All this thread has done for me is want more cues with ivory in it
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200 kg ivory haul may be Gabon's biggest ever
- Thread starter Pangit
- Start date
Ivory
This is yet another example of . . .
"Don't confuse me with the facts - I know what I believe"
It might interest some to know that the majority of ivory "smuggling" relative the the USA market, is individuals trying to get the ivory OUT of the USA . . . since it is worth 6 times more in China than here . . . but does the media and government reporting specifically mention THAT . . . well NO -
Truth be told there is more than enough Ivory already here in the USA to support the needs of all legitimate markets - so PLEASE stop the smuggling OUT of the USA - it depletes our resources - ha
This is yet another example of . . .
"Don't confuse me with the facts - I know what I believe"
It might interest some to know that the majority of ivory "smuggling" relative the the USA market, is individuals trying to get the ivory OUT of the USA . . . since it is worth 6 times more in China than here . . . but does the media and government reporting specifically mention THAT . . . well NO -
Truth be told there is more than enough Ivory already here in the USA to support the needs of all legitimate markets - so PLEASE stop the smuggling OUT of the USA - it depletes our resources - ha
Totally agree. I guess I don't view this as an "American", or "Chinese" or "African" issue. The issue is WORLD CONSUMPTION vs WORLD SUPPLY. There would be no need for illegal ivory if there was enough legal ivory to go around. Clearly, there isn't.
No amount of policies, or policing, will save the elephant. They're "dead species walking". Nothing will save them. And it's 95% the fault of the ivory trade. The "more guns" or "kill the poachers" theory won't work. You're dealing with armies and organized crime. The military approach has been tried before. It failed. Organized crime still exists. Foreign corrupt governments still exist.
The ONLY way to save the elephant is to make the demand for ivory ZERO. But, as long as people want ivory in their cues, or their ornamental art piece on their fireplace mantel, demand will always be there. This won't happen, so the elephant will die, and become extinct.
I'm not trying to talk anyone out of using ivory. I'm merely stating with 100% accuracy that, if you consume ivory, you are directly responsible in some minute way, for the death of an elephant.
Yes, I'm responsible for the death of trees, as I live in a house made of wood. Yes, I own leather shoes, so some poor animal died for those. Yes, I eat meat, so some poor fish, steer, and chicken bit the dust so that I could eat. Yes, I put dead dinosaurs in my gas tank, so that I can go places. None of those facts make me a hypocrite. I haven't had someone kill a Bengal Tiger so that I can have a really cool wrap on my cue, or a funky cue case. I haven't had someone knock off a lion, because I think their tail would look cool on my wall. Everything I have consumed has been out of NEED. I need to eat. I need to feed my children. I need to have shelter. And I rely on renewable resources - livestock, forestation, etc, to provide that to me. I will get an electric car, once they're affordable, and can cover the ranges I need to drive.
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We buy tusks that are documented to have been in this country since before the 1989 ban. We have pictures of many with the harvesting in Africa during the 50's and 60's. We sell this ivory. All other ivory dealers we know can document their ivory equally as well...
Therefore: the ivory we possess, which has been in the country since before the ban and the fact that the elephant was harvested decades ago, we can say with 100% certainty that none of this contributes to any poaching nor being "responsible in some minute way".
Therefore you cannot state, "with 100% accuracy that, if you consume ivory, you are directly responsible in some minute way, for the death of an elephant".
In fact, I can state with 100% accuracy that you are absolutely incorrect in your "100% accuracy".
Enjoy Your Popcorn Here!
Dear Shawn, What happened to my offer of a wager that all elephants in the wild will become extinct by 2020(you said that in one of your rants in a previous thread)? I am guessing you might have seen this "possibility" in one of those group requests for money to save the elephant.
You should quit wasting your typing efforts on this forum as you try to educate us idiots who happen to appreciate ivory in a cue. We are just too far below your intellectual level to appreciate your concern for the CEO salaries of the foundations who want to "save the elephants".
If you spent one tenth of the effort you put forth on these forum threads into trying to truly save the elephants you might accomplish something. Different posters have actually suggested practical and workable ideas to help elephant to survive and thrive. You don't want to hear any of that crap because, in your world, ban is the only solution.
Your harsh rhetoric educates no one and you never have a practical solution to offer-ban, ban,ban, that sums up your ideas.
We get it, you hate ivory possession by anyone and you feel a total ban is the only solution. A number of posts previous you said that that post was your last.
I, for one, am ready for you to be a man of your word!
Have a nice life and please post your rants on another forum.
You should quit wasting your typing efforts on this forum as you try to educate us idiots who happen to appreciate ivory in a cue. We are just too far below your intellectual level to appreciate your concern for the CEO salaries of the foundations who want to "save the elephants".
If you spent one tenth of the effort you put forth on these forum threads into trying to truly save the elephants you might accomplish something. Different posters have actually suggested practical and workable ideas to help elephant to survive and thrive. You don't want to hear any of that crap because, in your world, ban is the only solution.
Your harsh rhetoric educates no one and you never have a practical solution to offer-ban, ban,ban, that sums up your ideas.
We get it, you hate ivory possession by anyone and you feel a total ban is the only solution. A number of posts previous you said that that post was your last.
I, for one, am ready for you to be a man of your word!
