Best "Affordable" 4th Axis

[gio-XZero]

George

You remember somebody saying something bout humility?

Things started to go south when YOU began negativity and discounting others ideas and suggestions because YOU know better. Things haven't changed much from those months and months you speak of. Sometimes it's good to be wrong.

Keep an open mind......I'll leave you alone now.

I happen to still like the XZero machine and still advocate for it.

Months and month i speak of?
For one, i didn't even sell motors at that time.
I just warned people of problem and they didn't like it.

So i guess your saying, i should have not told people about the problems with motor kits and just let more and more people throw their money away,They where not cheap motors and a few people that got them had no money left to replace them.
So i should have just agreed with the negativity and discounting others towards me and said their product is great just to make my product look better ?
I treat all my customers the best i can and would never mislead a single person just to save my name

 

[gio-XZero]

George

I have to say that I really don't understand.

I haven't asked you a single thing about clearpath. I have asked you for 2 things in these recent posts:

I asked about whether or not you were aware of the SD clearpath motors. Which is about you, not clearpath.

And I asked you to tell me about leadshine's systems. I even begged you for some information and you still come back as though I'm bashing you and leadshine.

I'm sorry that, for whatever reason, you are so insistent that I mean you harm when I really don't.

I really have no idea about whatever issues you had with servos in the past. I don't know about runaway machines either. If you had replied with real world experience about those issues and what caused them I'm sure this thread would have gone down a completely different path. Instead, you chose to play defense when there isn't anyone on offense!

I'm sorry if I've offended you. I certainly never felt as though I was on offense, so offending you never crossed my mind. I just wanted to have a conversation.


Royce

Hi Royce,
Yes i did express the issues, That was from months of lots of machines not cutting right. moving half inch of cuts , no circles. I had just sold the frames and that is it.
It was always the machine people were told. Not till more and more people all started having the same problems and it was only the ones with those motors kits.But that was a long road to get to that point .The people with run away machines all started to share their problems and they were all the same but that was almost a year later.

On info on the leadshine, you can call them and they will tell you everything you would want to know. They are very easy to talk to in California. Ask for Chris.
They have treated all my clients with great service when they call, and they don't even sell to end users, If they do its high price .
They give for my clients the craziest pricing on units, Cheaper than company's that sell leadshine overseas.
Lots of upgrades to the on the leadshine MX4660 have to do with my clients that have the MX3660 and their input. Having the first MX4660 and getting it tested out in real world by a lot of people and their input is why it is so good
I never said you were bashing me at all, i never think you would. If you look at a couple post you can see some hints of it starting.

Your more than welcome to ask anything about the machines and i will answer instantly . Any input to make machine even better is always welcome .
Again , i have 100s and 100s of happy customers with leadshine.
Teknic does to , so it up to the person getting kits to decide what they want

Here is a XZero Demon making mold , machine runs 48 hours straight some times and has Teknic 750w motors

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BX50c36z__E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7GASV8x7Kg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlhTxO42RHg

 

[Mc2]

Sir, please educate me on the subject of your motors? They in deed look like a fine setup. Can you tell me, when setting up Mach 3 for these motors how many steps per rev. do you use. If I understand correctly the pulse count is 1000. So it would be 1000 X your pitch?

Jim.

George, I am not sure if I have ever quoted myself before, could you please answer my question. I would assume that you are familiar with the motor setup of Mach 3. What is the smallest movement that the leadshine motor can make? I am talking about actual rotation of the motor not the programmable settings on the input. I know you can set an amp to except more and less pulses than what the motor can actually step.

As far as motors running away, I will assume that they where not the leadshine. Any if it matters I don't see this as your fault. I will start with blame of the operators who where not educated in proper machine operations. A machine running away like that will have nothing to do with it mechanically. It sounds like to me either a feedback cable broke, a bad pulse coder, or the Mach 3 jog stuck on scenario. Either way, bad education on the parts of whom ever blamed you.

Now that does bring up an interesting question. Maybe you know the answer or maybe not. If you do please let me know. What would happen with the leadshine motor if the feedback cable where to become disconnected or opens in any way. Would the motor just stop, or would it run away as you mentioned on your previous threads. This question in no way can or should have anything to do with how you construct a machine.

Thanks, Jim.

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Hi Royce,
[...]
I never said you were bashing me at all, i never think you would. If you look at a couple post [/b]you can see some hints of it starting.[/B]

[...]

So, "yes"?... "no"?... "maybe"?... One way to tell - did he ever refer to you as "absurd"?

On an unrelated note, George, were you ever a hard-hat diver by any chance?

