Wavy joint shaft, on a 3/8x10 Butt. how bad?

A

asbani

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hello cue makers, My cue (butt) is a 3/8x10. and recently I bought two new shafts but they werent available on 3/8x10, and I understand that the Wavy joint is the same thread size just like the 3/8x10 but with one extra thread? I don't know if i'm understanding this wrong.

But all what I really would like to know is, if I use those Wavy shafts on my 3/8x10 Butt, will that work? will the shafts actually screw and stay flush without damaging anything? will it also effect my shots or will it play just as well as a 3/8x10 shafts? thanks.

p.s. I ask this cause I can't modify or go to repairman to change joint/pin of shafts. so they will stay wavy
 
asbani said:
Hello cue makers, My cue (butt) is a 3/8x10. and recently I bought two new shafts but they werent available on 3/8x10, and I understand that the Wavy joint is the same thread size just like the 3/8x10 but with one extra thread? I don't know if i'm understanding this wrong.

But all what I really would like to know is, if I use those Wavy shafts on my 3/8x10 Butt, will that work? will the shafts actually screw and stay flush without damaging anything? will it also effect my shots or will it play just as well as a 3/8x10 shafts? thanks.

p.s. I ask this cause I can't modify or go to repairman to change joint/pin of shafts. so they will stay wavy
Click to expand...


There is no magic wand.

Find someone with a Wavy tap and have them plug your shafts and use the correct tool for the correct fit.

I would start by contacting KJ at Sieberts.

JMO,

Rick
 
scdiveteam said:
There is no magic wand.

Find someone with a Wavy tap and have them plug your shafts and use the correct tool for the correct fit.

I would start by contacting KJ at Sieberts.

JMO,

Rick
Click to expand...

So in order to fit a wavy joint shaft on a 3/8-10 butt, you want him to plug the wavy joint shaft and then tap with a wavy joint tap?

To the OP: I don't know if the wavy joint is cut anywhere near the same as 3/8-10, but if the shaft will easily screw on the butt, you will likely do no harm to the shaft. I don't advise this, but you don't seem willing to have the shafts sent and modified, so you are left with either trying to use them (and risk damage), selling them or buying a wavy joint.

I'd just like to take this moment and say, 'Screw mezz and their ridiculous lies about the wavy joint.'
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
So in order to fit a wavy joint shaft on a 3/8-10 butt, you want him to plug the wavy joint shaft and then tap with a wavy joint tap?

To the OP: I don't know if the wavy joint is cut anywhere near the same as 3/8-10, but if the shaft will easily screw on the butt, you will likely do no harm to the shaft. I don't advise this, but you don't seem willing to have the shafts sent and modified, so you are left with either trying to use them (and risk damage), selling them or buying a wavy joint.

I'd just like to take this moment and say, 'Screw mezz and their ridiculous lies about the wavy joint.'
Click to expand...

It's called Wavy joint b/c you wave your money buying that stupidly expensive tap.
They fab their own 3/8 9 in the Philippines to accomodate that bastard.
 
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ElCorazonFrio said:
So in order to fit a wavy joint shaft on a 3/8-10 butt, you want him to plug the wavy joint shaft and then tap with a wavy joint tap?

To the OP: I don't know if the wavy joint is cut anywhere near the same as 3/8-10, but if the shaft will easily screw on the butt, you will likely do no harm to the shaft. I don't advise this, but you don't seem willing to have the shafts sent and modified, so you are left with either trying to use them (and risk damage), selling them or buying a wavy joint.

I'd just like to take this moment and say, 'Screw mezz and their ridiculous lies about the wavy joint.'
Click to expand...

I see your point. Plug and tap 3/8 10 on the shafts. Me bad.

I guess if it fits what harm would it do because the worst thing that could happen is to plug and tap the 3/8 10 anyway.
 
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asbani said:
Hello cue makers, My cue (butt) is a 3/8x10. and recently I bought two new shafts but they werent available on 3/8x10, and I understand that the Wavy joint is the same thread size just like the 3/8x10 but with one extra thread? I don't know if i'm understanding this wrong.

