Is Max Eberle as big as a goof as I now think?

[ENGLISH!]

Hey, sorry you got busted.....maybe you should follow the Golden Rule instead.

Thanks for the chuckle, John.

I now have a better understanding of you.

You create your own 'reality' & then 'live', discuss, argue, & decide everything based on the 'reality' that you have created for yourself.

That puts the 3 letter thing more in perspective & focus.

Best Wishes.

 

[ENGLISH!]

At the risk of sounding like I'm arguing semantics man did not "create" mathematical principles and truths. Those principles and truths existed independent of our discovering them. We did of course label them and choose the specifics of how to express them and perhaps that is what you were referring to with the word "math" as opposed to the underlying principles themselves.

I think you are arguing semantics.

The physics, the chemical reactions, etc. are real.

We devised 'mathematics'.

We operate in a base 10 math system. We could just have easily chosen a base 12 or 13 system. Math is the language that we use to explain the principles.

Gravity is there, but we chose to measure it in a certain way with a certain mathematical system that WE devised. We have chosen how we measure time. While the chooses that were made certainly seem logical they could have just as easily been different.

The above is what I was 'taught' in my first college Physics class

Please see the conclusion at the end of page 2 below.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/math-concepts/math1.htm

PS Best Wishes.

 

[JB Cases]

Thanks for the chuckle, John.

I now have a better understanding of you.

You create your own 'reality' & then 'live', discuss, argue, & decide everything based on the 'reality' that you have created for yourself.

That puts the 3 letter thing more in perspective & focus.

Best Wishes.

Glad you got it figured out.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I think you are arguing semantics.

The physics, the chemical reactions, etc. are real.

We devised 'mathematics'.

We operate in a base 10 math system. We could just have easily chosen a base 12 or 13 system. Math is the language that we use to explain the principles.

Gravity is there, but we chose to measure it in a certain way with a certain mathematical system that WE devised. We have chosen how we measure time. While the chooses that were made certainly seem logical they could have just as easily been different.

The above is what I was 'taught' in my first college Physics class

Please see the conclusion at the end of page 2 below.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/math-concepts/math1.htm

PS Best Wishes.

I think most of what you said is true except the base 10. I think with this common core crap they are doing now its base 5 lol

 

[PoolBum]

At the risk of sounding like I'm arguing semantics man did not "create" mathematical principles and truths. Those principles and truths existed independent of our discovering them. We did of course label them and choose the specifics of how to express them and perhaps that is what you were referring to with the word "math" as opposed to the underlying principles themselves.

That's not semantics, that's a genuine philosophical question. Most philosophers who have a view about this question agree with you, by the way.

 

[ENGLISH!]

I think most of what you said is true except the base 10. I think with this common core crap they are doing now its base 5 lol

See... now we are getting into the crux of matters.

Some want to teach others to be functional in the reality of the 'times' in which we live.

Others want to find a way to confuse & keep others dependent.

I think 'religion' & politics are at the core of many disagreements here on AZB & not the subject matter under discussion.

Best Wishes.

PS I'm not that familiar with common core but it seems to be still a base 10 but 5 is 1/2 of 10... & 1/2 x 2 = 1 base 10. I'm 62 & we were taught to count 5, 10, 15, 20, etc... We were not taught to count 4, 8, 12, 16, etc... Maybe because there were no $4 bills.:wink:

 

[Neil]

I think you are arguing semantics.

The physics, the chemical reactions, etc. are real.

We devised 'mathematics'.

We operate in a base 10 math system. We could just have easily chosen a base 12 or 13 system. Math is the language that we use to explain the principles.

Gravity is there, but we chose to measure it in a certain way with a certain mathematical system that WE devised. We have chosen how we measure time. While the chooses that were made certainly seem logical they could have just as easily been different.

The above is what I was 'taught' in my first college Physics class

Please see the conclusion at the end of page 2 below.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/math-concepts/math1.htm

PS Best Wishes.