TW

 

[gio-XZero]

George, I am not sure if I have ever quoted myself before, could you please answer my question. I would assume that you are familiar with the motor setup of Mach 3. What is the smallest movement that the leadshine motor can make? I am talking about actual rotation of the motor not the programmable settings on the input. I know you can set an amp to except more and less pulses than what the motor can actually step.

As far as motors running away, I will assume that they where not the leadshine. Any if it matters I don't see this as your fault. I will start with blame of the operators who where not educated in proper machine operations. A machine running away like that will have nothing to do with it mechanically. It sounds like to me either a feedback cable broke, a bad pulse coder, or the Mach 3 jog stuck on scenario. Either way, bad education on the parts of whom ever blamed you.

Now that does bring up an interesting question. Maybe you know the answer or maybe not. If you do please let me know. What would happen with the leadshine motor if the feedback cable where to become disconnected or opens in any way. Would the motor just stop, or would it run away as you mentioned on your previous threads. This question in no way can or should have anything to do with how you construct a machine.

Thanks, Jim.

The default easy servo setting is 2000 steps per turn. AT16 microsteps, that would be 3200 steps per turn. so 3200 x 25.4/10 , that would equal 8128 in mach3 setting .
With 25 pitch it would be with same setting 3200 x 25.4 / 25 = 3.251.2
For info on Leadshine it is best to contact them. But if encoder cable breaks or loses single it will fault. With encoder feed back to controller you would be able to back up a bit from where it stopped and start again . They also have the integrated motors and drivers also .AC servo too
If you like to know about machines your more than welcome to ask

 

[gio-XZero]

So, "yes"?... "no"?... "maybe"?... One way to tell - did he ever refer to you as "absurd"?

On an unrelated note, George, were you ever a hard-hat diver by any chance?

TW

NOPE Sorry was not

I never referred to you as Absurd , it was your comment i said it about

Here is Mini Raptor also with small Nema 23 and MX3660 if you can believe with just low cost Hitachi spindle

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3KcqdbEK90

 

[scdiveteam]

So, "yes"?... "no"?... "maybe"?... One way to tell - did he ever refer to you as "absurd"?

On an unrelated note, George, were you ever a hard-hat diver by any chance?

TW

George marches to his own drum beat. Having hundreds of machines sold to all of those satisfied customers speeks volumes to his credability. He's not knocking anyone or anything. As he said you can buy a platform from him and you can use other components if you want. To me and my opinion he does not wish to argue. Smart man.

Btw if you or anyone else email George he will answer any questions one on one. Why would someone expect a business man to speek his mind about other companies in public. George has choosen Leadshine for his vendor to supply components. Leadshine is a huge corporation and supplier that has passed his tests with flying colors.

Some have asked about setting up Mach 3 and I will be doing that myself soon. When I do I will just call Leon Sly and move on. No need to call George he is a busy man but if you have those questions, George will respond to phone calls or email. He is very easy to get in touch with.

There are other CNC forums to sort these things out and George is held in high esteem with respect by a lot of people.

If you don't like leadshine products that's cool and should not be George's burden.


Since you have brought me in to the discussion with the hard hat dive comparrison, rather that argue lets have a little fun and turn the other check.

"Just when I thought I was out, they draw me back in". Quote Michael Corlione - Godfather III

Now for a little song.


Sung to the tune of Rubber Duckie:


Creepy Stalker your the one

Now your having all your fun

Creepy Stalker you're a favorite friend of mine

LOL. Good Buddy. :thumbup:

Your BFF

Ricky

 

[gio-XZero]

It might sound funny , and maybe worth the headache .In 2 days sold 3 machines and 2 more today from just reading this thread . So i guess it is worth the headache .
Again i gave them my info on leadshine and everyone is satisfied with info i gave them.
Amazed that lot of the people here sending email and not to ask about machines.Thanks
A lot of great people on here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rayfGkkc5EM

 

[RBC]

George marches to his own drum beat. Having hundreds of machines sold to all of those satisfied customers speeks volumes to his credability. He's not knocking anyone or anything. As he said you can buy a platform from him and you can use other components if you want. To me and my opinion he does not wish to argue. Smart man.

Btw if you or anyone else email George he will answer any questions one on one. Why would someone expect a business man to speek his mind about other companies in public. George has choosen Leadshine for his vendor to supply components. Leadshine is a huge corporation and supplier that has passed his tests with flying colors.

Some have asked about setting up Mach 3 and I will be doing that myself soon. When I do I will just call Leon Sly and move on. No need to call George he is a busy man but if you have those questions, George will respond to phone calls or email. He is very easy to get in touch with.

There are other CNC forums to sort these things out and George is held in high esteem with respect by a lot of people.

