AzB's Dumbing Down

And time out for Ed McMahon trying to horn in on Johnny's show while we are on commercial break. Can't stand sitting on the couch away from the microphone can you, Ed?

LOL, SJD is so damn jealous for anyone to have the spotlight. or get any kind of credit, it is just blatantly obvious. Talk about track record, it started with Freddy B., it was so bad he was able to get a very lenient guy like Steve B. to boot him from OP.org even though he's in the HOF. I've never seen Steve B. boot anyone else unless it was some robotic spammer. Anyway he was told ad infinitum to reign it in...by Steve and many of his friends.

He has now been given a second (or is third?) chance to post at OP.org.

By most accts he was a top player (you have to be over 60 to have seen him anywhere near his prime). But those who did say he played a little under Ronnie. He took a twenty year hiatus, and still managed to get in the HOF, he should be thankful for that.

Guys like Keith 'Squirrel' Thompson, and even Harold Worst (not 100% he's not in, but he's not on the list) are not in probably because of their shortened careers, but SJD takes a twenty year hiatus and still gets in. Guys like Danny Jones who played all of his life and won a JC allround have been passed over, but SJD made it. How much attention and recognition do you need Dick?

How about lightening up on the criticizing? I know a smartass response is coming as there is zero chance you think anything I have pointed out could be correct. Carry on.
 
PJ may never get that CJ is that much smarter than him tho so I do see your point.
If somehow they ever agree to take official tests for a highest IQ contest against each other, come see me and we will side bet it. I will take PJ. And I will spot you ten points that you haven't even asked for. I can do that with zero concern because that is how much of a blowout it is going to be.

You are letting your dislike of PJ bias your judgment (or you lack the intellect to be able to accurately judge, or both). You may not like his approach, you may not like his personality, he may rub every pore of your body the wrong way, but to say that PJ isn't an extremely smart guy just shows you have the worst possible judgment abilities.

People nan-saying systems, and techniques and belittleing posters without ever attempting what is being discussed tends to put a big wrench in that for the rest of us.
Ok, then please go jump from the Empire State building. My technique for flying and the secret where everyone else has been doing it wrong in the past is that you don't flap your arms at all. Just hold your arms straight out at your sides, hands extended straight out with your palms down, and as fast as you can move your hands back and forth like the "pageant wave". It will create lift and you will be able to fly, guaranteed. And don't knock it before you have tried it because as you have pointed out, you cannot say that it will not work until you have tried it.

Meanwhile, back in the real world... You don't always have to do something to know, without any doubt whatsoever, how it works or doesn't work. The truth of the matter is that sometimes people with certain intellect can see without doubt when something is 0% possible while others with lower intellect just can't see it. Just because you can't tell that my flying technique isn't going to work doesn't mean that everybody else is just at dumb. Some people have a much higher capacity for understanding things than you do.

Just off the top of my head I can think of 6-7 topics that are discussed often here where the science is not settled but some guys want to pretend it is.... Several of these are the areas that trip my trigger and will continue to do so...
Is it that the science is not settled, or could it be that you simply lack the intellect to understand how the science is in fact completely settled? Things that [should] make you go hmmmm...

When you continue to throw incomplete tests out LIKE they are fact it really doesn't matter what Dave or Bob said when they did them about theorizing...
Can you provide any example where Dave or Bob have ever stated something as fact and stuck with that when it is was actually not a fact? Any example at all? They have both made thousands of statements on many things over many years and I bet you would be hard pressed to find one example. If you do find something that you believe fits that case, 10 to 1 odds says it is just your inability to understand how it is indeed absolutely a fact, just one that you don't happen to understand and therefore disagree with.

And just believing something because that is what all the evidence supports and acting accordingly does not count as stating it as fact unless they are specifically trying to call it fact. That is just being smart and prudent. On the other hand, believing something when the evidence does not support it is the very definition of idiocy.