Maybe you should have read past page two before you made your definitive statement.

 

[JB Cases]

Maybe you should have read past page two before you made your definitive statement.

Ouch. The sound of a wooden ruler rapping knuckles reverberates throughout the room.

 

[Poolplaya9]

The physics, the chemical reactions, etc. are real.

We devised 'mathematics'.

We operate in a base 10 math system. We could just have easily chosen a base 12 or 13 system. Math is the language that we use to explain the principles.

Gravity is there, but we chose to measure it in a certain way with a certain mathematical system that WE devised. We have chosen how we measure time. While the chooses that were made certainly seem logical they could have just as easily been different.

The above is what I was 'taught' in my first college Physics class

Please see the conclusion at the end of page 2 below.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/math-concepts/math1.htm

PS Best Wishes.

So it sounds like we pretty much agree and see it the same way. My concern is that that the context of your use of the word "math" might lead to some people reading that to think of math as including the underlying principles themselves, when what you meant was only the way we label, express and choose to calculate those principles. I would have liked to have seen better terminology to avoid the possible confusion on the part of others but perhaps my concerns aren't warranted. I can just see some people reading things like that and saying in their head "see, I knew all this math stuff was just made up and doesn't really describe any actual universal truths".

And again, maybe it is semantics or a really inconsequential point, but I'm not so sure "we devised mathematics" either as you stated in this post. We devised our system of it, as in how we specifically choose to express and measure it, but math exists independent of us.

Like I said I don't think we disagree on the major points at all, my concern is just that terminology such as "man made up math" will be taken by some to mean the principles as opposed to just how we choose to express or measure them.

 

[BmoreMoney]

So it sounds like we pretty much agree and see it the same way. My concern is that that the context of your use of the word "math" might lead to some people reading that to think of math as including the underlying principles themselves, when what you meant was only the way we label, express and choose to calculate those principles. I would have liked to have seen better terminology to avoid the possible confusion on the part of others but perhaps my concerns aren't warranted. I can just see some people reading things like that and saying in their head "see, I knew all this math stuff was just made up and doesn't really describe any actual universal truths".

And again, maybe it is semantics or a really inconsequential point, but I'm not so sure "we devised mathematics" either as you stated in this post. We devised our system of it, as in how we specifically choose to express and measure it, but math exists independent of us.

Like I said I don't think we disagree on the major points at all, my concern is just that terminology such as "man made up math" will be taken by some to mean the principles as opposed to just how we choose to express or measure them.

How bout this ; we discovered math or we rediscovered math.

 

[ENGLISH!]

So it sounds like we pretty much agree and see it the same way. My concern is that that the context of your use of the word "math" might lead to some people reading that to think of math as including the underlying principles themselves, when what you meant was only the way we label, express and choose to calculate those principles. I would have liked to have seen better terminology to avoid the possible confusion on the part of others but perhaps my concerns aren't warranted. I can just see some people reading things like that and saying in their head "see, I knew all this math stuff was just made up and doesn't really describe any actual universal truths".

And again, maybe it is semantics or a really inconsequential point, but I'm not so sure "we devised mathematics" either as you stated in this post. We devised our system of it, as in how we specifically choose to express and measure it, but math exists independent of us.

Like I said I don't think we disagree on the major points at all, my concern is just that terminology such as "man made up math" will be taken by some to mean the principles as opposed to just how we choose to express or measure them.

Well, I can not be totally responsible for what some will incorrectly conclude.

But what would you have me do?

It seems rather pointless to go back now & re word it.

 

[TATE]

Reporting on flatness from my own region, the formula is:

Flat women + savings account > $5,000 = zero

 

[ENGLISH!]

How bout this ; we discovered math or we rediscovered math.

I don't think that is quite accurate.

It was not there in any discernible form for us to discover it. What we discovered was/is there and we then after time labeled it.

I think you may be jumping the gun to a forward point in time.

