Can you be too smart to play good pool?

[Zphix]

Yes, likely that too. But on the other hand, the lower level league players, low Bs, Cs, tend to be less educated / less smarter (yes the two may not be the same, but you can tell when someone is dense or not LOL). The less educated may play as much as the more educated but they don't get to that same level of knowledge and/or skill and it will likely take them longer to reach that same level.

I think there is a innate curiosity in those that go after more education and are smarter, which causes them to grab all the information and technique that they can from anything, not just pool. And if those players get into pool, they can get to a decent level, only stopped by their ability to line up the shot properly due to eyes, whatever, and how long they can spend playing.

Bingo. Love this answer.

The perfect example would be my sister and myself. I'm educated, am hungry to learn (have a hunger for everything I enjoy), while my sister is more dense/less intelligent. I've been playing for a year and a half and have jumped alot skill wise. My sister has remained an APA 2 for a year.

Very very basic changes let you jump from an APA 2 base level and she just doesn't grasp these things.

I think high intelligence may halt your progress if you let it. Highly educated people tend to have stereotypes/qualities that would hinder them. It certainly held me back for a while until Scott set me straight.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Can someone tell patrick what this thread is all about?

Ta.

You haven't figured out yet that no thread is ever all about one thing?

pj <- don't speak "ta"
chgo

 

[spktur]

I think so. I also think that it pays to be dumb,or at least act like it.

I even came up with a saying for it,that I tell some people when I'm trying to help them.

" your too smart to learn " and the other one..." your too smart to ever play good pool"

I have never in my life seen or heard that you even have to know how to read or write to play high level pool.

I've seen it my whole life. People that can't read or people that can't walk and chew gum at the same time can play world class pool. ( yeah I know,they just practiced more than you did,well duh!! is what I say to that)

I have come to the conclusion that being or acting too smart will KEEP YOU from ever getting good at this simple game of knocking balls into a hole with a wooden stick.

This game is not complicated unless you want to make it complicated.
It's so simple.....a caveman could do it. John B.

PS: I've just been reading so much hogwash on here that I just can't help myself from trying to save some pool players from alot of the Bull shit that will keep them from ever getting good at this ever so simple game.

John, obviously, you don't have a clue about playing pool. Everyone knows you must have a system for aiming and banking or you will never make a ball. Just knocking balls in a hole with a wooden stick isn't what this game is about. There are many more deep seated intricacies involved. But seriously, I know this is your fishing season but please try posting more often you are one of the few who actually have a clue what pool is all about and how simple it really is.

 

[LAlouie]

I think so. I also think that it pays to be dumb,or at least act like it.

I even came up with a saying for it,that I tell some people when I'm trying to help them.

" your too smart to learn " and the other one..." your too smart to ever play good pool"

.

They are saying that because the hard core players are too dumb to do anything else. In my day, and as I have seen in general, the "good" hard core players start out as teenagers and quit school to do it. There is an element of sloth mixed into the recipe. It becomes a chicken egg thing.

 

[Johnnyt]

I know a lot of guys that are good with a rifle. Most of them never read or were taught how to aim and hit the target. When first starting to shoot they fired a round and if it was to the righr and high, they just aimed low and a hair to the left with next round. They kept doing this until they were good shots, that didn't take that long.

I can remember doing this same thing when I started to shoot pool. I would say it only took me a few weeks to pocket balls on the Brunswick 5 plus inch pockets. Then I started working on my speed and position, which I'm still trying to perfet after 65 years.

It wasn't until I had my stroke and lost all muscel memery and came on here to get help, that the pool problems (aiming. pocketing) began. While I enjoyed the back and forth on here because I was more or less trapped in the house with my own pool table, as far a learning to shoot again, reading AZB set me back 2 years at least, for sure. Johnnyt

 

[FranCrimi]

It's all about self-image. How you perceive yourself will determine if you can play to your potential or not.

There are a lot more insecure people in this world than secure people. Figure out what makes people feel insecure and you have your answer why they aren't playing to their potential. You may not even realize that you're an insecure person.

Is there a correlation between information and insecurity? Do insecure people seek out more information hoping to find answers, only making their situation worse?

Ask yourself: Are you insecure? Are you an information junkie?

Is ignorance bliss?

 

[3RAILKICK]

Bingo. Love this answer.

The perfect example would be my sister and myself. I'm educated, am hungry to learn (have a hunger for everything I enjoy), while my sister is more dense/less intelligent. I've been playing for a year and a half and have jumped alot skill wise. My sister has remained an APA 2 for a year.

Very very basic changes let you jump from an APA 2 base level and she just doesn't grasp these things.