As far as being able to tell the brilliant minds from the idiots... From posts on a forum??
Obviously there is no way to tell if the conversation is about the weather. But if scientific things are being discussed, if you can't tell the brilliant posters from the idiots, then suffice it to say that you aren't anywhere close to being one of the brilliant posters. It is abundantly obvious who really intelligent people are to the other really intelligent people.
 
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LOL, SJD is so damn jealous for anyone to have the spotlight. or get any kind of credit, it is just blatantly obvious. Talk about track record, it started with Freddy B., it was so bad he was able to get a very lenient guy like Steve B. to boot him from OP.org even though he's in the HOF. I've never seen Steve B. boot anyone else unless it was some robotic spammer. Anyway he was told ad infinitum to reign it in...by Steve and many of his friends.

By most accts he was a top player (you have to be over 60 to have seen him anywhere near his prime). But those who did say he played a little under Ronnie. He took a twenty year hiatus, and still managed to get in the HOF, he should be thankful for that.

Guys like Keith 'Squirrel' Thompson, and even Harold Worst (not 100% he's not in, but he's not on the list) are not in probably because of their shortened careers, but SJD takes a twenty year hiatus and still gets in. Guys like Danny Jones who played all of his life and won a JC allround have been passed over, but SJD made it. How much attention and recognition do you need Dick?

How about lightening up on the criticizing? I know a smartass response is coming as there is zero chance you think anything I have pointed out could be correct.Carry on.

No Bunter, you do bring up a few good points..But, one thing you (and a few others) choose to ignore is, I always felt there were many other's more deserving of any award.....And I have stated this many times, on both forums ! Even when the voting was getting close, I never once, voted for myself !..I felt very fortunate, honored (and to be honest, a little guilty) at being elected !

The other thing is you, or and Mr. Eye, were never regulars on 1P.org, so you don't have a clue how things developed between Freddy, Booth, and myself !..Yet you've elected yourselves 'experts' on the subject..You are right, Steve is a very fair individual, but in this case, most of the regulars thought I was treated unfairly !..(and said so)..There is a huge paper trail, if you'd care to research it ! :confused:

And as far as 'jealousy' is concerned, toward CJ..that is laughable !..The only reason I get on his case is, that he continues to make the Beard, look like 'Mother Theresa'!..Freddy was a very intelligent rival, and CJ is....well, CJ !..He is the 'all time' HOF leader, in post count !..You can defend him all you want, but I will always get a kick out of 'criticizing' him, when he acts like a buffoon ! (which is most of the time ;))
 
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If somehow they ever agree to take official tests for a highest IQ contest against each other, come see me and we will side bet it. I will take PJ. And I will spot you ten points that you haven't even asked for. I can do that with zero concern because that is how much of a blowout it is going to be.

Rather bet on me... but lets make it fair you and PJ vs me and CJ...You obviously have a pretext here and yes most of AZ has a reading comprehension high enough to understand it even if you guys think they are dumb...


You are letting your dislike of PJ bias your judgment (or you lack the intellect to be able to accurately judge, or both). You may not like his approach, you may not like his personality, he may rub every pore of your body the wrong way, but to say that PJ isn't an extremely smart guy just shows you have the worst possible judgment abilities.

Come on! Keyboard commando.... Your dislike of CJ is likely stronger than my dislike of PJ... I don't dislike PJ at face value just what he has become in the last 2 visits to AZ.... but he does think you can't hit up thru the cueball... you call yourself poolplaya but if thats true even you are smarter than that.....


Ok, then please go jump from the Empire State building. My technique for flying and the secret where everyone else has been doing it wrong in the past is that you don't flap your arms at all. Just hold your arms straight out at your sides, hands extended straight out with your palms down, and as fast as you can move your hands back and forth like the "pageant wave". It will create lift and you will be able to fly, guaranteed. And don't knock it before you have tried it because as you have pointed out, you cannot say that it will not work until you have tried it.

Sorry I skipped that one... had to clean the windows from someone licking them... Did your parents not buy you a helmet?