Go back to where man knew that he had to throw a spear up to defy the gravity that was there. He 'discovered' gravity but he had no mathematical formula to explain it. He knew F = MA when he tackled another while fighting over a female but he had no mathematical formula to explain it to his son. That did not come for some time after.

We use the mathematics that we devised to explain the reality of the world. The principles existed long before we ever assigned any math to them. we define what a foot is as 12 inches. We could have just as easily defines a foot to be 15 inches & then everything would be different in terms of explanation. We defined day as one complete revolution but we could just as easily defined it as 1/2 revolution.

I'm not sure why you want it to be something that always existed or where you're going with it, but if an alien lands here tomorrow do you thing our maths will be the same?

Best Wishes.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I don't think that is quite accurate.

It was not there in any discernible form for us to discover it. What we discovered was/is there and we then after time labeled it.

I think you may be jumping the gun to a forward point in time.

Go back to where man knew that he had to throw a spear up to defy the gravity that was there. He 'discovered' gravity but he had no mathematical formula to explain it. He knew F = MA when he tackled another while fighting over a female but he had no mathematical formula to explain it to his son. That did not come for some time after.

We use the mathematics that we devised to explain the reality of the world. The principles existed long before we ever assigned any math to it.

I'm not sure why you want it to be something that always existed or where you're going with it, but if an alien lands here tomorrow do you thing our maths will be the same?

Best Wishes.

From what I've always heard yes. Always heard math is universal; and the more scientists do experiments and find out about space and what's in it proves that statement or theory again and again.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Reporting on flatness from my own region, the formula is:

Flat women + savings account > $5,000 = zero

How about a Flat Woman with $20,000 = a woman with two size D globes minus the $20,000 when she visits that 'plastic' guy, but later marries that old millionaire who rather quickly dies.

Hence, $20,000 = $1,000,000

See... we devised that. There once was a time when that was not possible for a flat chested woman.

 

[ENGLISH!]

From what I've always heard yes. Always heard math is universal; and the more scientists do experiments and find out about space and what's in it proves that statement or theory again and again.

I think we're not talking about the same thing.

Yes the science principles will be the same because they are real, but the language/math used to explain them will be different for the alien.

Are you saying that an alien from millions of light years away will also have the same base 10 math system & a measurement of 12 inches known as a foot & 5280 of them will equal a mile?

If so, what am I missing?

Math is universal here on this planet because we as human beings devised it. It's like music. It's universal here, but an alien that comes here & plays music may not be able to read our written sheet music. Their written music most certainly would be different even though the physical tones may be the same or... they may hear at a higher or lower frequency level than us then the music tones for them would be totally different.

Best Wishes.

 

[BmoreMoney]

I think we're not talking about the same thing.

Yes the science principles will be the same because they are real, but the language/math used to explain them will be different for the alien.

Are you saying that an alien from millions of light years away will also have the same base 10 math system & a measurement of 12 inches known as a foot & 5280 of them will equal a mile?

If so, what am I missing?

No I am sure it would be called something different but yes principles would be the same.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Maybe you should have read past page two before you made your definitive statement.

The conclusion from page 4:

Regardless, mathematics could stand as humanity's greatest invention. It composes a vital part of our neural architecture and continues to empower us beyond the mental limits we were born with, even as we struggle to fathom its limits.

 

[ENGLISH!]

Ouch. The sound of a wooden ruler rapping knuckles reverberates throughout the room.

The conclusion from page 4:

Regardless, mathematics could stand as humanity's greatest invention. It composes a vital part of our neural architecture and continues to empower us beyond the mental limits we were born with, even as we struggle to fathom its limits.

 

[Neil]

The conclusion from page 4:

Regardless, mathematics could stand as humanity's greatest invention. It composes a vital part of our neural architecture and continues to empower us beyond the mental limits we were born with, even as we struggle to fathom its limits.

Just love how you leave out so much that doesn't fit your statement. And only post things that you think fit what you said. Notice the word "could". Far different from your definitive statement that it does.

Real truth is, they don't know for sure.