as far as i know Fargo takes into acct who you beat and what THEIR record is and what their opponents record is- which is much more comprehensive than anything you are talking about.
Meanwhile in Qatar
- Thread starter Drop The Rock
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as far as i know Fargo takes into acct who you beat and what THEIR record is and what their opponents record is- which is much more comprehensive than anything you are talking about.
actually yes you can...
There are variables in the winning of a tournament that aren't accounted for in having that title that ARE accounted for in the Fargo ratings.
Ease of draw is one... How many games you gave up to your opponent is another... What the rating of the player you gave games up to is another....
I would suggest that Mike see about tweaking (if he already hasn't) the algorithms to include who is breaking in a given game as I believe that has an effect on overall ability, especially in rotation based games and one hole. It may be too difficult to implement the recording of that though which is the other difficulty, a system that takes into account successful safeties, successful kick safes, successful outs from safes etc, would be more accurate but too cumbersome to implement on a large scale.
Jaden
There are variables in the winning of a tournament that aren't accounted for in having that title that ARE accounted for in the Fargo ratings.
Ease of draw is one... How many games you gave up to your opponent is another... What the rating of the player you gave games up to is another....
I would suggest that Mike see about tweaking (if he already hasn't) the algorithms to include who is breaking in a given game as I believe that has an effect on overall ability, especially in rotation based games and one hole. It may be too difficult to implement the recording of that though which is the other difficulty, a system that takes into account successful safeties, successful kick safes, successful outs from safes etc, would be more accurate but too cumbersome to implement on a large scale.
Jaden
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I reiterate: Again I'm sorry but you can't tell me Ko Pin Yi is the 21st best player in the world with a world 10 ball title under his belt. Darren Appleton is showing as 15th in the world right now...How many of you can honestly say you agree with that? He won the Chinese World 8 ball. which at the very least deserves top 10. Meanwhile Mike Dechaine who is now in his first international event besides the Mosconi is 8th in the world? Seriously what is in the Kool Aid. Oh and Albin Ouschan? 2nd in last years W9ball and 1st in the China open with a 17th place finish in the chinese 8 ball? That guy? 51st according to Fargo...
Does that seem accurate? Simple yes or no will suffice?
Also what has Wu Jia Qing done in the last two years that the handful of world champs at the top of WPA haven't? I'll wait.
No I'll just wait for you to publish your ratings which are obviously perfect.
YEs it seems accurate...
Have you LOOKED at the list of the fargo ratings???
There are MARGINAL differences in 10 of the top twenty of less than 5-10 points, OUT OF 800 points@@!!!
that's no more than 1% difference. So NO, it's not out of the question to put him within 10 points of the number 5 player based on skill and within 2 points out of ~800 of the top ten.
Jaden
Have you LOOKED at the list of the fargo ratings???
There are MARGINAL differences in 10 of the top twenty of less than 5-10 points, OUT OF 800 points@@!!!
that's no more than 1% difference. So NO, it's not out of the question to put him within 10 points of the number 5 player based on skill and within 2 points out of ~800 of the top ten.
Jaden
I don't think many of you really understand how this system works. If you get enough data all you really need to track are the scores. All the other stats are just taking up extra time and space.
Did you win the rack or not? That's all the info you need to compare anybody given enough data.
They are collecting plenty of data. I think the system is the best thing to happen to pool in a long long time.
Did you win the rack or not? That's all the info you need to compare anybody given enough data.
They are collecting plenty of data. I think the system is the best thing to happen to pool in a long long time.
To get a better understanding on how Fargo works, please go to www.fargorate.com and watch the short videos.
Poke around the site a little bit. I think you will see that the system will (and does) work. I think it is easy to miss the point a little bit. It is not based just on who wins the tournaments - but on every match and how they performed. To go by perception is very deceiving.........
The more info Fargo has, the better the ratings are. currently around 35,000 players and 1.4 million games.
Mark Griffin
PS At the recent Tuscon tournament, Fargo predicted 36 winners out of 38 matches. just sayin'
Poke around the site a little bit. I think you will see that the system will (and does) work. I think it is easy to miss the point a little bit. It is not based just on who wins the tournaments - but on every match and how they performed. To go by perception is very deceiving.........
The more info Fargo has, the better the ratings are. currently around 35,000 players and 1.4 million games.
Mark Griffin
PS At the recent Tuscon tournament, Fargo predicted 36 winners out of 38 matches. just sayin'
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Fargo ratings on Qatar top 32
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=406364
This is pertinent to this thread.