If you don't like leadshine products that's cool and should not be George's burden.


Since you have brought me in to the discussion with the hard hat dive comparrison, rather that argue lets have a little fun and turn the other check.

"Just when I thought I was out, they draw me back in". Quote Michael Corlione - Godfather III

Now for a little song.


Sung to the tune of Rubber Duckie:


Creepy Stalker your the one

Now your having all your fun

Creepy Stalker you're a favorite friend of mine

LOL. Good Buddy. :thumbup:

Your BFF

Ricky

Rick

Why is it that you think I'm asking George to bash leadshine?
Why is it that you think I'm asking George to endorse Clearpath?

All I'm asking for are answers to some very simple questions about how to implement a leadshine system. That's all! And I still don't have the simplest of answers.

I give up


Royce

 

[scdiveteam]

Rick

Why is it that you think I'm asking George to bash leadshine?
Why is it that you think I'm asking George to endorse Clearpath?

All I'm asking for are answers to some very simple questions about how to implement a leadshine system. That's all! And I still don't have the simplest of answers.

I give up


Royce

No your questions are super valid for sure and to me you have gone out of your way to be respectful.

If he responds here there will be backlash. One way or the other. ( a pun )

Call him on the phone. Don't give up.

George is a good guy and good business man.

Rick

 

[gio-XZero]

Again , there nothing wrong with Clearpath motors or any of the smart driver motors out there.
For a lot of other application they would be great and can use the to their full and get good value out of them.
On a router, you would have to turn off all the good stuff your paying for and just let controller control the machine
I know about the jitter control as i have already went though it

This video it even runs belt and pulley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBhURp_ZDik

 

[Thomas Wayne]

Again , there nothing wrong with Clearpath motors or any of the smart driver motors out there.
For a lot of other application they would be great and can use the to their full and get good value out of them.
On a router, you would have to turn off all the good stuff your paying for and just let controller control the machine
[...]

The above high-lighted statement clearly proves you don't know what you're talking about regarding the Clearpath SDSK motors. The only "good stuff" we don't generally use is the output signal... but it CAN be used for CNC related tasks if one cares to - such as triggering a Z-axis brake, remotely signaling individual motor condition(s), etc.

Some of us here are very familiar with these Clearpath motors. I personally have installed and configured MANY of them, and have spent hours conferring with the engineers about what they can and cannot do. Several times in this thread you've indicated that you haven't done that sort of research on them, so you really need to quit pretending you know anything about them at all, because you clearly do not - and it reflects heavily on your credibility.

TW

 

[JoeyInCali]

Why would someone expect a business man to speek his mind about other companies in public.

They're SPEAKING about motors for crying out loud.
Not other cnc machines.

 

[pescadoman]

No your questions are super valid for sure and to me you have gone out of your way to be respectful.

If he responds here there will be backlash. One way or the other. ( a pun )

Call him on the phone. Don't give up.

George is a good guy and good business man.

Rick

Objectively speaking. If one sells BMW's, it would behoove him to know a thing or two about Audi and Mercerdes. Simply saying "those are the wrong cars for you" without elaborating, has a less than positive result, which is what we are seeing here.

George has many machines in service with little to no issues that I know of recently. The biggest, and only, gripes I know of regard shipping, missing parts, and assembly instructions.

I've been following George for a long time. I can't remember who first made me aware of his machines, but it was back when he was still making Viper's with round rails.

We know Royce has one and is happy with it and, with the oem environment it's being used in, that is a pretty good endorsement. As far as answering questions here publicly...well, it's been disappointing.

Yah, he has a website. There has been more of a discussion here than I've seen in the last YEAR over there.

I'll further Thomas' remark about Clearpath's engineers. They are very knowledgeable and explain things in a way most can understand.

 

[ratcues]

Does anyone have video of these machines in a cue building application?

 

[scdiveteam]

Objectively speaking. If one sells BMW's, it would behoove him to know a thing or two about Audi and Mercerdes. Simply saying "those are the wrong cars for you" without elaborating, has a less than positive result, which is what we are seeing here.

George has many machines in service with little to no issues that I know of recently. The biggest, and only, gripes I know of regard shipping, missing parts, and assembly instructions.

I've been following George for a long time. I can't remember who first made me aware of his machines, but it was back when he was still making Viper's with round rails.

We know Royce has one and is happy with it and, with the oem environment it's being used in, that is a pretty good endorsement. As far as answering questions here publicly...well, it's been disappointing.

Yah, he has a website. There has been more of a discussion here than I've seen in the last YEAR over there.

