Hitting it pure...I'm gonna get hate for this but oh well.

I also find it funny that a few people think its all BS while the best players around the country talk about it openly a lot. Some people have no "feel" I guess, but maybe that's because they aren't athletes?

The most force, spin, speed etc. with the least amount of "effort" seems to be a factor. Pool is as much an art as it is science. Its sad when people try to refer to it in black in white. I wonder if that's the way they feel about all sports...

Nice to see Neil refer to the acceleration and tempo and that there is a feel to it.
 
Drop The Rock said:
I also find it funny that a few people think its all BS while the best players around the country talk about it openly a lot. Some people have no "feel" I guess, but maybe that's because they aren't athletes?
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"Feeling" it and knowing what you're feeling are different things. You seem to think only one is helpful - you're wrong.

pj
chgo
 
philly said:
It's being in the zone, as they say. We're all looking for the reason why we can't play our best game all of the time. I think it's because we get in our own way and overthink. It's the feeling of just doing whatever we imagine.. Nothing more. And yes, it is like golf, when you pure an iron and don't even feel the ball on the club head.
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Go grab and read the book "Inner game of tennis". It is the mental game and helps you get in "the zone"!

I've been actively working on the mental aspect of pool for the past 3 months, and I've seen quite some improvement to my overall game. Pleased with that!
 
Swing!

peppersauce said:
I was talking to Gabe Owen some years ago and I asked him about his weird wrist action with his grip hand. His response..."If I start thinking about that I won't be able to make a ball." Lol.
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I remember a music quote..
"The worst thing for a concert pianist to do is think about their hands"


I used to play a lot of baseball... there's only been a couple of times at bat where the timing, swing, location of the ball on the bat, etc. was perfect... I didn't even swing that hard, but the connection was right on.

Same with golf... just that rare moment, where your driver connects perfectly, your fade is right where you wanted it. (can't remember when last I did that!)

So with pool, IMO, it's when you're in the zone, addressing the ball exactly how you intended.... for me, it's a table length shot in the corner... when you hit it good, the sound of the CB hitting the OB, then smacking the back of the corner pocket...
 
Drop The Rock said:
I also find it funny that a few people think its all BS while the best players around the country talk about it openly a lot. Some people have no "feel" I guess, but maybe that's because they aren't athletes?

The most force, spin, speed etc. with the least amount of "effort" seems to be a factor. Pool is as much an art as it is science. Its sad when people try to refer to it in black in white. I wonder if that's the way they feel about all sports...

Nice to see Neil refer to the acceleration and tempo and that there is a feel to it.
Click to expand...
Are you suggesting that 2 hits can be the same, in terms of cue weight, tip speed and tip contact on CB and 2 different results are possible?

I've done a lot of sports, Decathlon and Golf included and have not seen any evidence of mysterious factors. In long drive golf for example, professionals know their potential is limited to the club head speed they can obtain. How they train in terms of stroke tempo is focused upon their potential to develop club head speed and to allow the control required to hit the golf ball in the sweet spot of the club head where the largest Coefficient of Restitution (COR) exists.

Pro pool players may have all kinds of adjectives and explanations for how things happen, some vague, some just their best effort to explain factors they don't have clear language for. Because their explanations are vague, doesn't mean they have some connection with mysterious forces.

Colin
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
"Feeling" it and knowing what you're feeling are different things. You seem to think only one is helpful - you're wrong.

pj
chgo
Click to expand...

You seem to enjoy making assumptions and telling people they are wrong.

Knowing it and having no feel for it only gets you so far. Having one without the other doesn't work very well.

People learn in 3 different ways: auditory, visual, and kinetic. Trying to get them to learn by a diagram or by explaining the angles and the math when they have to learn by doing something is for all intents and purposes - wrong.

For me, analyzing the game and trying to memorize 1/8th of a ball and be a billiards scientist does not work. It may work for you, but that doesn't mean it works for everybody.

I learn auditory followed closely by kinetic. So the feel and sound of the tip contacting the ball help me understand whats happening. The rhythm in my pre shot routine. The points the cue contact in my hand.

These are things I can't diagnose or analyze the way you want me to because I can't explain what feel means to somebody who has none.

Some of you may remember my feelings about CJ Wiley which you can check my rep for. Although TOI didn't make sense to me and didn't work for me, WHO AM I TO SAY ITS WRONG? What qualifies you to tell me with absolute certainty that what I'm saying is wrong if you are making assumptions in the first place?
 
Colin Colenso said:
Are you suggesting that 2 hits can be the same, in terms of cue weight, tip speed and tip contact on CB and 2 different results are possible?

I've done a lot of sports, Decathlon and Golf included and have not seen any evidence of mysterious factors. In long drive golf for example, professionals know their potential is limited to the club head speed they can obtain. How they train in terms of stroke tempo is focused upon their potential to develop club head speed and to allow the control required to hit the golf ball in the sweet spot of the club head where the largest Coefficient of Restitution (COR) exists.

Pro pool players may have all kinds of adjectives and explanations for how things happen, some vague, some just their best effort to explain factors they don't have clear language for. Because their explanations are vague, doesn't mean they have some connection with mysterious forces.

Colin
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No Colin, I should have been more clear my apologies. I'm very happened you mentioned tempo though =]!

I meant that they can feel different.
 
Drop The Rock said:
No Colin, I should have been more clear my apologies. I'm very happened you mentioned tempo though =]!

I meant that they can feel different.
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I agree with that. That's what I was thinking about when I mentioned Timing / Neuromuscular adaptation and bio-mechanical / timing factors. The tempo is part of that.