Meanwhile, back in the real world... You don't always have to do something to know, without any doubt whatsoever, how it works or doesn't work. The truth of the matter is that sometimes people with certain intellect can see without doubt when something is 0% possible while others with lower intellect just can't see it. Just because you can't tell that my flying technique isn't going to work doesn't mean that everybody else is just at dumb. Some people have a much higher capacity for understanding things than you do.


Yeahhhhhh but you don't strike me as one of those people and pro players tend to perform these tasks that you and PJ don't HAVE to do at super high levels... I think you tried to build a straw man but he can't hold a cue either here

Is it that the science is not settled, or could it be that you simply lack the intellect to understand how the science is in fact completely settled? Things that [should] make you go hmmmm...

Nah actually on the ones where I tell you it's not settled you might as well be going mmmmm... mmmmmm... and starring in slingblade... It's not even close.... The variables are wrong as well as some of the concepts... The russians have refuted some of it and more will be refuted but you can keep guzzling it in.....


Can you provide any example where Dave or Bob have ever stated something as fact and stuck with that when it is was actually not a fact? Any example at all? They have both made thousands of statements on many things over many years and I bet you would be hard pressed to find one example. If you do find something that you believe fits that case, 10 to 1 odds says it is just your inability to understand how it is indeed absolutely a fact, just one that you don't happen to understand and therefore disagree with.

This is where your reading comprehension failed... I never said either of them would do that... Now someone else you know???. Once. Twice. Thrice?. How about until the feathers are sticking up on his arse?? Dave always posts once for review like I said. Explains things for anyone who asks and then sees where it goes.... Deee De Deeeer reading is fundamental

Obviously there is no way to tell if the conversation is about the weather. But if scientific things are being discussed, if you can't tell the brilliant posters from the idiots, then suffice it to say that you aren't anywhere close to being one of the brilliant posters. It is abundantly obvious who really intelligent people are to the other really intelligent people.
hmmm wow... OK I will give it a shot... YOU are not one of the brilliant posters

Brilliant people generally are smart enough not to call people dumb... It's kind of like saying let them eat cake... If you and PJ think this way I think you should mosey on.... At least Patrick had the balls to post his name... maybe you could as you head for the exit.......


Chris Renfro
 
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The other thing is you, or and Mr. Eye, were never regulars on 1P.org, so you don't have a clue how things developed between Freddy, Booth, and myself !..Yet you've elected yourselves 'experts' on the subject..Most of the regulars thought I was treated very unfairly !..(and said so)..There is a huge paper trail, if you'd care to research it ! :confused:

Please don't consider YOURSELF an EXPERT of where I've been on the internet, to include 1P.org.

I have been on the internet, in some sort of capacity, almost since its conception. I think you were working for UPS while I was working for NSA. Your motto was "What can Brown do for you?"...our motto was "In God we trust. All others we monitor."

Just because people don't join and post on every site, doesn't mean they don't read things.
 
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when it's "hill/hill" I may not shoot the same shot as I would if I'm up 10/6

This is a great example of what poolplaya9 was saying. Sometimes people simply don't have the intellect to understand what they are reading, and dismiss it one way or another instead of trying to learn something.

What CJ says here is pretty clear, not double talk. He's saying that the process of calculating odds in pool changes and expands the higher your skill level. A pro will shoot certain shots like they are hangers that a novice might shy away from. The novice may simply not be aware of the *existence* of a level of play that makes the choices the pros make seem like good ideas to him.

Case in point indeed.

KMRUNOUT

You are exactly right, I'm not writing over anyone's head, and certainly not using any "double talk".....you don't seem to have any trouble deciphering my posts. LoL

The odds and percentages do change according to the players confidence and shot-making abilities.

They also rely on the player's knowledge of "2 way shots," that have a offensive and defensive element.
Also, being comfortable spinning the cue ball brings in another set of variables that you can use to your advantage in the heat of battle.

Pressure also changes the odds, when it's "hill/hill" I may not shoot the same shot as I would if I'm up 10/6 going to 11.
Pool has a fantastic assortment of interesting factors that are not being discussed at times by the commentators.....this isn't their fault, they sometimes don't have time.
Of course the rules also dilute some of these shots and situations, like the "2 way shots," and the "spot shots".
 
