Just going to vent some.....

[Albatross Cues]

I do build cues that have design changes ie: length, taper, weight/balance. All the "standardization", as you call it, makes each of us custom cue makers cues hit/feel differently. I dont have a cnc, I dont build "museum" or "art" cues, its not MY style, but hats off to those that can. I make cues for players to be played with, period. Im sorry if I'm not making it known to you that I build cues to customer specs not just "standardized" cookie cutter cues, according to your description.
Good Day

Aloha

I meant no offense with my post.

I respect the cues you make. You are in a small minority of makers out there who actually care about the player, and will spec a cue for said player. If I am reading your post correctly.

And every cue maker has to do what they can to make a profit. I understand this. Look in the for sale section some time and see how many "Custom Cues" are for sale. Many right at 58" 13mm, same old standard. "Custom" has become the custom of the standard cue. To whom is it actually "Custom" for?

But what are my options if I come to you for a build. Are you going to analyze my stroke, height, bridge length, wing span, taper preferance...Ect? And fit a cue to my build specs? The majority of the makers out there will not. They will take an order for a cue, maybe include some little nuances to make it look custom and sell them a cue that is not fit for them. And as cue makers I see it as our responsibility to give this kind of customer service to our customers.

Don't get me wrong, I see the market for art cues and quick selling small production runs. It makes our profits come easier. I would just like to see the top players get fitted for a cue and see how it comes out. Or the aspiring player to actually have a cue that fits their particular style of play.

Imagine if Earl came into your shop for a second. Wouldn't it be great to build him a cue, through a fitting, and then be able to build him his javelin cue, that was perfectly balanced, weighted and tapered to fit his style of play? Or any of these players that are continuing to play with the extention on their cues for that matter. It's an untapped market right now, and gives a whole different definition to "Custom" then what we have come to know.

Some are in it for the money and some truly care about the player and the game. Only you can decide what side of this fence you are standing.

Thank you for your reply.

Aloha

 

[Russell Cues]

Aloha

I meant no offense with my post.

I respect the cues you make. You are in a small minority of makers out there who actually care about the player, and will spec a cue for said player. If I am reading your post correctly.

And every cue maker has to do what they can to make a profit. I understand this. Look in the for sale section some time and see how many "Custom Cues" are for sale. Many right at 58" 13mm, same old standard. "Custom" has become the custom of the standard cue. To whom is it actually "Custom" for?

But what are my options if I come to you for a build. Are you going to analyze my stroke, height, bridge length, wing span, taper preferance...Ect? And fit a cue to my build specs? The majority of the makers out there will not. They will take an order for a cue, maybe include some little nuances to make it look custom and sell them a cue that is not fit for them. And as cue makers I see it as our responsibility to give this kind of customer service to our customers.

Don't get me wrong, I see the market for art cues and quick selling small production runs. It makes our profits come easier. I would just like to see the top players get fitted for a cue and see how it comes out. Or the aspiring player to actually have a cue that fits their particular style of play.

Imagine if Earl came into your shop for a second. Wouldn't it be great to build him a cue, through a fitting, and then be able to build him his javelin cue, that was perfectly balanced, weighted and tapered to fit his style of play? Or any of these players that are continuing to play with the extention on their cues for that matter. It's an untapped market right now, and gives a whole different definition to "Custom" then what we have come to know.

Some are in it for the money and some truly care about the player and the game. Only you can decide what side of this fence you are standing.

Thank you for your reply.

Aloha

Most of the shafts I have made over the last few years are not 13mm. I have been finishing at 12.9 or 12.8 depending on the player. Last year I made a couple of matching sets and the playing shafts were 12mm, per customer request. The matching break cues had a 12.8mm shaft and broke as expected. It does take more effort to make changes to the cue specs and have it feel like your cue but it can be done.

 

[pdcue]

I produce cues, Schon produces cues. Or are you saying "mass" produce. And as far as a facility, I guess we both have those. Got to make them some where.

Aloha

Edit: What would be your definition of " Mass" in cue building? More then one?

Which part of 'production facility' is too complicated for you grasp?