I've read studies that show strength gains of 50 percent within a couple of week's training, yet hypertophy (muscle growth) showed only a couple of percent increase. The strength gains mainly come from neuromuscular adaptation and to some degree coordination, though the two aspects are interrelated in part. Basically the mind/body learns to be efficient when it repeats a task often.

Colin
 
I notice this "pure" hit on my break sometimes. When it happens it feels like the tip is in contact with the cue ball for about 1 foot of my stroke and the cue ball feels very heavy.
 
Colin Colenso said:
I agree with that. That's what I was thinking about when I mentioned Timing / Neuromuscular adaptation and bio-mechanical / timing factors. The tempo is part of that.

I've read studies that show strength gains of 50 percent within a couple of week's training, yet hypertophy (muscle growth) showed only a couple of percent increase. The strength gains mainly come from neuromuscular adaptation and to some degree coordination, though the two aspects are interrelated in part. Basically the mind/body learns to be efficient when it repeats a task often.

Colin
Click to expand...

This makes a lot of sense in regards to the stroke as well. Different parts of the triceps strengthen depending on where the elbow is pointing. Neuromuscular adaptation is very interesting. When I first tried to deadlift with proper form I could barely break 240 lbs. 3 months later I was maxed at 350 and repping 280 to 300. Its also interesting in regards to just getting back into the gym after a long period of time. It explains how people who have worked out at one time, quickly recover to former strength when they get back into it. Its part of that feel.

I guess a part of it is when the cue feels to be an extension of my body/arm and feels in sync and always me to feel the cue ball, the vibration and the reaction.
 
Drop The Rock said:
This makes a lot of sense in regards to the stroke as well. Different parts of the triceps strengthen depending on where the elbow is pointing. Neuromuscular adaptation is very interesting. When I first tried to deadlift with proper form I could barely break 240 lbs. 3 months later I was maxed at 350 and repping 280 to 300. Its also interesting in regards to just getting back into the gym after a long period of time. It explains how people who have worked out at one time, quickly recover to former strength when they get back into it. Its part of that feel.

I guess a part of it is when the cue feels to be an extension of my body/arm and feels in sync and always me to feel the cue ball, the vibration and the reaction.
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That brings back memories. I deadlifted 230kg (504lbs) at 115kgs weight back in 2000 when training for Shot Put & Discus.

A lot of the quick improvement in strength, after one has reached higher levels previously is actually due to hyperplasia, meaning that more muscle fibers have been developed from previous training and they quickly hypertrophy (grow) upon recommencing training. This combined with neuromuscular adaptation leads to some pretty remarkable gains when a former lifter makes a return after a break.

Cheers,
Colin
 
Colin Colenso said:
That brings back memories. I deadlifted 230kg (504lbs) at 115kgs weight back in 2000 when training for Shot Put & Discus.

A lot of the quick improvement in strength, after one has reached higher levels previously is actually due to hyperplasia, meaning that more muscle fibers have been developed from previous training and they quickly hypertrophy (grow) upon recommencing training. This combined with neuromuscular adaptation leads to some pretty remarkable gains when a former lifter makes a return after a break.

Cheers,
Colin
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Well I learned something new! I'm about 5'10 and 155lbs so 350 was a lot for me! Breaking 500 in deadlift is an accomplishment sir!
 
While we are taking a tour around memory lane I deadlifted 500 at lbs at a bw of 148lbs at meets in PA, MD and NJ from 82-83, My last meet at a bodyweight of 165 I pulled 600 and change just past my knees but could not lock out. Needed it to qualify for the Jr Nationals. Don't ask me the Kilos, I cannot remember.

I quit after that meet due to my impending marriage. That lifestyle and marriage could not co-exist. Have not been in a gym since, since I am so competitive I cannot stand the thought of where I am now.

Had to share in case somebody didn't think I was an athlete.

Colin Colenso said:
That brings back memories. I deadlifted 230kg (504lbs) at 115kgs weight back in 2000 when training for Shot Put & Discus.

A lot of the quick improvement in strength, after one has reached higher levels previously is actually due to hyperplasia, meaning that more muscle fibers have been developed from previous training and they quickly hypertrophy (grow) upon recommencing training. This combined with neuromuscular adaptation leads to some pretty remarkable gains when a former lifter makes a return after a break.

Cheers,
Colin
Click to expand...
 
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Fran Crimi& Drop the Rock have made some really good posts.

I said 'timing' on the first page.

When I was coaching middle school baseball there was a big boy that should have had power to spare but just did not hit the ball with any pop.

I saw the issue & tried to get him to understand with several different ways of explaining it to him to no avail.

I then stepped into the cage & told him what I was going to do & for him to just do what he always does. I then told the pitcher to throw it.

What I did was to hold his bat & actually give it a little pull when he went to swing. He hit the ball over the center field fence & then turned around to me with one of the biggest smiles I'd ever seen.

He was 'spending' the energy too early & wasting it. I delayed it so that it was 'spent' into & through the ball.

I changed his timing. He became a good hitter.

As usual, Ms. Crimi knows what she talks about & it seems that Drop the Rock does too.

I can hear a trolling post on the way.
 
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Tony_in_MD said:
While we are taking a tour around memory lane I deadlifted 500 at lbs at a bw of 148lbs at meets in PA, MD and NJ from 82-83, My last meet at a bodyweight of 165 I pulled 600 and change just past my knees but could not lock out. Needed it to qualify for the Jr Nationals. Don't ask me the Kilos, I cannot remember.

I quit after that meet due to my impending marriage. That lifestyle and marriage could not co-exist. Have not been in a gym since, since I am so competitive I cannot stand the thought of where I am now.

Had to share in case somebody didn't think I was an athlete.
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You must have had an awesome vertical leap!
 
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