But all what I really would like to know is, if I use those Wavy shafts on my 3/8x10 Butt, will that work? will the shafts actually screw and stay flush without damaging anything? will it also effect my shots or will it play just as well as a 3/8x10 shafts? thanks.

p.s. I ask this cause I can't modify or go to repairman to change joint/pin of shafts. so they will stay wavy
Click to expand...

Don't compound one bad decision with a second even worse decision.

Buy a wavy jointed butt and use the shafts on it.

Dale
 
thanks for all the answers, but I can't buy a wavy join butt, because I love my custom cue which is a 3/8x10 American made.

Anyway, the shaft only comes as Wavy and I will try to insert it - if there's a struggle ill take it to a guy who will try to help me.

but my question is, what exactly is the 3/8x9, and 3/8x10 difference, I mean, doesnt the first two number means the size of threads, and the last number means the number of threads? which means my butt and shaft are literally the same joint except the shaft got 9 threads instead of 10? I'm only trying to understand cause if thats the case, the result should be is that the shaft will fit into the butt, but each time i put it in, maybe my butt's joint will damage a bit of the wood inside until it stops which means i've eaten a bit of wood with the 10th extra thread (on the butt)

all of this is assumption based on my highlighted paragraph, if thats true ofcourse, if its false then another story
 
the last number is threads per inch, Not threads total. So the 3/8x10 will have more threads per inch than the 3/8x9. It will cause damage.
 
I use a wavy joint shaft (WX900) on the 3/8x10 pin (Jim Baxter and Kenny Murrell butts).

The wavy joint may be used on modified 3/8x10 pins (flat bottom), but not on the regular 3/8x10 (McDermott style). The shaft screws in without any problems for about 3/4 of its length and the rest of 1/4 has to be a little bit forced. I managed to do that without any damage, but it has to be done carefully and gradually. Bottom line, it is a metal pin on wood thread, so it will take it, if it is gently manoeuvred.

Please be advised that this is not a recommendation, but only a presentation of my own experience.

My shaft works perfectly and I play this way (flat bottom 3/8x10 pin on wavy joint shaft) for more that 18 months now.
 
Alright Val, thanks to share your experience with this - my Wavy shaft didn't arrive yet, soon it will and i will post here of how it works with my 3/8x10 butt, I'm thinking it will work too cause my butt is a custom Mike gullysay cue.
 
asbani said:
Alright Val, thanks to share your experience with this - my Wavy shaft didn't arrive yet, soon it will and i will post here of how it works with my 3/8x10 butt, I'm thinking it will work too cause my butt is a custom Mike gullysay cue.
Click to expand...

Mike uses an import radial, doesn't he ?

Here's a good solution to bastard screws.:grin:
 
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asbani said:
Alright Val, thanks to share your experience with this - my Wavy shaft didn't arrive yet, soon it will and i will post here of how it works with my 3/8x10 butt, I'm thinking it will work too cause my butt is a custom Mike gullysay cue.
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I'm thinking it will work too cause my butt is a custom Mike gullysay cue."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It won't.

Basically, you have posted asking for advice from cuemakers who know what they
are talking about - then steadfastly refuse to take that advise - till someone finally
tells you what you want to hear.

Here's a thought - why don't you ask Mr. Gullysay what he thinks?

Dale
 
pdcue said:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" I'm thinking it will work too cause my butt is a custom Mike gullysay cue."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It won't.

Basically, you have posted asking for advice from cuemakers who know what they
are talking about - then steadfastly refuse to take that advise - till someone finally
tells you what you want to hear.

Here's a thought - why don't you ask Mr. Gullysay what he thinks?

Dale
Click to expand...

First of all I didn't refuse to take advise, I stated it perfectly clear in the original post that I cannot change pins or modify the shaft to another size, thats the thing, I just can't modify either the butt or the shaft and I said that clearly. And I wasn't waiting for someone to tell me what to hear, I just wanted someone who have tried this before to tell me if it worked for them or not, and you clearly didn't try it, you clearly just gave an answer without trying because guess what.

Shaft arrived and it worked out just fine, I haven't modified anything, as I stated that I COULDN'T. which is why I asked here. "read the p.s. in the original post thanks"

its not a matter of that i wanted to hear something specific, it was just not looking for an advise of which tells me "Go to repairman and modify joint or shaft" I just ignored those because I stated that i can't.

pdcue said:
It won't.
Click to expand...