Have a nice life and please post your rants on another forum.
I absolutely CAN state that you are somewhat responsible, in the same way that I can 100% state that your G2s were fake.
You have the legal ivory. Which means that someone in China doesn't. They would like the legal ivory, but can't get it because the stockpile is up for sale to the highest bidder in the USA. They still have a demand for ivory. The businesses selling the ivory in the US, which was obtained through a legal bullet penetrating the skull of the elephant, can't export the ivory to China. So China obtains the ivory illegally.
Now, before the spin doctors pull the "A-HA!", there's more. Suppose that the governing agencies make ivory legal for trade in the world, imposing this "pre ban" certification, but that the ivory can be traded around the world....legally. They actually already did this. It still resulted in even more dead elephants. The world need couldn't be met with the existing world supply of "pre ban" ivory. It's wonderful that the US has a conscience, and only uses legal ivory. The rest of the world isn't. So, like it or not, legal consumption fuels illegal consumption.
In any economic model, you rely on two things for trade. Supply and demand. Very easy to understand, Joe. Supply = elephants. Demand = ivory. Pre ban ivory is a FINITE resource. That means there is no more of it than what was on hand as of the 1989 ban. When that finite resource is exhausted, what next? Stop using ivory? If that "pre ban" ivory had been made available to Asia, the supply would have been gone before the year 2000. You're sitting on certified tusks - that's great. Someone else is killing an elephant right now to get ivory because they can't get their hands on that tusk you have.
Small minds don't understand that the two are 100% correlated.
Someone else gave the year of 2020, dick. It wasn't me. Find my post that says elephants will be extinct by 2020. I think you should issue your "challenge" to the guy that actually made the statement.
I love it when idiots call other people "stupid"....
Yup
That's what I seen when I was in China,
It was about a 5 ft long ivory bridge with dragons carved into the side rails and guard shacks on the end with people walking and pushing carts across the bridge.
The workmanship was beautiful or equal to the carving in your picture.
I was totally amazed that so many people in Asian countries made home made amazing art work out of all kinds of materials.
Really?????
That's what I seen when I was in China,
It was about a 5 ft long ivory bridge with dragons carved into the side rails and guard shacks on the end with people walking and pushing carts across the bridge.
The workmanship was beautiful or equal to the carving in your picture.
I was totally amazed that so many people in Asian countries made home made amazing art work out of all kinds of materials.
Actually. I never called you stupid-but, if the shoe fits.
Do the right thing. Quit posting your drivel and start a real effort to save the elephant.
Do the right thing. Quit posting your drivel and start a real effort to save the elephant.
And I would enjoy going back to that thread of so long ago but it has been deleted.
Folks like you who enjoy using words like "dick" for emphasis fall well below my requirements for a worthy intellectual opponent.
Confine your remarks to words for adults or take a mandatory timeout.
Folks like you who enjoy using words like "dick" for emphasis fall well below my requirements for a worthy intellectual opponent.
Confine your remarks to words for adults or take a mandatory timeout.
And if you're a smuggler, why would you even try the US ?
Wait, because cue makers are rich?
And they like green ivory?
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Do the right thing and throw your stupid bet at the guy that made the comment.
And I have. I don't buy ivory
You?
Stuff
I hope you guys are not buying into this thread.
The guy starts threads just to get people into arguments.
I hope you guys are not buying into this thread.
The guy starts threads just to get people into arguments.
But Mike, if we didn't have posts from guys like Shawn, Mr. Wilson would have too much spare time.
There's no argument on my part. I'm just tired of people using me as a target for some displaced anger issues they have.
Use ivory all you want. Bathe in it, for all that I care. Just admit you like ivory, and that elephants pay the price for it. Pretty simple.
It's this rhetoric of some people saying "We're not causing any issues for the survival of elephants" that is laughable. Argue it all you want.
If you're ok with your need for ivory, that's cool. I will not tell you what to do. Just don't hide behind the belief that you aren't contributing to the problem. Go ahead and use the "screw it, they're going to be dead anyways" argument. It holds more merit.
Screw it. They'll be dead anyway b/c ivory powder is viagra to the rich Chinese.
And if you went back to the thread, you'd find it was some other poster that mentioned a date of 2020, but you seemed to hop all over me in that thread, when all I did was post articles from reputable sources about the use of ivory, and the corrupt practices of the trade. You choose to call it drivel, yet you offer NOTHING in terms of support of your stance, aside from a "hey Shawn, do we have a bet?". The reason I don't even think of you as an opponent is that you have contributed absolutely nothing of fact or relevance to the argument. You've cited no resources. Offered no solutions. And haven't addressed the actual issue. Feel free to offer up something of substance, but if all you're going to do is woof and try to challenge me about a bet on a date that someone else said, kindly piss off, go down to your local pool hall, and harass the regulars.
Best post yet. Or, they also use it in religious ornaments as well. I thought it was rhino horn powder that was viagra? Either way, that stance makes more sense than "I'm SAVING the elephants by buying pre ban ivory"
I'm ssaving ma kind from global warming due to elephant poop .Best post yet. Or, they also use it in religious ornaments as well. I thought it was rhino horn powder that was viagra? Either way, that stance makes more sense than "I'm SAVING the elephants by buying pre ban ivory"