again weight is weight the difference in placement is really what is felt and the feeling is more subtile w/denser woods)

Sorry for budding in Jim

You can factor that in.
With all maple core, you will have to add more weight to get to 19 oz. and up.
The more you add weight at the bottom, the more likely you are going to impede resonance. There is that "sweet spot " of added weight . You add more to it, you knock the resonance.
Denser wood handle does accentuate the maple front's resonance naturally.
 
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