I still couldn't pick him out of a line up

CJ probably wouldn't even know who you are if you hadn't followed him around dogging him every chance you get.

You are right that it is much easier to learn something being with the instructor at a pool table. However raising these subjects make people aware of them and they may seek out 'live' help and actually improve.

What's your problem with that. QUIT being so damn negative all of the time.

I still couldn't pick him out of a line up,
unless the others were tall, young and positive.
;)

usual-suspects-line-up.jpg
 
You are exactly right, I'm not writing over anyone's head, and certainly not using any "double talk"...you don't seem to have any trouble deciphering my posts. LoL

The odds and percentages do change according to the players confidence and shot-making abilities...Pressure also changes the odds, when it's "hill/hill" I may not shoot the same shot as I would if I'm up 10/6 going to 11.
Pool has a fantastic assortment of interesting factors.


They also rely on the player's knowledge of "2 way shots," that have a offensive and defensive element.Also, being comfortable spinning the cue ball brings in another set of variables that you can use to your advantage in the heat of battle.

CJ..None of what you say, is in any way an 'earth shattering' revelation, that only you, are privvy to ! ..You are actually talking down to most of the forum ! Something you never seem to notice. :rolleyes:
 
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CJ..None of what you say, is in any way an 'earth shattering' revelation, that only you, are privvy to ! ..You are actually talking down to most of the forum !...Something you never seem to notice. :rolleyes:

Dick...... head..... =P you're are in PJ's thread where he has accused everyone of being dumb for not agreeing with him... I can A) kick you in the sack or B) you can hop out to a new thread and give CJ hell there.... This looks like a fun fight but this thread needs to go the way of the dodo.....

CJ vs Dick comng up.... I'll insult you both to set the tone
 
I still couldn't pick him out of a line up,
unless the others were tall, young and positive.
;)

usual-suspects-line-up.jpg



Just to keep you up to date..here is a recent photo of me...6' 4"- 275 lbs. Not bad for my age, huh ? :p

dennis-wolf-022.jpg
 
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Rather bet on me... but lets make it fair you and PJ vs me and CJ...
You would hate it and your wallet would hate it even more.

You obviously have a pretext here
I do? What would make you think that? Remember, idiocy is the belief in things in the absence of evidence or that are not supported by the evidence. What evidence are you basing this on?

and yes most of AZ has a reading comprehension high enough to understand it even if you guys think they are dumb...
Or most are just not smart enough to recognize certain nonsense as just that. Hard to say since so many keep quiet on these things. I'm guessing lots of people recognize lots of nonsense and just keep it to themselves. I will give you this though. Plenty of people do buy into or are at least open to nonsense. See it all the time on here. It's a sad state of affairs.

Come on! Keyboard commando.... Your dislike of CJ is likely stronger than my dislike of PJ...
Again, based on what evidence? It would be idiocy to believe something without evidence or in the face of evidence that says otherwise. Where is your evidence for that belief?

Yeahhhhhh but you don't strike me as one of those people and pro players tend to perform these tasks that you and PJ don't HAVE to do at super high levels... I think you tried to build a straw man but he can't hold a cue either here
A straw man? What part of "for many things you can know positively with zero doubt whatsoever if it is possible or not without actually doing it" do you disagree with? What part of "some people are smarter than others or understand certain things better than others" do you disagree with? Those were my contentions, and they were factual and at the heart of the matter being discussed. Nothing the least bit straw man about it.

Nah actually on the ones where I tell you it's not settled you might as well be going mmmmm... mmmmmm... and starring in slingblade... It's not even close....
I'd be curious to hear any that you disagree with Dave or Bob or Mike or PJ on, and some links to the threads if you have them handy. You did mention the hitting up on the cue ball thing with PJ, and I missed that thread. I do know that it is nearly impossible to hit up on the cue ball, and pretty much impossible for that to happen in the course of a game. Unless you mean something other than what I think you mean. Would love to see the thread.
 
