Thanks to the A-Hole who recommended using a +/-.005 machinist level for my table...

K

ktrepal85

Banned
As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...
 
ktrepal85 said:
As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...
Click to expand...
As long as the slates are correct I always did my final leveling using a pattern of ball rolling. When I was in the pool room business if someone said a tables seemed to have a roll I would check it. If it did it just took me a short time to get it perfect.

Over the years I have leveled hundreds of table using this method. Setting up a new table I would rough it in with a level but to get it perfect I used the ball rolling method. I have seen others do it with the same good results.
 
macguy said:
As long as the slates are correct I always did my final leveling using a pattern of ball rolling. When I was in the pool room business if someone said a tables seemed to have a roll I would check it. If it did it just took me a short time to get it perfect.

Over the years I have leveled hundreds of table using this method. Setting up a new table I would rough it in with a level but to get it perfect I used the ball rolling method. I have seen others do it with the same good results.
Click to expand...

This method has been going around for a long time.:p:p:p

Jeff Livingston
 
macguy said:
As long as the slates are correct I always did my final leveling using a pattern of ball rolling. When I was in the pool room business if someone said a tables seemed to have a roll I would check it. If it did it just took me a short time to get it perfect.

Over the years I have leveled hundreds of table using this method. Setting up a new table I would rough it in with a level but to get it perfect I used the ball rolling method. I have seen others do it with the same good results.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why anyone would ever just use a level (of any kind).

The whole point of the game is to roll balls on the table. Wouldn't you always want to do that to make sure the table plays correctly before calling the job "done?"
 
Mikey Town said:
I'm not sure why anyone would ever just use a level (of any kind).

The whole point of the game is to roll balls on the table. Wouldn't you always want to do that to make sure the table plays correctly before calling the job "done?"
Click to expand...

Have you ever used a very accurate high quality machinists level? If you have, this might be easier to understand. Rolling the ball is way more accurate than some 4 foot carpenters level. But not nearly as accurate as a good machinists level.

So that is why.

KMRUNOUT
 
I'm going to have to call b.s. on this one. First of all the slates are not even milled to those tolerances and the variances in the cloth are more than that. You will NEVER obtain level to 0.0005" for a pool table or see any component of a pool table made to that tolerance.
 
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gutshot said:
I'm going to have to call b.s. on this one. First of all the slates are not even milled to those tolerances and the variances in the cloth are more than that. You will NEVER obtain level to 0.0005" for a pool table or see any component of a pool table made to that tolerance.
Click to expand...

Call bullshit then...what kind of proof do you need?
 
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I have used water levels with great success. Fill up a see through plastic tune & lay it out on the table have a look. Lay it out in a triple S configuration.
 
ktrepal85 said:
As recommended by the AZB forums I bought a +/-.005" machinist level and used it. The balls still rolled off some and I knew it wasn't right. I then talked to some people in the pool hall and realized I need a +/-.0005" level which they let me borrow. Now my table is playing perfect!

Hopefully someone won't make the same mistake I made and will save their money...
Click to expand...

Don't they say "It's not the level, it's the mechanic?"
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Have you ever used a very accurate high quality machinists level? If you have, this might be easier to understand. Rolling the ball is way more accurate than some 4 foot carpenters level. But not nearly as accurate as a good machinists level.

So that is why.

KMRUNOUT
Click to expand...
I am not debating this but the surface of a pool table is imperfect due to being covered in fairly thick cloth. You can set the level on the table three times and get a different reading.

You can press it into the cloth and get a different reading. Once you have a reading you still have to now adjust the table and get yet another reading. Just depending on the level will drive you nuts and when you are done.

Even a guy using a level will have to check his work by rolling balls. No table mechanic would level up a table with a level and then say, "It's perfect, I am leaving now". His phone would be ringing before he got a block away unless he got really lucky

Once you know the method rolling a ball is very easy and accurate. You can roll the ball three or four times in one pattern and see what it does and you know exactly what you need to do and how much. You can tune the table right in so to speak.
 
With brand new cloth on a 100% level table there is going to be balls rolling off.. Its called tracking. The balls will follow the threads in the cloth until they wear down a bit.. Nobody gets the cloth on exactly straight so at slow speeds this happens also..

Just hit the ball harder.. :)
 
I don't need any proof because I know it cannot be done. You may have put a machinist level that is capable of reading to 0.0005" on the table, but the table is not level to that accuracy over the whole bed surface.

ktrepal85 said:
Call bullshit then...what kind of proof do you need?
Click to expand...
 
gutshot said:
I don't need any proof because I know it cannot be done. You may have put a machinist level that is capable of reading to 0.0005" on the table, but the table is not level to that accuracy over the whole bed surface.
Click to expand...
Related to which, here are the official equipment specs:
4. Slates
The thickness must be at least 1 inch [2.54 cm], and the playing surface must be capable, either by its own strength or a combination of its strength and that of the table base frame, of maintaining an overall flatness within + .020 inches [.508 mm] lengthwise and + .010 inches [.254 mm] across the width. Further this surface should have an additional deflection not to exceed .030 inches [.762 mm] when loaded with a concentrated static force of 200 pounds [90.7 kg] at its center. All slate joints must be in the same plane within .005 inch [.127 mm] after leveling and shimming. Tournament tables must have a set of slates consisting of three pieces of equal size with wooden frame of at least ¾ inch [1.905 cm] thick lumber attached underneath the slate. The slate sections must be
secured to the base frame with countersunk screws or bolts.
​
But I suspect the the 0.0005 number is the amount in inches that you have to raise one end of the level to get the bubble to move one division. To get from there to table flatness/level takes a few translations.
 
If you look at Starret's flat granite surfaces for machinists - only the AA Grade Laboratory surfaces are built within a .0005" tolerance - and then just under for a piece the size of a pool table (yes they have them - and they are a foot thick) anything less than laboratory grade and the tolerances are orders of magnitude higher - there is no way a pool table slate comes anywhere near that.

Source
 
As an ex-toolmaker (30 plus years) I'd like to point out:

.005 indicates 5 thousandths of an inch

.0005 indicates 5 ten thousandths of an inch

Arnaldo
 
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