It worked lol.
 
asbani said:
First of all I didn't refuse to take advise, I stated it perfectly clear in the original post that I cannot change pins or modify the shaft to another size, thats the thing, I just can't modify either the butt or the shaft and I said that clearly. And I wasn't waiting for someone to tell me what to hear, I just wanted someone who have tried this before to tell me if it worked for them or not, and you clearly didn't try it, you clearly just gave an answer without trying because guess what.

Shaft arrived and it worked out just fine, I haven't modified anything, as I stated that I COULDN'T. which is why I asked here. "read the p.s. in the original post thanks"

its not a matter of that i wanted to hear something specific, it was just not looking for an advise of which tells me "Go to repairman and modify joint or shaft" I just ignored those because I stated that i can't.



It worked lol.
Click to expand...

Well, as a matter of fact, it didn't.

Just because you were able to screw the shaft onto your butt doesn't mean it works.
Obviously you are too naïve and too intellectually lazy to care about why.

Dale
 
I am actually a little surprised that someone would order 2 shafts knowing that the threads and pin are not the same and assume it will screw together. It may screw down now with effort, but I would suspect that the threads in the shaft are going to let go at some point, like when it gets tightened down properly, like a 3/8x10 joint should be. I'd also would be curious how straight it rolls together.
Hope all ends well.
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
I am actually a little surprised that someone would order 2 shafts knowing that the threads and pin are not the same and assume it will screw together. It may screw down now with effort, but I would suspect that the threads in the shaft are going to let go at some point, like when it gets tightened down properly, like a 3/8x10 joint should be. I'd also would be curious how straight it rolls together.
Hope all ends well.
Dave
Click to expand...

If what others say is true and the wavy is 3/8-9, it won't screw together without ruining threads.

As for being straight, the threads don't keep the cue straight. This is such a misconception in cuestick making and buying.

The pin can align the joints, but it is only the joint faces which will keep a cue straight.
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
If what others say is true and the wavy is 3/8-9, it won't screw together without ruining threads.

As for being straight, the threads don't keep the cue straight. This is such a misconception in cuestick making and buying.

The pin can align the joints, but it is only the joint faces which will keep a cue straight.
Click to expand...

I build and repair cues.... IMO, your above statement is not completely true. You are correct about damaging the threads when threading a 9tpi screw into a 10 tpi wood thread. It may fit dia. wise but will cause some damage over time. The part I disagree on is when forcing on a shaft that doesn't match the pin threads, it can cause things not to line up properly. While the joint may appear to be tight after screwing it down, the shaft may actually bind up before the 2 flat surfaces are actually mated properly and cause it to cant the shaft, hence causing a wobble or a straightness issue. That is partly caused by the threads not being a match of the tpi and also the actual shape of the thread, and allowing some wiggle room to develop.
Dave
 
Dave38 said:
I build and repair cues.... IMO, your above statement is not completely true. You are correct about damaging the threads when threading a 9tpi screw into a 10 tpi wood thread. It may fit dia. wise but will cause some damage over time. The part I disagree on is when forcing on a shaft that doesn't match the pin threads, it can cause things not to line up properly. While the joint may appear to be tight after screwing it down, the shaft may actually bind up before the 2 flat surfaces are actually mated properly and cause it to cant the shaft, hence causing a wobble or a straightness issue. That is partly caused by the threads not being a match of the tpi and also the actual shape of the thread, and allowing some wiggle room to develop.
Dave
Click to expand...

If the cue binds up before the flats are seated, it is (by definition) not completely screwed together and all but the most obtuse would argue this point.

BTW, I taught myself how to build cues at 19. I was making short splices by 21. No apprenticeship, no videos, just me designing them. I am a mechanical engineer now.
 
ElCorazonFrio said:
If what others say is true and the wavy is 3/8-9, it won't screw together without ruining threads.

As for being straight, the threads don't keep the cue straight. This is such a misconception in cuestick making and buying.

The pin can align the joints, but it is only the joint faces which will keep a cue straight.
Click to expand...

How about concentricity ?
 
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