You would hate it and your wallet would hate it even more.


I do? What would make you think that? Remember, idiocy is the belief in things in the absence of evidence or that are not supported by the evidence. What evidence are you basing this on?


Or most are just not smart enough to recognize certain nonsense as just that. Hard to say since so many keep quiet on these things. I'm guessing lots of people recognize lots of nonsense and just keep it to themselves. I will give you this though. Plenty of people do buy into or are at least open to nonsense. See it all the time on here. It's a sad state of affairs.


Again, based on what evidence? It would be idiocy to believe something without evidence or in the face of evidence that says otherwise. Where is your evidence for that belief?


A straw man? What part of "for many things you can know positively with zero doubt whatsoever if it is possible or not without actually doing it" do you disagree with? What part of "some people are smarter than others or understand certain things better than others" do you disagree with? Those were my contentions, and they were factual and at the heart of the matter being discussed. Nothing the least bit straw man about it.


I'd be curious to hear any that you disagree with Dave or Bob or Mike or PJ on, and some links to the threads if you have them handy. You did mention the hitting up on the cue ball thing with PJ, and I missed that thread. I do know that it is nearly impossible to hit up on the cue ball, and pretty much impossible for that to happen in the course of a game. Unless you mean something other than what I think you mean. Would love to see the thread.

Where is your name big boy? I am going to sleep... poolplaya? pooltalkingoutofyourassa.. turn your badge in... Smorg would be embarassed..... It's you an PJ saying we are all dumb... I am just trying to splain that joo got noooo idea.....
 
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Meh, I'm sorry if I'm "dumbing down the place". But really, like many of you say the science of most things pool are settled long ago. Newtonian physics, the mathmatics of the massè etc etc. The subject holds little interest to anyone who's had High school or College physics. People are here to learn how to play better pool, not to refresh their old or recent physics knowledge.

Mostly when you play pool it's very difficult to even know what is happening, you may feel something, yet be doing something completely different. Knowing that the ball leaves the tip after 1-4 ms won't really help my pool game at all, and in fact may hurt my game as I may pay less attention to my follow through etc..Even Dr. Dave acknowlegdes that following through has some benefits. When we discuss things it is usually from the players point of view, not the ball. And as you all know the interpretations we humans give to our sensory perceptions gives rise to all sorts of distortions and errors. You can choose either to try to use that to your advantage or not.

Of course it is cringeworthy when someone says that cueing to the inside of the ball makes the margin of error greater, or other nonsense like that. You don't need a physics degree, or any degree for that matter to see that this is wrong. It is the classic confusion of accuracy and precision.

Other claims on this site are in the category "not even wrong" as they are not formulated clearly enough to yield a testable hypothesis. "Leads you to right angles" or "connected to a 2:1 ratio" etc. etc.
 
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Meh, I'm sorry if I'm "dumbing down the place". But really, like many of you say the science of most things pool are settled long ago. Newtonian physics, the mathmatics of the massè etc etc. The subject holds little interest to anyone who's had High school or College physics. People are here to learn how to play better pool, not to refresh their old or recent physics knowledge.

Mostly when you play pool it's very difficult to even know what is happening, you may feel something, yet be doing something completely different. Knowing that the ball leaves the tip after 1-4 ms won't really help my pool game at all, and in fact may hurt my game as I may pay less attention to my follow through etc..Even Dr. Dave acknowlegdes that following through has some benefits. When we discuss things it is usually from the players point of view, not the ball. And as you all know the interpretations we humans give to our sensory perceptions gives rise to all sorts of distortions and errors. You can choose either to try to use that to your advantage or not.

Of course it is cringeworthy when someone says that cueing to the inside of the ball makes the margin of error greater, or other nonsense like that. You don't need a physics degree, or any degree for that matter to see that this is wrong. It is the classic confusion of accuracy and precision.

Other claims on this site are in the category "not even wrong" as they are not formulated clearly enough to yield a testable hypothesis. "Leads you to right angles" or "connected to a 2:1 ratio" etc. etc.