I'll further Thomas' remark about Clearpath's engineers. They are very knowledgeable and explain things in a way most can understand.

Randy,

After my request:

George sent me 2 pdfs with pics and step by step assembly instructions for my 18 X 48 machine.

Also the 1 Leadshine pdf with the wiring config. and other information.

If you don't have them, give me a PM of your email and I will send the PDFs to you sir.

Rick

 

[RBC]

Does anyone have video of these machines in a cue building application?

Ryan

I do have an XZero Raptor machine. I've had it for a couple of years now.

We use it for inlay parts mostly. I have 2 NSK spindles with ATC, and 2 vacuum hold down assemblies. We run 2 inlay slabs, 2x24, at a time and the machine does very well.

I don't use proximity sensors for homing as I prefer a very particular optical sensor. I also currently run this machine with steppers run with Gecko G203V drives. It currently holds very good tolerances and rapids at speeds up to 800ipm. I run it around 500 just so none of my employees get caught off guard and hurt themselves. I do use XZero's ball screws with a 10mm pitch on X and Y, and an acme screw on the Z.

I don't have ATC setup on it yet so we currently do the tool changes manually. I could run a video of it cutting some parts when I get back from the show.


Royce

 

[Mc2]

Here is your problem.

Again , there nothing wrong with Clearpath motors or any of the smart driver motors out there.
For a lot of other application they would be great and can use the to their full and get good value out of them.
On a router, you would have to turn off all the good stuff your paying for and just let controller control the machine
I know about the jitter control as i have already went though it

This video it even runs belt and pulley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBhURp_ZDik

George, in one sentence you claim there is nothing wrong with clearpath. In another you claim they would work great for other applications but not for a router.

These statements though I am sure you did not me to counter-dict each other do and make you sound like you don't know any better.

As far as the RAS function and Mach 3 it is not needed. Mach 3 offers an accel and decel function and will smooth out axes start and stop functions. This is not what causes rounded corners. I would suggest reading up on CV mode. If you don't have that information and how to set it up in Mach 3 let me know and I will provide a link to the PDF.

By the way nice plugs on your machines. I don't blame the shameless advertisement but see it for what it is. I am not a customer as I prefer to build my own machines and I don't like your style of gantry. Not saying it a bad designs as it is most popular. They lend themselves to the easiest builds.

I would be a guy that would stand up and say buy a machine from Xzero. That would happen if you tell me that your ball screws are now held with the correct angular contact bearings and nut to pre-load those bearings. If your still just using a coupler and a regular bearing I will advise against it for obvious reasons.

Jim.

 

[Mc2]

The default easy servo setting is 2000 steps per turn. AT16 microsteps, that would be 3200 steps per turn. so 3200 x 25.4/10 , that would equal 8128 in mach3 setting .
With 25 pitch it would be with same setting 3200 x 25.4 / 25 = 3.251.2
For info on Leadshine it is best to contact them. But if encoder cable breaks or loses single it will fault. With encoder feed back to controller you would be able to back up a bit from where it stopped and start again . They also have the integrated motors and drivers also .AC servo too
If you like to know about machines your more than welcome to ask

Ok, got it. You don't actually know the answer so I will have to contact Leadshine. Thats fine as the question I was asking is not an easy one. You can micro step all you want but the actual position count is what I want. I just could not figure out how to ask you without loosing you. For example I can have the regular clearpath motor and set its input count to 6400. Now the pulse coder is only capable of 800 counts. So the motor waits till it sees 4 pulses before it steps once. Now on the other hand the clearpath motor with the 6400 pulse coder on it would step ever pulse sent to it at a smaller increment. Wait, did I say the clearpath had a 6400 count pulse coder? That comes in handing when dealing with a faster or more course ballscrew.

Jim.

 

[gio-XZero]

Objectively speaking. If one sells BMW's, it would behoove him to know a thing or two about Audi and Mercerdes. Simply saying "those are the wrong cars for you" without elaborating, has a less than positive result, which is what we are seeing here.

George has many machines in service with little to no issues that I know of recently. The biggest, and only, gripes I know of regard shipping, missing parts, and assembly instructions.

I've been following George for a long time. I can't remember who first made me aware of his machines, but it was back when he was still making Viper's with round rails.

We know Royce has one and is happy with it and, with the oem environment it's being used in, that is a pretty good endorsement. As far as answering questions here publicly...well, it's been disappointing.

Yah, he has a website. There has been more of a discussion here than I've seen in the last YEAR over there.

I'll further Thomas' remark about Clearpath's engineers. They are very knowledgeable and explain things in a way most can understand.

I have sent you install files 2 times, They are the same as every machine.They are all the very same from same to large