Rule query

K

klaha81

World Class Shot Misser
Silver Member
I had this interesting scenario just a few days ago when we were playing a money game. I was down 2-0 in a race to 3 and my friend was left with a tough situation where he was snookered and had no shot. He proceeded to intentionally foul by using the cue to push another object ball without contacting the cueball and tying up the balls as a result. I called for an immediate loss of the rack but he was quite stubborn to insist that that he did was right and it only constitutes a foul. He argued that a loss of rack should only happen when a player uses his hands to shift the balls as he can plan deliberately what the balls position can be. I argued that it makes no difference and that skill or no skill, it is an unsportsmanlike conduct and should be penalized accordingly. :mad:

Oh and in the end, some of our friends at the side decided that it was just a ball in hand and me being the lousy player i am failed to solve the situation and proceeded to gift the game to him.

Now, taking aside the point about me being down 2-0. What would the correct decision be on such an act?:confused::rolleyes:
 
klaha81 said:
I had this interesting scenario just a few days ago when we were playing a money game. I was down 2-0 in a race to 3 and my friend was left with a tough situation where he was snookered and had no shot. He proceeded to intentionally foul by using the cue to push another object ball without contacting the cueball and tying up the balls as a result. I called for an immediate loss of the rack but he was quite stubborn to insist that that he did was right and it only constitutes a foul. He argued that a loss of rack should only happen when a player uses his hands to shift the balls as he can plan deliberately what the balls position can be. I argued that it makes no difference and that skill or no skill, it is an unsportsmanlike conduct and should be penalized accordingly. :mad:

Oh and in the end, some of our friends at the side decided that it was just a ball in hand and me being the lousy player i am failed to solve the situation and proceeded to gift the game to him.

Now, taking aside the point about me being down 2-0. What would the correct decision be on such an act?:confused::rolleyes:
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This was just discussed in another thread.

You are not permitted to intentionally move the balls except by a shot. Intentionally moving them by some other means is not part of the game. A shot requires you to hit the cue ball with a forward stroke of the cue and with the tip. If I were the ref, I'd give you the game for your opponent's unsportsmanlike conduct and ignorance of the rules.
 
Bob Jewett as always is correct. If you want to be nice since it is gambling with friends you could allow your friend to put the ball back where it was and let him try again with a legal shot since apparently he doesn't know the rule.
 
Don't we all carry smartphones these days? Best argument enders ever. Next time, head over to the forum right then and there and look up the rulings and show him :smile: There is a rules and strategies section that should be easier to search than the Main part to find what you are looking for. Of course he/they/she can still argue about it, I've run across people that would be shown a rule several times or a certain way to play a shot, an they would insist that what they thought was the way and that's that.

klaha81 said:
I had this interesting scenario just a few days ago when we were playing a money game. I was down 2-0 in a race to 3 and my friend was left with a tough situation where he was snookered and had no shot. He proceeded to intentionally foul by using the cue to push another object ball without contacting the cueball and tying up the balls as a result. I called for an immediate loss of the rack but he was quite stubborn to insist that that he did was right and it only constitutes a foul. He argued that a loss of rack should only happen when a player uses his hands to shift the balls as he can plan deliberately what the balls position can be. I argued that it makes no difference and that skill or no skill, it is an unsportsmanlike conduct and should be penalized accordingly. :mad:

Oh and in the end, some of our friends at the side decided that it was just a ball in hand and me being the lousy player i am failed to solve the situation and proceeded to gift the game to him.

Now, taking aside the point about me being down 2-0. What would the correct decision be on such an act?:confused::rolleyes:
Click to expand...
 
klaha81 said:
He proceeded to intentionally foul by using the cue to push another object ball without contacting the cueball and tying up the balls as a result.
Click to expand...

Depends on the rules, but I believe in just about all of them the balls are returned to their original location as can be best determined, except for any ball that made contact with the Cue ball which would remain where they land after that contact.

If the rules call for you touching any ball as a ball in hand foul then you take that after returning the other balls to their original location. If it is rules like APA he would have to strike the cue ball to foul or simply pick up the ball and give it to you before a ball in hand foul occurs.

Regardless it was poor sportsmanship and would call it a game loosing offense.
 
Reminds me of the time playing one pocket and the guy "tripped" and moved the entire rack toward his side of the table with the side of his cue. Didn't even want to accept a foul since it was an accident, some people have brass balls and no shame.
 
Fuji-whopper said:
Reminds me of the time playing one pocket and the guy "tripped" and moved the entire rack toward his side of the table with the side of his cue. Didn't even want to accept a foul since it was an accident, some people have brass balls and no shame.
Click to expand...

Grady Mathews, used to tell a story about Jersey Red doing something similar, but with a crutch.
Red was arguing about cue ball fouls only, during a game of One Pocket, when he took the rake, pushed half the balls toward his pocket, and said. "So that's not a foul, huh?" :smile:
 
Tramp Steamer said:
Grady Mathews, used to tell a story about Jersey Red doing something similar, but with a crutch.
Red was arguing about cue ball fouls only, during a game of One Pocket, when he took the rake, pushed half the balls toward his pocket, and said. "So that's not a foul, huh?" :smile:
Click to expand...

Now that's funny shit.
 
Think this covers it; BCA rules section 1-40 C


c.
Object balls: It is a deliberate foul if you intentionally stop or deflect any
object ball that is in motion, or intentionally move any stationary object
ball that is in play, by any method other than a legal shot, including by
intentionally contacting or moving any part of the table in any way.

Penalties First violation of (c): your opponent may have the object ball
restored (if it was stationary), pocketed or left in its position after the foul.

However, it is loss of game if it is the game-winning ball, if any
deflected object ball contacts any other ball, or if more than one ball is moved
 
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