I think high intelligence may halt your progress if you let it. Highly educated people tend to have stereotypes/qualities that would hinder them. It certainly held me back for a while until Scott set me straight.

I'm telling your sister what you said....

 

[BRussell]

This is a great reply. I especially agree with your last sentence. I don't believe there was anything in my post you quoted that would indicate I had an issue with *any* degree of discussion. And you did say this wasn't directed at me lol. But yeah great points, well stated, good dialog. That is interesting about the grammar rules. You may be on to something there.

I think of myself as having above average aptitude for a wide variety of things, but I never really thought I had a very *high* level of aptitude for anything. All the little sub-skills (spatial relations, hand eye coordination, logic and problem solving, weighing odds, etc.) I'm *reasonably* good at, but wouldn't say I excel in any.

However I have slowly become a solid A player in my area (and actually made a pretty big jump in the last couple of years...I'm 41 years old now). The one area where I think I am more than a little above average is intelligence. (At least that is what all those standardized tests, IQ tests, special programs in school they put me into, GPA, my invitation to Mensa, etc. would suggest). I believe that I would be a MUCH worse player if I was not able to overcome many weaknesses through THINKING. Assessing a situation, forming an honest non-biased view of what just happened, categorizing knowledge for quick and efficient retrieval, learning HOW TO LEARN, what areas to focus on, etc....I think all of this were a major part of why I was able to get as far as I have, because I really don't think my "natural ability" supports the level of play I can achieve. However, for anyone who has watched me play pool, I WORK HARD! I really have to struggle and try so damn hard to play well. It does not come easy to me at all. If I win a tournament, my brain is a puddle of soup by the end. It is an enormous stress, although as such it sure does feel good to be the winner.

I will add something else. More recently my game seems to be taking another up-turn. I think this is related to speeding up my pace of play slightly. The majority of this increase in speed has come by cutting down the time I waste on DOUBT. I am just not thinking so much about "what if I miss". I actually have watched Jayson Shaw many times, and that has seeped into my brain. I try to emulate that effortless, fearless shot making. It has really helped quite a bit. I'm probably a bit more fun to play with as well, because I don't dwell on shots as long as I used to. Still, trying to "not think" was a conscious decision. It was a plan I undertook based on analysis of both my physical game and also of my mental processes. I tried to understand what thoughts and feelings correlated with screw ups. I really don't think I could have made these advances if I didn't think about my situation with a careful, critical mind.

Of course this is just *my* experience. On the other hand, I find that the experience of *believing* that I will make the shot is as important or more so than any physical technique. It sure is hard to think logically about "belief", particularly in so much as there are many times in which the evidence as I see it suggests that I will miss, but somehow the belief that I won't trumps that and I make the shot. Idk...maybe that "evidence" is just a subtle and sly manifestation of fear and uncertainty.

Anyway, there's my story. BRussel, thanks for the excellent reply!

KMRUNOUT

That's a good point about speeding up play. If it is true that thinking too much causes problems, speeding up should prevent that.

My problem with playing fast is that when you miss, you feel like an idiot and think "I should have taken an extra couple of seconds." But I guess that's the wrong way to look at it - we're probably just as likely to miss after taking extra time, but it doesn't stand out as much.

But yeah, the idea that it's good to be stupid is pretty ridiculous. I was just trying to find a kernel of truth in it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... the idea that it's good to be stupid is pretty ridiculous.

Consider the sources.

pj
chgo

 

[Straightpool_99]

Being intelligent is always an advantage. It means you are able to remember your mistakes, learn from them and apply and adapt the lessons you learned to novel situations. The only occupation I can think of where intelligence will sometimes be a disadvantage is the military. Carrying out nonsensical and redundant orders from officers who can barely crack the 3 digit mark on the iq scale (or sometimes don't) frequently drives intelligent people nuts, which is why so many of them leave, once they've extracted the maximum benefit the service has to offer. The rigid command structures frequently give you little to work with as far as improvising and improving on the stupid plans of superiors far removed from the situation, whilst in most menial jobs you have at least some freedom to improve your working conditions. If, say, a janitor invented a machine which would increase his efficiency, most companies would at least let him use it (even if they might steal his idea), while in the military he would have it taken away from him and be forced to do the job by hand.