Inside vs center when you factor SIT and CIT makes good sense.. Those are variables... They effect percentages.... They effect permissible error... try it or don't........... I would prefer you didn't... I play the game when I am not in inventor mode
 
Where is your name big boy? I am going to sleep... poolplaya? pooltalkingoutofyourassa.. turn your badge in... Smorg would be embarassed..... It's you an PJ saying we are all dumb... I am just trying to splain that joo got noooo idea.....

Typical. When someone wants to start discussing facts and evidence you run for the hills. You "nonsense believers" always resort to name calling and refusing to further discuss something as soon as you are pressed to put up evidence and facts. Of course that's all you can do when you lack evidence and facts. See ya.
 
What I am saying is that while this knowledge is very valuable it is not necessarily pertinent to EVERY discussion, and even if it is, maybe it doesn't have to be explicitly stated every time...

I agree. The details of all the physics behind everything is not always necessary to know (although it seldom if ever hurts, and often helps). I don't know of anyone that claims you need to know every last scientific detail about everything in pool but the majority of those types of discussions seem to happen as a result of false claims that were being made. When someone makes a claim that is patently wrong and pure hogwash you can just about bet that somebody is going to call them on it (as they should) and point out how and why it is nonsense, which generally involves having to explain the physics involved (which unfortunately goes over the heads of many people).
 
The bottom line is that when a scientist who could spot you 20 IQ points in a contest and still beat you by a bunch of points tells you something is without doubt a certain way, and there are no other equally credible scientists and intellectuals arguing otherwise, you should just shut up and accept what they are telling you. Part of the problem though, and this is a real catch 22, is that people don't know how dumb they really are. Think of all the really dumb people you have known in life. How many of them realized how dumb they were? Not many. You don't know what you don't know, until you are so brilliant that you always know. A good rule of thumb might be that if you don't think you could be a be a physicist if you wanted to, and without much effort or struggle, then you probably have no business arguing science things on an internet forum (and if you don't know if you could be a physicist because you have never taken physics then just chalk yourself up as one who couldn't be one because if you had the intellect you would have at least taken it in high school).


The science is settled on most things discussed on this forum, many just don't have the intellect to see it. And for those things where it isn't 100% certain you will ALWAYS see Bob Jewett or Dr Dave or Mike Page or Pat Johnson or the others with the exceptional intellect and understanding of science say something along the lines of "well IMO it works like this" or "well all of the evidence supports this" or "I theorize that this is what is happening". In other words if there is any uncertainly, they don't state it as fact. If they state it as fact, then take it to the bank, it's fact.

I ain't got a dog in this fight. I read and try to learn from lots of folks. Have been for 30+ years. I met CJ a few times a long time ago though I doubt he'd remember me. I was just a kid and Wade Crane introduced us. But as someone with 2 masters and a PhD (it don't count though 'cause it ain't in science and I use bad grammar) this quote bothers the hell out of me. I'm really concerned that I've just seen science turn into religion. If the the cardinals and the pope have spoken we peons just need to shut up and listen. It's ex-cathedra ya know?
 
...I also have great respect for CJ WIleys pool accomplishments. And yes, even a humble Euro pool fan like myself, knew of him before coming to this site... I do believe he has some noble motives (although lately I have begun to wonder a bit), along with his obvious economic ones. I have NO respect for his carpet bombing the forum with copied and pasted old articles and stories up to 9 (!) times...

Now here is a gentleman, from far away, who is cogniscent of what has been very obvious to most
of us all along !.:clapping:...SP 99, Bunter and Mr. Eye, will surely resent your astute observations ! ;)
 
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Whether or not CJ's material is hogwash is irrelevant to the fact that PJ is absolutely correct when he uses the term, "marketing infection.

CJ obviously has plenty to share, and it obviously helps some people. My vote is that he gets his own subforum in Ask the Instructor. Anything remotely related to what he sells should be moved there immediately.

Yeah. Kinda like getting a litter box instead of letting your cat shit all over the house.
 
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