Dale

 

[Albatross Cues]

Which part of 'production facility' is too complicated for you grasp?

Dale

What part of I have a facility to produce cues do you not understand? Maybe you could be so kind as to explain the difference from your point of view? How many does it take? How much square footage should said facility be? What is your view of production? If I only make 20 cues per year and they are all the same spec, does this make me a production facility? If I make 1000 cues per year and everyone is different, how about now? If I have employees working for me, does this qualify me for a production facility in your mind?

Your opinion on this would be greatly appreciated!

Aloha

 

[pt109]

I've only had a few custom cues made for me....
...but every cue I've owned has been customized.


pt...would like to see some pics of Albatross cues

 

[maha]

custom made means made to the customers specs. that can and should be expenaded to also mean the cue is made by that make and not a put together collection of parts he just buys.

a real custome maker makes his own shafts, puts on his own tips. as well of course makes his own butts, or at least at a minimum buys a blank and turns it and adds what is needed to make the butt.

for example a conversion is not a custom cue.but can be a customized cue.

 

[Sherman Duke]

My cue maker had a tape measure and recorded my joint measurements and all.
He built the exact dimensions, weight, and balance requested.
Every piece was handcrafted in his shop.

 

[Albatross Cues]

I've only had a few custom cues made for me....
...but every cue I've owned has been customized.


pt...would like to see some pics of Albatross cues

Aloha

Check out my profile, there are a few pictures if you click on the albums. If you want some more let me know.

Aloha

 

[Albatross Cues]

My cue maker had a tape measure and recorded my joint measurements and all.
He built the exact dimensions, weight, and balance requested.
Every piece was handcrafted in his shop.

Aloha

This is what I am talking about. How did the cue feel when you got it and finally have gotten used to it? Where you happy with results of your build? Would you concider puchacing another from this same cue maker? And do you feel you had a "Custom" job, something that actually fits your stroke/ style of play?

Aloha

 

[KRJ]

A custom cue is a cue that was not started prior to the customer specifying each and every detail of the finished product.

If the cue started production prior to you ordering it, it is not custom.

So, if a cue maker, who makes the cue himself, ages the wood, cuts the wood, shapes into a cue, adds inlays, rings and a wrap, and puts his best shaft on it, it's NOt custom because nobody bought it yet?

Yes, it's a custom cue. And if someone does not like the way it plays, they don't buy it. Oh, wait, its only custom if I actually tell them I want leather and not linen wrap. I don't think so.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

according to your definition, even if a player had a cue maker build a cue to the player's specs and the player decides to sell, then he can't advertise his cue as a custom?

Wow. Pretty stiff. Why should anyone care how a cue is labeled? Cue maker, condition, and history and how ever the cue presents itself (looks, length, tip, pin and so forth)?

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1

 

[Thomas Wayne]

please let us know how we are supposed to think and speak. I am sure we'll all follow your lead.

Can you do something about "sneaky pete"?

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1

 

[Thomas Wayne]

yeah, ship has sailed on this one, just get used to how the word is used and learn to live with it. It's not only a pool thing, it happens in all sorts of things. When an item is made in small quantities by a small shop and the ability to do a customized version is available, then anything coming out of there will be called custom.

I'm into knives as well and custom knives are very commonly built without input fom the buyer...maker builds them and takes them to knife shows. They're still called custom knives. I bought one like that and i have another on order that i have spacified exactly how i want it. I will call both custom knives.

Pool isn't like golf, there aren't ways to take physical measurements and fit a cue to a person. It's just personal preference and what one wants, likes, and is used to playing with.

+1 +1 +1 +1 +1

 

[Albatross Cues]

So, if a cue maker, who makes the cue himself, ages the wood, cuts the wood, shapes into a cue, adds inlays, rings and a wrap, and puts his best shaft on it, it's NOt custom because nobody bought it yet?

Yes, it's a custom cue. And if someone does not like the way it plays, they don't buy it. Oh, wait, its only custom if I actually tell them I want leather and not linen wrap. I don't think so.

Aloha

RJ, Its not about work involved, it's about the "Custom fitting" to a specific player and not following the custom of just another "Custom" cue.