Back to pool.
Thinking about stuff you are not supposed to be thinking about while playing, on the other hand, is hugely detrimental to your game. Lots of people on here like to discuss technical aspects of shooting pool, that while interesting, probably won't help you when down on the shot. If they are intelligent, they know that. The reason why pool players that are highly skilled usually aren't the brightest or most well educated is simple: You can earn a lot more money and prestige in nearly any other occupation, especially when your intelligence will let you excell in it. The odds of making it as a professional in pool are so slim that any intelligent person will instantly realize that it is too much of a gamble. Pool is not particularly intellectually stimulating either...3 cushion is a lot more demanding of memory, understanding and knowledge than pool, since you are simultaneusly trying to control 3 balls, and since you will frequently find yourself in novel situations. Most pool shots are just variations on a few themes. The exception of course is one pocket, which is why many intelligent players gravitate to that particular pool discipline.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I think intelligence is a real handicap in cue sports if it helps you feel fear. Some players are too stupid to choke.

Who are the obviously intelligent players anyway? For snooker players, judging from their bios, music tastes, fashion sense, favourite tv programmes and the like, and how they speak and what they say, none strike me as classically intelligent in any way.

In short, and contradicting myself slightly, i don't think intelligence really matters either way.

 

[lfigueroa]

That's a good point about speeding up play. If it is true that thinking too much causes problems, speeding up should prevent that.

My problem with playing fast is that when you miss, you feel like an idiot and think "I should have taken an extra couple of seconds." But I guess that's the wrong way to look at it - we're probably just as likely to miss after taking extra time, but it doesn't stand out as much.

But yeah, the idea that it's good to be stupid is pretty ridiculous. I was just trying to find a kernel of truth in it.

I think, once you decide on your shot, you should play at a consistent speed.

You need to give your body parts the right amount of time to get into their assigned positions. Give them too long, or not long enough, and who knows where they'll end up.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Patrick Johnson]

... technical aspects of shooting pool ... while interesting, probably won't help you when down on the shot.

I agree that shooting is no time to be consciously thinking about technical stuff - but I also think that all factual info adds to our "pool intelligence", which can improve our performance when down on the shot.

pj
chgo

 

[Ron Swanson]

I agree that shooting is no time to be consciously thinking about technical stuff - but I also think that all factual info adds to our "pool intelligence", which can improve our performance when down on the shot.

pj
chgo

Not to be rude or anything but how do you reconcile your own undoubted knowledge with being so thoroughly crap at pool?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Not to be rude or anything but how do you reconcile your own undoubted knowledge with being so thoroughly crap at pool?

Do you think sniping at "enemies" raises or lowers your value here?

pj
chgo

 

[Straightpool_99]

I agree that shooting is no time to be consciously thinking about technical stuff - but I also think that all factual info adds to our "pool intelligence", which can improve our performance when down on the shot.

pj
chgo

If 9 and 10 ball pool exists 100 years from now, 16 year old whiz kids will still win world championships, not because they are smart, but because of their tremendously good eyesight and hand-to-eye coordination. The knowledge we aquire have very, very little impact on the execution although it will help our decision making process. Smart people tend to overinflate the value of intellect over chance and other factors. The fact is pool is a game of execution. A perfect shotmaking robot will defeat even the smartest opponent. Perfect shotmaking and kicking cannot be stopped. It has been seen even in one pocket. Knowledge can be worth a lot at a certain level, but at the very summit of performance, the genetic "freaks" rule in every sport.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

If 9 and 10 ball pool exists 100 years from now, 16 year old whiz kids will still win world championships, not because they are smart, but because of their tremendously good eyesight and hand-to-eye coordination. The knowledge we aquire have very, very little impact on the execution although it will help our decision making process. Smart people tend to overinflate the value of intellect over chance and other factors. The fact is pool is a game of execution. A perfect shotmaking robot will defeat even the smartest opponent. Perfect shotmaking and kicking cannot be stopped. It has been seen even in one pocket. Knowledge can be worth a lot at a certain level, but at the very summit of performance, the genetic "freaks" rule in every sport.

Of course talent, skill and experience are far more important than technical knowledge - I don't think that's in dispute.

But to whatever degree it does matter, technical knowledge can only enhance performance, not impede it - there's no such thing as too much knowledge.

pj
chgo

 

[pt109]

Not to be rude or anything but how do you reconcile your own undoubted knowledge with being so thoroughly crap at pool?

Is this one of y our posting lessons?

...I may have trouble getting the hang of it

 

[Darkridder]

Did we come to a conclusion that we can all agree on here?

Yes or no?

 

[Mikjary]

Not to be rude or anything but how do you reconcile your own undoubted knowledge with being so thoroughly crap at pool?

Do you think sniping at "enemies" raises or lowers your value here?

pj
chgo

He's right, Ron. You made some good points and you guys got a little discussion going. I was reading it and agreeing with both of your opinions to a degree, then KPOW!

Best,
Mike