Mark Griffin
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=406364
This is pertinent to this thread.
Mark Griffin
Excellent question.
Wu is WPA 30. And we have over 200 games in the last two years for which Wu has played people ABOVE him on the WPA list.
His combined rating against the WPA top 29 is 117 wins and 87 losses.
His combined record against the WPA top 20 is 88 to 74
His combined record against the WPA top 10 is 20 to 14
More specifically in the last two years here are his records against those opponents:
Pin Yi Ko 9 to 4
Ekonomopoulos 11 to 10
Yu Lung Chang 23 to 18
Van Den Berg 18 to 22
Van Boening 7 to 11
Can Wang 9 to 2
Corteza 11 to 7
Boyes 9 to 4
Jun Lin Chang 11 to 4
Che Wei Fu 9 to 5
There is no pool player on the planet with a better record.
People might like to see his record over the last several years against specific opponents. These all contribute to his rating. I put on the list all opponents for whom he has played at least 20 games.
Attachments
the fargo ratings are pie in the sky but they are harmless.
If they were of any significance then players would be trying to corrupt them.
The wpa list is clear in it's objective and that is to rate the performances of players who take part in their events worldwide. Periodically it is used to select and seed players from their rankings.
What you may perceive changes once Mike lays out all the match scores in front of you as he did above.
You can have your own opinion but not your own facts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
You can have your own opinion but not your own facts
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
delete-wrong thread
Well, the one good thing that can come from a rating system like this is, if it was accepted universally, is that players wouldn't have to play musical chairs wondering which tournaments are "points" tournaments and which ones aren't like has happened in the past if things are done by rankings in the future.
And as a result of that, you would never have to deal with some points tournaments stopping being points tournaments temporarily because all the major players just happen to be playing in a tournament across the globe, (like has happened) and other tournaments on smaller tables wouldn't miraculously become points tournament for big table players when the majority of big table players think that is just stupid.
Plus, people trying to get on the Mosconi cup team, who are way down on the waiting list of a "points" tournament, wouldn't need to seemingly have favors pulled for them and have someone "withdraw" from said tournament, because they didn't have enough sense to sign up early enough, despite the fact that there were people higher up on the waiting list, that basically got shafted because you know, the powers that be like to F*ck with things.
All that points garbage, and strong arming players crap, and having players dance for their masters sh*t would hopefully cease to exist.
That is if it's all legit and transparent.
:wink:
And as a result of that, you would never have to deal with some points tournaments stopping being points tournaments temporarily because all the major players just happen to be playing in a tournament across the globe, (like has happened) and other tournaments on smaller tables wouldn't miraculously become points tournament for big table players when the majority of big table players think that is just stupid.
Plus, people trying to get on the Mosconi cup team, who are way down on the waiting list of a "points" tournament, wouldn't need to seemingly have favors pulled for them and have someone "withdraw" from said tournament, because they didn't have enough sense to sign up early enough, despite the fact that there were people higher up on the waiting list, that basically got shafted because you know, the powers that be like to F*ck with things.
All that points garbage, and strong arming players crap, and having players dance for their masters sh*t would hopefully cease to exist.
That is if it's all legit and transparent.
:wink:
Ranking Lists cannot exist in a vacuum so unless a list is created for a purpose other than amusement then it serves no purpose.
A list can be fact packed and be very in depth but if it doesn't get you a World Pool Maters spot or a top 24 seeded place in Qatar then what is the point of it?
A list can be fact packed and be very in depth but if it doesn't get you a World Pool Maters spot or a top 24 seeded place in Qatar then what is the point of it?
Step 1 -- Develop system that picks 36 out of 38 winners
Step 2
Option A -- Publicize it as "FargoRatings" and endure the wrath of AZBilliards
Option B -- Keep it private and name it "FargoRetirementPlan 2.0"
Or perhaps there is an Option C waiting in the wings.
The system was developed independently, so of course it won't be universally utilized initially. However, I think the hope is that it can be used going forward for the various things you've mentioned and much more. It's already being used to help handicap league teams at the amature level, which helps reduce the conspiracy concerns.
Also, to address the previous accuracy concerns - they don't matter. Even if your subjective perceptions are, in fact, more accurate than the compiled data,FargoRatings will fix itself. In other words, if a player's rating is too low, then he'll regularly beat lower ranked players (and by or above the predicted margin) and he'll knock off some of the players who are rated higher than him. His rating will increase, and the issue will be solved. The more data that's compiled, the more accurate everyone's rating will be.
We can now add an 11-6 victory over the WPA #1 player Albin Ouschan.