But maybe you could share some insite as to what would be a truly custom cue in your opinion.

And to answer your question, I believe if nobody has purchased it yet and it was not built custom to a player specific specs, then I would concider this a " one of one" and not "Custom".

Aloha

 

[JoeyInCali]

Jose Parica is probably 5'4".
Johnny Archer is over 6' tall.
Both shoot with a 58" cue .

 

[Albatross Cues]

Aloha Thomas,

Glad you decided to join in on this.

What are your opinions on custom fitting a cue for specific players?

Is this something you do when you are making a cue for a specific player?

I am not talking about your Artistic cues here, I'm wondering about a truly fitting cue for the player that is purchasing it.

Or were you just reiterating that you are #1 (+1)

Btw, love your design work!

Aloha

 

[Albatross Cues]

Jose Parica is probably 5'4".
Johnny Archer is over 6' tall.
Both shoot with a 58" cue .

Aloha

Good to know, but does the cue fit the person or the person fit the cue? Were they properly fitted for for that specific lenght because of some aspect of their particular playing style?

Do they even shoot with a "Custom Cue"?

Aloha

 

[qbilder]

I chose 58" because it's a standard size and appeals to the vast majority of players. I have spent over a decade learning how to make cues at that length, and still have not mastered it. My goal isn't top produce a cue & expect the buyer to get used to it, but rather the player hit the very first ball & experience that WOW factor, knowing they just stumbled into something special. I nail it sometimes, fail sometimes, and do "ok" most of the time. That's with combining all of my experience & knowledge into the effort, and I still don't have it mastered. I may never get there. And that's only 58 inchers where I have the dictation of which woods & where. Heaven forbid I never took the time & made the effort to amass the knowledge that I have, and instead always allowed the buyer to dictate every spec.

If I were to allow the buyer to dictate specs, then all of my knowledge is moot. I must rely on his/her ability to design a cue that will perform well. Then when completed, I have to hope they like it, because it's my name attached to it. If they don't like it, who's to blame? Me or them? How many people will they tell about how I screwed up their cue, that it doesn't hit all that great, or that it's completely unwieldy? Never a mention that it's their design & their specs, only that I don't make a good player. Furthermore, how many of those people will be in a rush to order their own? Zero, none, zip, zilch.

While it's a novel dream to fit a cue to every player, the reality dictates otherwise. Reality says it'll be a nightmare & recipe for failure. Of all the most respected & successful makers, which ones are/were open to the buyer having dictatorship over every spec? Which one custom fit each cue to its prospective player? On the other side of the coin, how many builders who follow that model exist today? And how many have tried that route and completely failed in cue making? Point being, it's a pipe dream. You may be the one who changes it, who figures it out & opens a new door in cue making to advance the craft. But the odds are greatly stacked against you. Chances are you'll flop in no time, ruin your name to the cue world, and never again be taken seriously. That's precisely why the majority of cues are 58".

Having a uniform size that's standard to the industry allows for a collective knowledge base where anybody can learn the nuts & bolts of it, then with their own ingenuity & creativity, contribute their own advancements. Turning that standard into a variable alienates you from the collective knowledge base, making that knowledge useless to you, making your contributions useless to everybody else. The dynamics are new with every change in length. Weight, balance, taper shape, diameter dimensions, aesthetics, everything is completely new with every size you try. How in a lifetime could you ever master the craft when most of us fail to master it only at 58"? Again, it's a cool dream, but once you delve into it you realize it's not sensible. Or at least that's my take.

 

[JoeyInCali]

Aloha

Good to know, but does the cue fit the person or the person fit the cue? Were they properly fitted for for that specific lenght because of some aspect of their particular playing style?

Do they even shoot with a "Custom Cue"?

Aloha

They've shot with custom cues and production cues .
None have been weird lengths or diameters.

 

[9Ballr]

So how can the standard 58" cue really be concidered a "Custom"?

I bet a big reason for this is because people who order cues want them to be easy to sell later should they decide to sell them.

A 58 in cue is going to go much faster than a 68 inch cue.
Even though one will be bought by someone who is 5' 4" and the other by someone 6' 2".